Ray Lewis' Dance [Archive] - Baltimore Ravens Message Board & Fan Forum

BaltimoreRon

08-21-2006, 03:44 PM

Steve - WELCOME TO THE BOARD!

There was an aritcle in the Sun after the first preseason game that stated that the fans and some of the players weren't impressed with the 'new' intro. They prefer the players getting introduced individually. I was looking forward to the first time that Steve was announced -- that would have been one huge ovation.

I think we will see the individual player introductions at some point this season and I also think that we will see the Ray dance (in some format) again at some point this season. Before that last game in Miami, perhaps? ;)

BaltimoreRon

08-21-2006, 03:45 PM

Let the man dance if he wants to dance.

That's a perfect quote coming from the man with a T-sizzles avatar. :thumbup:

flraven

08-21-2006, 03:54 PM

I'd like to see the individual intros return too, they do help pump the crowd up. I'm sure HYH is ready to intro Steve McNair, the crowd will go crazy.

Hey Ravefan12 and Steve, welcome to the board!

BirdFan

08-21-2006, 03:59 PM

I don't particularly care about the dance, but they need some sort of finale for the intros. As it is now, the whole thing just peters out and leaves everyone wondering "Is that it?". At least have the team gather up for "What time is it?" or something.

ravensfan1996

08-21-2006, 04:02 PM

I think the Ravens should ask which players want to dance....then the fans vote each week who they want announced last during intro's....that way if the fans keep picking ray....then thats what the fans want.....if they pick stover one week...that would be funny! :)

Art-Florida

08-21-2006, 04:11 PM

Save the spotlight dancing for 'Soul Train', or whatever is the equivalent these days.

Those fans who favor the "Hey, look at me" childishness are the ones that fail to realize that there is a 'me in 'team, but no 'team in 'me.

AZRAVEN

08-21-2006, 05:08 PM

I think if Ray gets to dance then they should let each player dance, lets see, games should probably get started by 5:00 p.m.
I think it's dumb myself but then as we have discussed before on this subject it's seems the team and fans need it to get into the game. Perhaps that explains our problem, when high paid athletes can't get up for doing their job without some spastic gyrations by a self promoting "star" it explains the results the last couple seasons.
I like Ray Lewis on the field but I sure won't miss this semi weekly argument when he's gone. :hammer:

Drkraven

08-21-2006, 05:18 PM

I can actually say I miss they way it pumps up the crowd. After the team intros its like "What Now, we have 2 mins to kill"?:insane: :confused:

Brandon

08-21-2006, 05:38 PM

Whether he dances or not, the RAVENS need to do something to get the crowd pumped up. Seeing that new introduction (and you can see it on the TV screen) sure as heck doesn't get me too excited.

Luker218

08-21-2006, 06:52 PM

I think a good compromise for this would be to go back to the way they did individual introductions before 2002. They announced the whole team with Ray being last. He did his dance with no special music. It would have the same effect on the crowd without having the individualized music that seems to make people so unhappy.

52RAYVENS

08-21-2006, 07:06 PM

Let Ray-Ray dance! It gets us all fired up!:179421:

Ravenatic20

08-21-2006, 07:10 PM

Nothing, I mean nothing gets me more fired up for a game than Ray Ray's dance!

MrsOC

08-21-2006, 07:21 PM

I miss Ray's dance. It definitely gets the crowd fired up. I wouldn't care if every player "did his own thing" when he was introduced. Anything to fire up the crowd. The team intro was boring boring boring. I had nothing to get all goosebumped to.

Raineman

08-21-2006, 07:31 PM

This will be about the 4th or 5th time I have asked.

Could it be we are about to see the "new face" or "new leader" if it happens?

AZRAVEN

08-21-2006, 07:39 PM

I would doubt it, I can't see ray sharing the stage with anyone else. Did you forget he is the team and we don't need anyone else? :eyes:

StingerNLG

08-21-2006, 08:25 PM

You know, I have thought about this long and hard and have tried to stay balanced in my views of Ray Lewis's dance, place on the team, etc:.

My problem is that the team is spending this energy trying to get back into being a TEAM. And yet all of a sudden after Ray left the team and bolted for Florida while the Ravens were struggling, now all of a sudden he's back and once again he's "The General" and everyone just follows him??

This already starts to bother me. Enough of the "me me me". It's time for this team to be exactly that, a team. There is going to be a point, even if it's not right now, that the other players in the locker room are going to get tired of all this.

So for me, no thanks for the dance. Get out on the field and dominate and you'll see the electricity in the stadium.

AZRAVEN

08-21-2006, 09:20 PM

:iagree: That is what I have a problem with also Stringer. I admire Ray's skill, I have rooted for him the whole time he's been a Raven but the attitude I saw from him last season, to me, makes his "generalship" a sham. You just don't cut and run when the team sucks! I know it's a new season, he's kissed and made up with everyone so we are all supposed to just forget it happened.. Sorry, just can't do that he will have to prove to me as a fan that he's what he has always pretended to be. Til then, I'd rather not be subjected to that silly dance that has been parodied by practically everyone in the league.

Dusty728

08-21-2006, 09:28 PM

Just out of curiosity lets check something.
Everyone post either Love It or Hate It about Rays dance along with your age.
I want to see if it falls just like TD celebrations with most people 45 and younger loving it and the older hating it.

I'll start

I LOVE IT 40yrs old

purplepoe

08-21-2006, 09:51 PM

Man, it's unreal how some people make a bigger deal out of the dance than what it is.

IT'S FOR THE FANS.

It gets the stadium fired up.

Stop making a mountain out of a molehill.

Why do you think they are going to bring back individual intros etc....?

Because of the feedback from the fans about their lame preseason intros.

This whole league is full of egos on EVERY team.

The "team" intro was done by the Pats and has been played out more than the Ray dance for god sakes.

Really guys, do you think the team is gonna be divided because of Ray's dance? Are guys not gonna give their all because of a pre-game intro?

Again, it's part of the gameday experience and it really sets the tone for the game.

If the team decides it's time to end the dance, then so be it.

But let's not make it something it's not.

PP

TTRaven

08-21-2006, 10:00 PM

The dance is just played out. It was fun while it lasted, but it's time to move on. Once T.O. and then Kevin Jones mocked it, it was time to shut it down. I would much rather see the team come out as the Baltimore Ravens instead of individual players.

AZRAVEN

08-21-2006, 10:05 PM

There were supposedly some players last year who were upset about the dance, and there was some speculation that it was one of the "issues" in the locker room but since I wasn't in the locker room I wouldn't know for sure. I highly doubt it caused any player to not give his best on the field. They'll do whatever they'll do so it's probably not worth even discussing. Personal opinion, he looks like an idiot and I wish he would just stop it but that's just me.

DrUnk

08-21-2006, 10:15 PM

My personal opinion is varied; I think it was great to pump the crowd up, but in recent years, I think it has gotten a bit old. Flame away, but in years past, opponents were scared sh*tless of Ray and then it was kinda cool. Now, he still goes through the same schtick, and he is not feared like he used to be. I doubt TO would have mocked him 5 years ago, because he knew he would get cut in half. He used to have guys crying/refusing to play, i.e. Eddie George, Corey Dillon, and now guys mock him (TO). IMO, it's a little weak, if you don't show that same bravado on the field. (and yes, I do realize that he isn't all to blame for that)

StingerNLG

08-21-2006, 10:31 PM

Why do you think they are going to bring back individual intros etc....?

Because of the feedback from the fans about their lame preseason intros.

Vast difference between individual intros, and a whole seperate intro for Ray. Apples and oranges IMO.

I have no problem with the individual intros, because they were still done together, with the same music, and the same video.

And I'm all for letting Ray be last if he wants. Fine. He can even dance. But I think it's time to retire having his own seperate entrance apart from the rest of the team. Why is that a big problem?

I got pumped up when the Gladiator music came on, and Maximus was making his speech on the screen. That got me pumped. "Let's get ready to rumble" as the opposing team kicked off to us got me pumped up. I'm not going to be any less excited on opening day against the Raiders because Ray didn't have his "Hot in Here" moment.

That's all I'm sayn' :beer1:

Art-Florida

08-22-2006, 05:33 AM

UKRavenStockers

08-22-2006, 05:39 AM

I'm 20 and going to my first game in September as most folks know.

Whilst I can understand why it may grate on some folks after a while, I want to see it for myself just once, so I hope it comes back for the home opener this year.

purplepoe

08-22-2006, 07:26 AM

I hold it in utter contempt (over 45)

Don't you also want Ray and Jamal out of here?

Have you ever been to a Ravens game to see the dance?

PP

Ravensarge

08-22-2006, 07:47 AM

Enough of the dance. I've been a season ticket holder since the get-go. Where it was entertaining for quite a long time, it would be nice to cheer for J.O. or Jamal after all these years.

crazyraven

08-22-2006, 10:09 AM

If ray was dancing over somebody say after a sack like Mark Gastineau used to then I would say the dance doesn't belong and its selfish but this is before the game. It gets the crowd pumped. It is apparent to me that the FO, Players and the fans love the dance.

Maybe there is some individual goal or team milestone that needs to be triggered--regardless--the way I see it, it's coming back this season, its just a matter of when.

funkmd

08-22-2006, 10:29 AM

I personally love the dance and count on it as part of my stadium experience and makes the ticket price that much more worth it. The new stadium intro is not only lame but actually very uncool. I was watching with a buddy who noted "How is a room full of guys curling weights supposed to excite the crowd? The whole thing is gay" He is a Skins fan, but I have to agree. The intro is VERY weak and laughable. It is downright embarrassing. Ray brings the crowd to their feet, case closed.

hurting

08-22-2006, 10:36 AM

"Like it" (Under 45 by a little bit {41})

Art-Florida

08-22-2006, 11:02 AM

Don't you also want Ray and Jamal out of here?

Have you ever been to a Ravens game to see the dance?

PP

Correct. I've never made a secret of the fact that I believe this team will be better off when it finally becomes 'Lewis-free'. The sooner the better.

Have you ever been to Argentina? Me either. Total non sequitor.

GreenWave52

08-22-2006, 11:11 AM

Love it (25 years old).

What's intersting is I don't particularly care for all the showboating and the TD celebrations. I see the dance as different. It is a way to pump up the crowd, pump up the team, and tell our enemies that this is our house. Outside of pumping up the crowd, it probably has little impact on the outcome of the game. Still, I like how it is unique an purely a Ravens/Baltimore thing.

I just don't see the advantage of coming out as a team. The players don't like it, the majority of fans clearly think its underwhelming, and it is no different then everyother generic team intro. Just because we haven't made the playoffs the last 2 years doesn't mean we have to scrap everything we have done before and change for the sake of change.

StingerNLG

08-22-2006, 12:07 PM

Wait. How do we know the players don't like it? I've read rumors and musings that the players no longer liked the dance. But I've yet to read or hear from anyone close to the Ravens that have said the players want Ray's dance back. Nor have I read about Bisciotti or the FO wanting it back. All I've seen is that some fans want it back.

Dabruise

08-22-2006, 03:15 PM

How about if Ray does a new dance? The itself dance is played out. The Player's schtick is played out IMO. So how about something that represents the team effort that it will take to win. How about something creative that involves the whole team or at lease a few select members maybe different every week.

Ray is living more for the "hisness" of this team and fans than for the game. I'm a little taken aback that he wants to do that dance. What happens when he gets punked by some RBs like he did against Eddie George 2 years ago?
Ray shoudl shut up and play.

Purpleguy

08-22-2006, 03:42 PM

crazyraven

08-22-2006, 04:17 PM

The only musing that have been read have been from message boards posters with absolutely no credibility other than a posters angst for Ray Lewis.

Wait. How do we know the players don't like it?
That's Easy. It's because Ray said so

Seriously you should review the quotes that I have attached to this message from this article from Jamison (And since we are all civil on this side of the Internet I have even provided documentation for those interested in reading the entire article, it starts on page two so you may want to click the number 1 to read from the beginning http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/football/bal-sp.ravens17aug17,0,1659343.story?page=2&track=rss):

The Ravens had planned on sticking with a team introduction for the entire season, but fans and players alike gave it a lukewarm reception at the preseason opener. Team officials said they likely will return to announcing individual starters because there has been a groundswell of support from players to do so.

"My teammates look for that," Lewis said of the dance. "It says this is our battle line. This is our general. And we follow. When I come out, that's the mind-set."

Like i said in an earlier message, its just a matter of when he will do it not if.

Losac

08-22-2006, 04:23 PM

"My teammates look for that," Lewis said of the dance. "It says this is our battle line. This is our general. And we follow. When I come out, that's the mind-set."

Whatever, Ray. :eyes:

Just shut up and play!

Kaven

08-22-2006, 04:32 PM

Save it for a more effective time later in the year.

purplepoe

08-22-2006, 04:52 PM

LOL, how silly is it to be talking about the "dance", like it's in the playbook?

I'm 34, hate the dance, and would also like for the team to be "Lewis free". The defense played fine without Ray last year, and the offense played like shit with Jamal, so I don't see either of them being major contributors anymore.

Opening drive TDs get me fired up. I say the team works more on that and less on the pregame special effects.

1. I agree that the dance is overblown. I just think it's been overblown in the sense that people think it's divided the team when really it just gets the crowd pumped up.

2. The Ravens rush D with Ray Lewis was better than without him. Sure, Scott stepped up nicely but there's no way this D is better without him than with him. Jamal wasn't healthy last season and please tell me a RB that would've done anything worth mentioning with Boller and Wright at the helm along with the horrid line play. If neither Lewis is a major contributor, I'd be surprised and be right here eating crow.

3. Opening drive TDs get me fired up too. And of course the team works more on that than a pregame dance. That's my whole point. The dance is for the fans. It's as simple as that.

Have you ever been to Argentina? Me either. Total non sequitor.

Nope, never been. Which is why I don't have an opinion on Argentina. Again, have you ever been to a Ravens game to see the dance?

PP

AZRAVEN

08-22-2006, 04:53 PM

Well if the "general" is gonna dance he had better stick around when/if the going gets a little tough.

crazyraven

08-22-2006, 05:32 PM

Well if the "general" is gonna dance he had better stick around when/if the going gets a little tough.
Agreed but ray has shown contrition. if he does it again we need to take him out to the wood shed.

StingerNLG

08-22-2006, 06:19 PM

"My teammates look for that," Lewis said of the dance. "It says this is our battle line. This is our general. And we follow. When I come out, that's the mind-set."

That's the very attitude I am tired of. All of a sudden he thinks everyone sees him as the star of the team and "The General"?

Tell you what. When Mason, or Suggs, or Heap, or Reed comes out and says they want the dance back, then I'll believe there is this "groundswell" from the players that they want it.

crazyraven

08-22-2006, 08:37 PM

Tell you what. When Mason, or Suggs, or Heap, or Reed comes out and says they want the dance back, then I'll believe there is this "groundswell" from the players that they want it.

Why Isnt it enough that it was reported from Team Officials that the players want it? Jamison has been straight with us, I mean, he's no mike preston, right?. The Guys you mentioned have all gone on the record saying that they love playing with ray and all get along with him. I'm sure those guys wouldn't stand in the way of a little home town fun and tradition.

DrUnk

08-22-2006, 08:46 PM

[QUOTE=StingerNLG]That's the very attitude I am tired of. All of a sudden he thinks everyone sees him as the star of the team and "The General"?

Exactly. IMHO, I want to see more of that on the field, and less of the showboating. Once again, a couple of years ago, TO wouldn't have mocked Ray, because of what he did on the field, but now, IMO, it is more about "Hollywood", then what he has done on the field.

purplepoe

08-22-2006, 08:50 PM

Ugh.

It's for the fans guys.

Stop translating it to on the field play.

PP

Tspot-D-Ravenator

08-22-2006, 09:01 PM

43 yrs old and I love it! It gets the fans ALL FIRED UP:taz: :rocking: :banana: :roll:

StingerNLG

08-22-2006, 09:16 PM

Why Isnt it enough that it was reported from Team Officials that the players want it? Jamison has been straight with us, I mean, he's no mike preston, right?. The Guys you mentioned have all gone on the record saying that they love playing with ray and all get along with him. I'm sure those guys wouldn't stand in the way of a little home town fun and tradition.

So who are these "Team Officials" then? Seriously, it's always a joke to me to hear the "unnamed source" say things.

And playing with Ray and watching him get the spotlight each weak are two different things. When I hear those guys say they love the dance, then I'll believe they love it.

It's for the fans guys.

Stop translating it to on the field play.

You don't know that it's not translating on the field yet.

DrUnk

08-22-2006, 09:37 PM

Ugh.

It's for the fans guys.

Stop translating it to on the field play.

PP

I agree, that it is/was for the fans, but it has grown larger than life, and I, and alot of other peole, think that it has become a distraction to (rightly or wrongly, and not all his fault) the rest of the team. It isn't all his fault, but the team has been alienated. BB dismissed this rumor all of last year, but then admitted it after the season ended. It may, or may not, be all of the attention that Ray seeks/gets, but there was definitely a rift (and not the MBOD kind), but this team really needs to focus on the team, and not individual notoriety. We all saw what happened when the defense came out with this big reputation over the last few years, but didn't back it up. It doesn't matter, if you have Ray, Deion, Reed, etc., if you go out on the field, and don't wrap up the opponent. Not just picking on Ray either, because Reed seems to fall into this sometimes also. You can't just go up and hit an opponent with your chest, and think you are the shit. You need to hit the bastard, and wrap him up with your arms. Your reputation ain't gonna tackle the guy, it's what you do on the field. Sorry for the rant.

purplepoe

08-23-2006, 07:39 AM

You don't know that it's not translating on the field yet.

You're right, I don't know for sure.

But IMO, it doesn't translate onto the field.

Look, the dance might be gone and it's absolutely not the end of the world. I'd be a bit disappointed but would get over it easily.

I just think this whole discussion about it has gone far beyond what the dance is/was and its effect on the team.

PP

crazyraven

08-23-2006, 09:05 AM

So who are these "Team Officials" then? Seriously, it's always a joke to me to hear the "unnamed source" say things.

Who knows who the "Team Officials" are but this is in the Baltimore Sun not a website like profootballtalk.com (where rumors are reality to them) so to some degree we have to believe that that author of the article did some leg work and has spoke to someone with the Ravens who wanted to be anonymous.

When I hear those guys say they love the dance, then I'll believe they love it.

For me the article is more than enough to believe that the team wants to see it at some point. I guess we will find out by the end of the season.

Greg

08-23-2006, 09:25 AM

I like the dance but understand the issues it causes, such as making Ray the center of attention instead of the team. I think we should go back to intros but put the dance on hold. But if they have it for opening day I wouldn't mind.

StingerNLG

08-23-2006, 09:30 AM

Who knows who the "Team Officials" are but this is in the Baltimore Sun not a website like profootballtalk.com

We're also talking about the Baltimore Sun, a paper that you have to figure out when to believe and when not to believe. And keep in mind these aren't neuclear secrets bring told to anyone. It's not like you have to have an anonymous source because this would be some attack on other players on the team. This isn't the "Mike Preston Mole" anymore.

You'd think if the players wanted the dance, they'd have no problem telling that to the media specifically, especially if they saw it as a positive or thought the team or fans would benefit from it.

RavenMad2099

08-23-2006, 10:08 AM

For crying out loud...

I’ve attended games, and the stadium ERUPTS when Ray does the dance…so I’d say the vast majority of people who attend love it. It’s part of the experience of being there, as opposed to merely watching it on TV or ranting on a message board.

As for the players, I really don’t care whether they like it or not. They are professionals. They get paid to play a game and play it well. If some of them hate the dance, that’s tough. They have to produce no matter how they feel about it, and that’s what we should all expect.

Maybe I can give a whining player a list of the shit I don't like that I put up with every day...then we can compare and see how it stacks up to standing on a football field for ten seconds while Ray does a few moves.

crazyraven

08-23-2006, 10:33 AM

You'd think if the players wanted the dance, they'd have no problem telling that to the media specifically, especially if they saw it as a positive or thought the team or fans would benefit from it.

I'd think if that was reported by the sun some people would still have a hard time believing it. The next response would be, well what else are they going to say the players arent going to throw Ray under the bus....and the so it goes

StingerNLG

08-23-2006, 10:48 AM

I'd think if that was reported by the sun some people would still have a hard time believing it. The next response would be, well what else are they going to say the players arent going to throw Ray under the bus....and the so it goes

I'd agree with that. My only point was that it's easier to believe when it's Ed Reed saying "Bring on the dance, that's how I get pumped up!" than if someone who doesn't want his name mentioned hints that "some players like it, I think."

I’ve attended games, and the stadium ERUPTS when Ray does the dance…so I’d say the vast majority of people who attend love it. It’s part of the experience of being there, as opposed to merely watching it on TV or ranting on a message board.

True. And of course people are going to go crazy, it's ambience. Just like the crowd yells "HEEEEEEEEEEP" every time he touches the ball. But you know what else makes the stadium erupt? Touchdowns. How about Ray hitting someone so hard he jars the football loose? An interception (especially for a touchdown). If we're hinging the game on whether Ray does his dance, or if Ray's dance causes less penalties like we saw on Thursday night, then this team is in more trouble than we might want to believe.

To me, it's a matter of whether we're still talking about the Baltimore Ravens, or are we back to Ray Lewis and the Baltimore Ravens where Ray is "The General", and everyone else is just another player following him around. I am starting to think it's as simple as that. IMO of course.

RavenMad2099

08-23-2006, 10:58 AM

If we're hinging the game on whether Ray does his dance, or if Ray's dance causes less penalties like we saw on Thursday night, then this team is in more trouble than we might want to believe.
Who said anything about hinging the game on Ray's dance?
I made it pretty clear that the dance is part of the entertainment experience of attending in person...and contrary to popular belief, sports is entertainment.

To me, it's a matter of whether we're still talking about the Baltimore Ravens, or are we back to Ray Lewis and the Baltimore Ravens where Ray is "The General", and everyone else is just another player following him around.
Ray Lewis is the leader of the defense. If you don't believe me, take it up with Brian Billick, Rex Ryan, Ed Reed, and any number of people within the Ravens organization who have said the same thing this year.

Like I said, these guys are supposed to be professionals. If they have a personal issue with another player, it's up to them to perform anyway. They are getting paid millions of dollars to do so. What's more, we are the ones paying their salaries (as you used to be so fond of saying), and if the majority of us like Ray's dance and get fired up by it, it's up to them to deal with it.

If our season is dependent on pampering players' feelings like they are all five years old, we're screwed anyway. There will be real adversity during the regular season, and anger over Ray's dance and it's effect on "the team" is just an excuse.

AZRAVEN

08-23-2006, 11:30 AM

[QUOTE=RavenMad2099]
If our season is dependent on pampering players' feelings like they are all five years old, we're screwed anyway.

Oh, I think we already are pampering one specific player who has an insatiable need to be the center of attention at all times and at all costs like a five year old. :laugh:

RAVENOUS52

08-23-2006, 11:31 AM

The Dance is to Ray Lewis what black hightops were to Johnny Unitas...
It's tradition, so let's just sit back and enjoy it at some point during the season.

RavenMad2099

08-23-2006, 11:54 AM

Oh, I think we already are pampering one specific player who has an insatiable need to be the center of attention at all times and at all costs like a five year old.
If the fans at the stadium sat on their hands or booed while Ray Lewis did his dance, I'd agree with you.

As it is, I only see a few disgruntled message board fans who want Bisciotti and the rest of the FO to coddle a couple of jealous players at everyone else's expense.

If you ask me, the the players who've complained are the ones without the team's interests at heart. Everybody else knows how much the dance pumps up the 12th man.

Sports Steve

08-23-2006, 12:10 PM

Yes it does pump up the 12th man.

:jester: :jester: :thumbup:

AZRAVEN

08-23-2006, 12:11 PM

purplepoe

08-23-2006, 12:17 PM

I'm curious to see what happens to the "12th man" when Ray Lewis either moves on to another team or retires. Can we expect the stadium to become like a library because Ray won't be there to dance for you and let you know it's gametime? :laugh:

First of all, there have been many games over the past few years where Ray and the defense haven't been introduced and everything went just fine.

What part don't some of you understand?

When Ray does the dance, the crowd gets more fired up than when the offense or special teams does.

It's a fact. It doesn't mean the fans sit in silence when Ray doesn't get introduced. I keep reading people talk about this and it's annoying and insulting to be honest.

I go to every game and cheer the same whether or not Ray gets introduced. The idea of linking Ray's intro to the amount of cheering during the actual game is ridiculous.

Ray's dance, like 2099 said, is part of the entertainment of gameday. Nothing more.

No teammate will nor should come out unsolicited and say "Yea, I love Ray's dance and hope he does it". It's not their responsibility. If Hemsley or someone ask's them about it, then their comments will be noted.

Again, some people are completely missing the point of the dance and making it into some much more than it really is.

PP

Losac

08-23-2006, 12:23 PM

Again, some people are completely missing the point of the dance and making it into some much more than it really is.
Yes they are. That's why there's now 4 pages to this thread.

The point is that we are now a 6-10 team and to have this kind of showboating is a little silly. I could also do without the defense clapping and celebrating for tackles 5 yards downfield.

AZRAVEN

08-23-2006, 01:01 PM

Art-Florida

08-23-2006, 01:19 PM

I'm sorry if holding a view you don't agree with insults you.

Amen. Just another instance of people using the 2nd person singular in an inappropriate forum. That's what killed YBR.

crazyraven

08-23-2006, 01:36 PM

AZ you've only seen it once, assuming that you dont fly into Baltimore to see the ravens play, how do you know what its like when Ray doesnt do the Dance? It's not as loud when he doesnt dance. I could refer to the article which said the team introductions received a "lukewarm reception" or I could also tell you from my own experience that the reception is nothing compared to when Ray comes out of that tunnel and does his thing.

Also If you watch the bulk of the games on TV the Dance shouldnt really affect you. :thumbup:

AZRAVEN

08-23-2006, 02:26 PM

That is correct, I've only seen it in person once. I do watch all the games on NFL ticket so you are correct again it does not directly affect me. I was expressing an opinion based on the six gazillion times I have seen the spastic chicken replayed in everything Raven related. You are correct again, I do not know first hand what it is like when he doesn't dance. I am perfectly happy to concede it is not as loud I'm not sure that not being a PSL owner and season ticket holder should preclude me from having an opinion. I have seen the dance, I think it is phoney and contrived and for me it adds nothing, if that's what it takes to get others psyched for the game so be it.

purplepoe

08-23-2006, 02:58 PM

While I agree the discussion can be annoying as most discussions can be at times, I'm not sure why it would be deemed insulting. It seems to have been a pretty civil discourse presenting opposing views on the topic. I have only seen Ray's dance in person at Ravens stadium one time but wasn't impressed, that's my view just as those who live for his dance are expressing their view there really is no right or wrong on the issue. I'm sorry if holding a view you don't agree with insults you.

Im not insulted one bit that you hold a different view of Ray's dance then mine. And I don't think you were be malicious in your comments. What I find annoying and a bit insulting is this post you made.

I'm curious to see what happens to the "12th man" when Ray Lewis either moves on to another team or retires. Can we expect the stadium to become like a library because Ray won't be there to dance for you and let you know it's gametime? :laugh:

I dont "need" Ray or anyone else to do anything to let me know it's gametime. Alot of us just enjoy his intro and the effect it has on the crowd. That's it. Plain and simple. I can easily separate an intro before the game and the actual play on the field. They aren't related at all IMO.

And again, there have been numerous games over the last few season where Ray hasn't come out of the tunnel by himself for the intro. The crowd isn't as excited at that point. But when kickoff time arrives, it's all the same. People cheering ready to watch some football.

Amen. Just another instance of people using the 2nd person singular in an inappropriate forum. That's what killed YBR.

No, what killed YBR were blatant personal attacks and namecalling. Neither of which is going on here on this thread or this board.

PP

AZRAVEN

08-23-2006, 03:52 PM

[QUOTE=purplepoe]Im not insulted one bit that you hold a different view of Ray's dance then mine. And I don't think you were be malicious in your comments. What I find annoying and a bit insulting is this post you made.

I'm sorry that post insulted you, I thought the inclusion of a laughing smiley was sufficient to make clear it was intended as a joke... apparently not, so I apologize for the offense it is not my intention to have "issues" with anyone here.

purplepoe

08-23-2006, 04:09 PM

[QUOTE=purplepoe]
I'm sorry that post insulted you, I thought the inclusion of a laughing smiley was sufficient to make clear it was intended as a joke... apparently not, so I apologize for the offense it is not my intention to have "issues" with anyone here.

Eh, maybe Im being oversensitive.

I definitely don't have issues with you and don't anticipate any in the future.

This whole dance thing is really a non-issue in the big scheme of things but seems to strike a chord with alot of us.

Winning games cures alot. Let's hope we can start doing that.

PP

StingerNLG

08-23-2006, 04:26 PM

This whole dance thing is really a non-issue in the big scheme of things but seems to strike a chord with alot of us.

Very true. But I'll say this. If Ray didn't leave the team and head to Florida last year, I don't think this would strike a chord with anyone. The question at hand is about the unity of the team and how they perceive themselves to the fans.

Winning games cures alot. Let's hope we can start doing that.

Amen

Ray Lewis is the leader of the defense. If you don't believe me, take it up with Brian Billick, Rex Ryan, Ed Reed, and any number of people within the Ravens organization who have said the same thing this year.

No one said he wasn't the leader of the defense. But last year the Ravens media guy (Kevin something-or-other) came out to the members of the press and told them that Ray no longer wanted to be the face of the team. That is a fact, and that was reported by both WNST and ESPN1300 last year. Casey said it, Viviano said it. That is a pretty significant difference.

RavenMad2099

08-24-2006, 11:26 AM

But last year the Ravens media guy (Kevin something-or-other) came out to the members of the press and told them that Ray no longer wanted to be the face of the team.
...and yet you're bashing him for not being a "team" guy?

As you acknowledge, Ray is the leader of the defense. That's the role he wants to play, but he's been elevated to face of the team by ineptitude on the O's side of the ball. It's really too bad that we haven't had anyone over there who could legitimately claim to be a leader or a face of the team (until this year), but that's hardly Ray's fault. He carried the O on his back for a long time, and the weight eventually became too heavy. We can all see the results in a W/L record that gets progressively worse with every passing season. The D can't do it alone. I don't blame him for getting frustrated...it was way past time for someone on the O to step up.

In fact, I remember several people bashing him for recruiting McNair in the first place. I guess some fans want it both ways...so which is it? Is he a selfish me-guy who only cares about himself and his dance, or is he someone who cares enough to get frustrated and actively try to improve the team?

That "face of the team" argument frequently gets dragged out as a last resort when it becomes clear how important Ray is to the franchise (and the fans). I just don't get what it has to do with his dance. He's not doing it when they introduce the offense, is he?

RAVENOUS52

08-24-2006, 11:59 AM

This year, I plan on leading the entire tailgate area in the Ray Lewis dance before each homegame I attend...Everyone who doesn't dance has to down 3 straight shots of Ouzo...

AZRAVEN

08-24-2006, 12:04 PM

Glad I don't party with you guys... three shots of ouzo and I'd be face down in the parking lot and never see the game.. Of course, I would at least miss Ray's dance. :laugh: (laughing smiley indicates the preceeding comments were intended as a JOKE and should, therefore, not be taken seriously)

Greg

08-24-2006, 12:40 PM

This year, I plan on leading the entire tailgate area in the Ray Lewis dance before each homegame I attend...Everyone who doesn't dance has to down 3 straight shots of Ouzo...
After the 3 shots you might get be to do the dance. But if you want people to dance why are you rewarding them for not.

StingerNLG

08-24-2006, 02:05 PM

...and yet you're bashing him for not being a "team" guy?

Uhhh, I'm bashing him for trying to be an on-again-off-again "leader" who bolted the state when his team was struggling and couldn't even talk to his "big brother" Deion Sanders, but now all of a sudden he's back and "The General" and "everyone just follows me". That's what my issue is.

That's the role he wants to play, but he's been elevated to face of the team by ineptitude on the O's side of the ball.

Elevated by who? The FO? The fans? Who? Seems to me Ray wanted that elevation just as much as everyone else.

That "face of the team" argument frequently gets dragged out as a last resort when it becomes clear how important Ray is to the franchise (and the fans).

Ummm, how important is Ray to me? With all due respect Ray is one out of 11 players out there if I remember correctly. The TEAM is important to me, not Ray Lewis. If Ray Lewis wasn't on the field this year, that wouldn't do anything for my being a Ravens fan. Sorry, but it doesn't. I simply choose not to worship him, that's all.

RavenMad2099

08-24-2006, 02:46 PM

Uhhh, I'm bashing him for trying to be an on-again-off-again "leader" who bolted the state when his team was struggling and couldn't even talk to his "big brother" Deion Sanders, but now all of a sudden he's back and "The General" and "everyone just follows me". That's what my issue is.
When has he ever been on the field and not been the leader of our D? Most of the time, he was the leader of the entire damn team!!! Besides, there is a difference between on-the-field leader and public "face of the team." One has to do with the sports media and public image, and the other has to do with the game.

Here comes the "why did he abandon the team when he was injured last year" post, I'm sure.

Elevated by who? The FO? The fans? Who? Seems to me Ray wanted that elevation just as much as everyone else.
The FO? Yes
The fans? Yes
...and you forgot the players and the sports media.
The answer to both of those is "yes" also.

His persona, his drive, his talent, his ability, and dominance on the field all contributed to that.
That's what happens when you play a popular sport. Peyton Manning, for example, is the face of the Colts, not necessarily because he chose to be, but because he is an extremely talented player who also happens to be the leader of his team. If we.....err, nevermind: wrong thread. Our best player and leader for the past ten years has happened to be a linebacker.

Ummm, how important is Ray to me? With all due respect Ray is one out of 11 players out there if I remember correctly. The TEAM is important to me, not Ray Lewis. If Ray Lewis wasn't on the field this year, that wouldn't do anything for my being a Ravens fan. Sorry, but it doesn't. I simply choose not to worship him, that's all.
Well...the team, the coaches, and the FO all disagree with you about the importance of Ray Lewis, and I'll leave it at that.

AZRAVEN

08-24-2006, 03:34 PM

[QUOTE=RavenMad2099]When has he ever been on the field and not been the leader of our D? Most of the time, he was the leader of the entire damn team!!! Besides, there is a difference between on-the-field leader and public "face of the team." One has to do with the sports media and public image, and the other has to do with the game.

Here comes the "why did he abandon the team when he was injured last year" post, I'm sure.

Are you denying that Ray Lewis bailed on this team last year, 2099? Are you denying that Ray's personna totally changed last year? I'm just asking and trying to figure out where you're coming from not trying to start a fight.

Losac

08-24-2006, 03:43 PM

Well...the team, the coaches, and the FO all disagree with you about the importance of Ray Lewis, and I'll leave it at that.
So should the Ravens just give up and get ready for years of mediocrity once Ray retires?

StingerNLG

08-24-2006, 04:10 PM

Here comes the "why did he abandon the team when he was injured last year" post, I'm sure.

Well it does follow the "that's a valid arguement so I better try to make it not valid" post. I don't get how his bailing to Florida in the middle of a 6-10 season, or not talking to his teammates, or basically shunning the city until he decided he wanted to be the general again, somehow didn't happen or doesn't have an effect on his teammates. Only to those who worship Ray Lewis did this not mean anything.

Besides, there is a difference between on-the-field leader and public "face of the team." One has to do with the sports media and public image, and the other has to do with the game.

Then why do you care about his dance?

Well...the team, the coaches, and the FO all disagree with you about the importance of Ray Lewis, and I'll leave it at that.

So you basically have to worship him is what you're saying? You go right ahead.

RavenMad2099

08-24-2006, 04:10 PM

So should the Ravens just give up and get ready for years of mediocrity once Ray retires?
Did I say that?
Someone will have to fill his shoes as a leader, however. My guess is that it will be Ed Reed. I don't see anyone else currently on our roster filling that role five years from now, do you?

Are you denying that Ray Lewis bailed on this team last year, 2099? Are you denying that Ray's personna totally changed last year? I'm just asking and trying to figure out where you're coming from not trying to start a fight.
I think he had surgery, attended a local football game, and then the local media and several YBR posters had hissy fits. I also believe he became frustrated with our offense and the lack of progress shown by the player we're not allowed to discuss.

Ray and the rest of the D have been carrying the load around here far too long, and his personal window is closing. From sitting near the bench on a few occasions and watching players come off the field, I think the OL and the rest of the offense felt the same as Ray.

Speaking of the media, I still believe that all the controversy was mainly created by a bunch of local media types who were upset that he wasn't talking to them. The irony lies in the fact that their reaction demonstrates why.

The coaches and players have all voiced support for Ray this year, and praised his leadership abilities...perhaps because of the news stories, perhaps not. Either way, some people feel the need to engage in a Ray-bash every time his name comes up. I'm just happy he's healthy, and I look forward to watching him play...and I also say they should let him dance.

Then why do you care about his dance?
Go back and read my previous posts if you want to know.
I'm not repeating myself or going in circles.

So you basically have to worship him is what you're saying? You go right ahead.
That's the second time (by my count) that you've said something that was specifically designed to piss me off. I don't like your use of the second person singular, and I like the snarking little exaggerations even less. Weren't you pimping the civil tone around here? I guess that only lasts until someone disagrees with you. If you can't respond to my arguments without getting sarcastic and misrepresenting what I wrote, just move on.

Let me say this: I find it ironic that one player deserves our undying loyalty despite glaring ineptitude just because he's a Raven...but Ray is in for a bashing every time his name comes up. So don't talk to me about worshipping anyone. Ray's produced for this team and this city. As I said before, the majority of fans like the dance. If you don't, deal with it. It's not your decision anyway.

RAVENOUS52

08-24-2006, 04:45 PM

It's pointless to argue: Ray Lewis IS back and Ray Lewis WILL do his dance and excite HIS crowd and teammates come gameday.

RavenMad2099

08-24-2006, 04:49 PM

It's pointless to argue: Ray Lewis IS back and Ray Lewis WILL do his dance and excite HIS crowd and teammates come gameday.
I agree, so I'm done with this thread.
If other people want to make childish jabs about how supporting a leader of this team equates to "worshipping" him, that's their bad. I won't be the one to drag this new place down by responding any further.

StingerNLG

08-24-2006, 05:05 PM

That's the second time (by my count) that you've said something that was specifically designed to piss me off. I don't like your use of the second person singular, and I like the snarking little exaggerations even less.

Oh, and your "Here comes the "why did he abandon the team when he was injured last year" post, I'm sure" post had no intent on pissing me off. RM, I don't care if you get pissed off about it or not. If it's pissing you off, then apparently it seems to hit home doesn't it?

I guess that only lasts until someone disagrees with you. If you can't respond to my arguments without getting sarcastic and misrepresenting what I wrote, just move on.

Let me repeat who threw the first punch:
""Here comes the "why did he abandon the team when he was injured last year" post"

You have described yourself to a tee RM. Things haven't changed much with you from YBR it seems. You've been the one that has been upset because we don't agree that Ray Lewis gets a free pass. I can't help you with that. I just know we have to remember not to ever disagree with you. :/

I find it ironic that one player deserves our undying loyalty despite glaring ineptitude just because he's a Raven...but Ray is in for a bashing every time his name comes up.

I also see you can't go without bringing up Kyle Boller. Tell you what, before you get started, please leave the "Gay for Boller" smack over at YBR, ok?
"