Republicans weak on the economy

[Galen Sevinne]

So why do you guys vote republican again??? God and Shadows are the only things left. Actually I think god and shadows are really very related. Read on...

Since 1950 there have been 10 recessions. Lets take a closer look at the facts...


Recession Dates President Party
--------------- --------- -----
July 1953-May 1954 Eisenhower Republican
August 1957-April 1958 Eisenhower Republican
April 1960-February 1961 Eisenhower Republican
December 1969-November 1970 Nixon Republican
November 1973-March 1975 Nixon/Ford Republican
January 1980-July 1980 Carter Democrat
July 1981-November 1982 Reagan Republican
July 1990-March 1991 Bush I Republican
March 2001-November 2001 Bush II Republican
December 2007- Bush II Republican

Source:
http://www.nber.org/...


Since 1950 there have been 10 recessions. 9 of the recession have started with a Republican in the White House. Only one has started with a Democrat in the White House (Jimmy Carter). Amazingly, every Republican president since James Garfield (March 4, 1881 - September 19, 1881) has had a recession while in office.

Bill Clinton is the only president in American history to serve two full terms without a recession. No recession started in the eight years Kennedy/Johnson were in the White House.

Keeps the shades drawn tightly boys...

[jonboy79]

So why do you guys vote republican again??? God and Shadows are the only things left. Actually I think god and shadows are really very related. Read on...

Since 1950 there have been 10 recessions. Lets take a closer look at the facts...


Recession Dates President Party
--------------- --------- -----
July 1953-May 1954 Eisenhower Republican
August 1957-April 1958 Eisenhower Republican
April 1960-February 1961 Eisenhower Republican
December 1969-November 1970 Nixon Republican
November 1973-March 1975 Nixon/Ford Republican
January 1980-July 1980 Carter Democrat
July 1981-November 1982 Reagan Republican
July 1990-March 1991 Bush I Republican
March 2001-November 2001 Bush II Republican
December 2007- Bush II Republican

Source:
http://www.nber.org/...


Since 1950 there have been 10 recessions. 9 of the recession have started with a Republican in the White House. Only one has started with a Democrat in the White House (Jimmy Carter). Amazingly, every Republican president since James Garfield (March 4, 1881 - September 19, 1881) has had a recession while in office.

Bill Clinton is the only president in American history to serve two full terms without a recession. No recession started in the eight years Kennedy/Johnson were in the White House.

Keeps the shades drawn tightly boys...



The reasoning behind this post is completely and utterly flawed. You act like a recession starts liek the snap of a finger. Who was president before each of these recessions. It takes years for economic policy to affect the economy, not minutes, days or weeks.

Try again.

[Galen Sevinne]

The reasoning behind this post is completely and utterly flawed. You act like a recession starts liek the snap of a finger. Who was president before each of these recessions. It takes years for economic policy to affect the economy, not minutes, days or weeks.

Try again.

Yeah it seems that facts and truths are not a strong point for Republicans of late. Try again??? Why should I? The truth is there. You will just come up with some other lie or fabrication. 9 out of the last 10 recessions are republican-based. Giving tax breaks to the wealthy and thinking it will trickle-down is a fallacy. It has never worked. It is a mirage to make the wealthy even wealthier and it exploits the other 98%. The FACTS prove it. The TRUTH is there.

[jonboy79]

Yeah it seems that facts and truths are not a strong point for Republicans of late. Try again??? Why should I? The truth is there. You will just come up with some other lie or fabrication. 9 out of the last 10 recessions are republican-based. Giving tax breaks to the wealthy and thinking it will trickle-down is a fallacy. It has never worked. It is a mirage to make the wealthy even wealthier and it exploits the other 98%. The FACTS prove it. The TRUTH is there.


The "facts" show that recessions start during republican presidents. That in NO WAY< SHAPE OR FORM proves that republicans cause recession. That is junior high logic. Large Scale economy does NOT work at the snap of a finger. I'm sorry you think it does or wish it did, btu that is simply not correct.

But go aahead, keep thinking that INCREASING taxes on that top 2% will actualy incrase revenue at all, let alone increase it enough to bail out SSI, fund college tuition for all and create a public healthcare system liek the Dems want you to think....


Galen, I seriously thought you were smarter then this. You seem to put some effort into what you post about, and if i remember, you have mentioned higher education. This is among the most ridiculous posts I've ever seen on a message board period. This falls in line with the Let's get Shaun Alexander posts from this spring/summer. You can't honestly think there is a direct causse/effect relationship liek you are trying to draw here do you?

[Galen Sevinne]

The "facts" show that recessions start during republican presidents. That in NO WAY< SHAPE OR FORM proves that republicans cause recession. That is junior high logic. Large Scale economy does NOT work at the snap of a finger. I'm sorry you think it does or wish it did, btu that is simply not correct.

But go aahead, keep thinking that INCREASING taxes on that top 2% will actualy incrase revenue at all, let alone increase it enough to bail out SSI, fund college tuition for all and create a public healthcare system liek the Dems want you to think....


Galen, I seriously thought you were smarter then this. You seem to put some effort into what you post about, and if i remember, you have mentioned higher education. This is among the most ridiculous posts I've ever seen on a message board period. This falls in line with the Let's get Shaun Alexander posts from this spring/summer. You can't honestly think there is a direct causse/effect relationship liek you are trying to draw here do you?

ok you win. I guess the dems were responsible for the loosening of lending regulations that has led to another financial institution going belly up. Right? Must have been Clinton 8 years that coerced Mccain's economic advisor to create the environment that has led to 100,000's of foreclosures. Ok i get it now. How simple that is.

the truth is republican leadership that past 8 years has been about as dismal as it has been. Of course you will blame clinton for 9-11, blame clinton for foreclosures, blame clinton for iraq, and every other problem we can easily and responsibly put on the shoulders of Bush.

9 out of the last 10 recessions occuring on republican tickets and you are going to ignore that? And claim that I don't get it? 9 out of 10? really? and this is the dumbest post you have ever read? Obviously, debating this with you is a waste of time if you pull those excuses out the bag. You ever think that just maybe you have been tooled by these guys? You should check it out.

[jonboy79]

ok you win. I guess the dems were responsible for the loosening of lending regulations that has led to another financial institution going belly up. Right? Must have been Clinton 8 years that coerced Mccain's economic advisor to create the environment that has led to 100,000's of foreclosures. Ok i get it now. How simple that is.

the truth is republican leadership that past 8 years has been about as dismal as it has been. Of course you will blame clinton for 9-11, blame clinton for foreclosures, blame clinton for iraq, and every other problem we can easily and responsibly put on the shoulders of Bush.

9 out of the last 10 recessions occuring on republican tickets and you are going to ignore that? And claim that I don't get it? 9 out of 10? really? and this is the dumbest post you have ever read? Obviously, debating this with you is a waste of time if you pull those excuses out the bag. You ever think that just maybe you have been tooled by these guys? You should check it out.

Who is talking about 9/11? We aree talkign abotu economics and yoru complete misunderstanding of hwo a global economy works. 9/11 can clearly be blamed on OSAMA BIN LADEN, and some blame certainly falls on George Bush's staff for ignoring some pretty obvious signs of what could have occurred. All I'm saying is you can't connect the dots you are trying to, it makes no sense. It doesn't work that way. It takes, at minimum a few years for economic policy to have any effect on our economy. It's best to look at the state of the union once a president has exited office or is in his second term to decide how his first term went. Clinton's policies shone through druign W's first term, etc.

FWIW, we aren't even in a recession.

[Galen Sevinne]

Actually, it was the banks and loan companies that led to those foreclosures and it happened all over the world as i pointed out on the other thread. Even China is about to have a crisis in real estate. The housing busts occurred in Spain, England and Italy and caused great recessions, as muc as 50% in Spain.


No shit sherlock. But do you know who loosened up the regulations so that could occur? Do you know why there was an influx of new mortgage products...interest only, hybrid ARM's? No document mortgages?

You can blame the banks and you can certainly blame the greedy nature of Americans who think they need 2500+ sq foot homes but it was just for these reasons that there were regulatory measures placed on home loans. When those regulations were eased by Mccain's once-economic advisor, the whole thing blew up. Do you know who served to get rich with the easing of regulations?

Again more facts...truths. You can choose to see them or ignore them.

[jonboy79]

No shit sherlock. But do you know who loosened up the regulations so that could occur? Do you know why there was an influx of new mortgage products...interest only, hybrid ARM's? No document mortgages?

You can blame the banks and you can certainly blame the greedy nature of Americans who think they need 2500+ sq foot homes but it was just for these reasons that there were regulatory measures placed on home loans. When those regulations were eased by Mccain's once-economic advisor, the whole thing blew up. Do you know who served to get rich with the easing of regulations?

Again more facts...truths. You can choose to see them or ignore them.


I'm gonna back G7 on this one, Banks hands were FORCED by the gov't with a slew of anti-discrimination red tape that forced the banks to go agaist their best judgement and provide funds for those that shouldn't qualify. It ran likea snowball out of control on a mountain, as spurned on by Wall Street, but the issue orignated with our very own Federal Gubmint.

[Galen Sevinne]

I'm gonna back G7 on this one, Banks hands were FORCED by the gov't with a slew of anti-discrimination red tape that forced the banks to go agaist their best judgement and provide funds for those that shouldn't qualify. It ran likea snowball out of control on a mountain, as spurned on by Wall Street, but the issue orignated with our very own Federal Gubmint.


Phil Gramm to be exact:

http://www.motherjones.com/news/feature/2008/07/foreclosure-phil.html

[jonboy79]

Phil Gramm to be exact:

http://www.motherjones.com/news/feature/2008/07/foreclosure-phil.html

That article missed the point.. it was the forcing of "fair" lending practices for minorities that really set the snowball in motion.

[Galen Sevinne]

That article missed the point.. it was the forcing of "fair" lending practices for minorities that really set the snowball in motion.

Please...do you really think Republicans did what they did so that minorities could have "fair" lending practices?

I guess you also might think we went to Iraq to spread freedom??? yes?

conservative spin.

[jonboy79]

Please...do you really think Republicans did what they did so that minorities could have "fair" lending practices?

I guess you also might think we went to Iraq to spread freedom??? yes?

conservative spin.

No, I'm saying it's the "fair" lending practices that collapsed the housing market.

We went to Iraq to finish what Dubya's dad didn't.

[FredGrau]

Republicans are so delusional when it comes to the economy. The only thing worse than tax-and-spend is tax-cut-and-spend! You want to know why trickle-down economics doesn't work? Nothing trickles down and it only increases the National debt.

Who is the ONLY President to balance the budget in the last 50 years? Bill Clinton!! Republicans preach being fiscally responsible and YET, a sleazeball named Bill Clinton is the only president to practice it. Sounds like a lot of hypocracy to me!

Another question for you Republicans: What are the three largest categories of expenditures the Federal government has? Answer:

1. Social Security entitlements including Medicaire/Medicaid. Neither party will touch this - it would be political suicide to piss off AARP.
2. Defense. Guns vs Butter. We know where each party stands here.
3. Interest on the debt! Nobody to blame here but the tax-cut-and-spend policies by the Republican administrations.

No other categories of expenditures even comes close. Every American tax payer should be outraged that so many of their tax dollars are used for nothing but to pay interest on the debt.

You Republicans want to argue the stock market? Lets! When Bill Clinton took office, the DJIA was less than 4,000. When he left (and Dubya took over), the DJIA was about 10,500. The DJIA finished today at 10,917. How's that for trickle-down economics and tax-cut-and-spend policies?

Enough of the greed - it's time to pay the piper get fiscally responsible again.

I rest my case - go ahead and spin, but the facts are the facts.

It's the economy stupid!

[Galen Sevinne]

I love it when Trap breaks out his comparisons. U.S vs. China...U.S. vs. Spain...U.S vs. Germany. Remember not so long ago when the idea of comparing the U.S. to anyone would have been silly? My bet is that if Mccain pulls this out, in two years we will be seeing Trap comparing the U.S. to Bulgaria and then maybe Chile and quite possibly Nicaragua. "Hey man, look at the price of gas in Nicaragua..." C'mon Trap, stop relying on definitions of recessions and 1% growth and look around at unemployment numbers, deficit, industry production, foreclosures, major financial institutions crumbling.

But if you need to...keep lowering the standards Trap.

We won't even go into the lowering of the standards when it comes to morality as the U.S. doesn't stand supreme there anymore as well thanks to 8 years of shady republican rule. The U.S. simply aint what it was 8 years ago.

[FredGrau]

Trap - As a typical Republican, you never see the forest thru the trees.

I didn't pay higher taxes under Clinton than I did under Bush. Being middle-class, I paid the same rate.

Who's funding a good portion of our debt Trap? The Chinese! Think about it - much of yours and my taxes are going directly to the Chinese government. This is directly caused by the Republican tax-cut-and-spend policies.

I don't want my tax dollars going directly to the Chinese government. Every year, Dubya ADDS $400 billion to our debt which means each year, MORE of our tax dollars feeds China's economy instead of ours.

Two things can happen when you have all of this debt that Dubya significantly contributes to:
1. Interest rates go up because the demand for the dollar goes up.
2. The gov't prints more money which causes the value of the dollar to go down and inflation goes up.

Guess what has happened the last 2 years?

Hey Trap - How much more debt will we generate should we spend four more years in Iraq under McCain? How much interest on this debt will feed China's economy instead of ours?

McCain - Bush 44!

[Galen Sevinne]

GALEN:

There's no recession pal.

How many times do you have to be told?

Europe is poor compared to us. the facts have been presented. They have recession, by half in some states, they have hi taxes, inflation, gov't controlled economies causing all that.

$46,000 pr cap in salary for US
$28,000 pr cap in salary for EU's wealthiest state


MOVE OVERSEAS WITH MARTIN SHEEN IF YOU DON'T LIKE OUR ECONOMY.


Geesh.

I never said there was a recession... geeesh. There is more to the health of an economy than the definition of a recession.

Shit even republicans are out today blaming the economy problems on lack of proper regulation. They have no choice at this point.

Dude I have lived and worked in third world countries. I have made choices based on experience to stay in the U.S. You don't need to tell me to move elsewhere if I am unhappy. I have already. The U.S. is by far the best place to live. I have always been proud to be an American even in heated debates with guys who lost friends and family in wars against the CIA when all they wanted to do was grow coffee plants.

Nothing irks me more than when some conservative questions my sense of being an American because I see that this country is both economically and morally disintegrating because of right-wing neonconservative thought.

Even Mccain had to come up with a whole new set of lies, reframes and refabrications today to support his cockamamie notion that the economy is "fundamentally sound". If you don't believe me, look at his a.m. speech compared to his p.m. speech from today alone.

[Galen Sevinne]

We're not in a recession Galen.

How many times do you have to be told and by how many posters and facts?

We're ahead of our competitors - a fact you ignore.

you might soon wish it was only a recession.

[Rochardrik]

If Clinton had killed Binny when snipers had him in their sights 9/11 would have been avoided, at least for years, but Clinton didn't give the order. And that was after he bombed all those US embassies.

And there was 1 DEM Prez who gave tax cuts - JFK. Galen must have forgotten that.

The wealthy pay as much as 40% of the nation's taxes as is while the poor pay practically nothing and some don't think those tax cuts help the economy. LOL.

======================
THERE HAVE BEEN three major tax cuts in the past 50 years, during the administrations of JFK, Reagan, and the current President Bush. Each series of tax cuts spurred an expansionary period of economic growth, as consumers had more income to spend and shareholders had more capital to invest. NCPA experts say broad tax cuts make good economic policy, but the country also needs fundamental tax reform to simplify the tax code
======================


GALEN SAID:

Must have been Clinton 8 years that coerced Mccain's economic advisor to create the environment that has led to 100,000's of foreclosures.
==================================================


Actually, it was the banks and loan companies that led to those foreclosures and it happened all over the world as i pointed out on the other thread. Even China is about to have a crisis in real estate. The housing busts occurred in Spain, England and Italy and caused great recessions, as muc as 50% in Spain.

The president has no control over that. Not even Greenspan. He had a memo that something like that could happen but there wasn't much he could do to stop it.

It was the stupid people for taking loans they knew they could not pay and the dumber bank presidents for lending it too them. Also, it was the tricky little interest hike that the home owners didn't understand, ie, how the interest rates would rise during certain years. When time came for the increase, they didn't bother to calculate if they could pay it and when they couldn't, thus the foreclosure. How could any politician stop that. Some banks have closed and Lehman is the latest institution to go under.

Yet, despite the housing busts in this country, rising fuel and energy costs, the economy grew for the 3rd straight qtr, unlike in the EU.

Geesh.
Clinton went after BLAden but was criticized by you republicans AND the "liberal media' because he "was just doing this to divert attention" from his impeachment trial (for having an extra-marital affair). * years later, the dumbest president (in my lifetime any way) we have ever had, had the full support of the country to go after BLaden and failed miserably, misdirecting us into a totally unconnected war in which thousands of our finest have been slaughtered, literally, and it's Clintons fault... just ask Rush Whinebawl.

[jonboy79]

It is very reasonable to assume that a recession will hit soon into the next presidents term . Is it safe to say that is not their fault, btu that the events hae been in motion for at least a few years, perhaps even a few decades???

[jonboy79]

How am I not surprised you ducked this...

[Galen Sevinne]

How am I not surprised you ducked this...

The buck has to stop somewhere. Just like Clinton bailed out his predecessor republicans, Obama will bail out the last 8 years of failed republican economics that ruined the Clinton-era gains.

I don't respond because you will refuse to see that republicans economic strategies don't work. Strong economies are bulit from the bottom up, not the top down. That has been shown to be true. The numbers don't lie...the patterns don't lie, and the trends are clear.

The majority of americans see Obama's economic plans as superior to McCain's. Look at the polls.

[jonboy79]

So you obviously agree that if a recession starts during his presidency, it is not his fault. You would obviously say that this economic downturn is NO SHORTER then 5 years coming. So then you MUST note that the president in control at the time of a recession is NOT a direct coorelation?

Let's keep the partisan politics out of this, and simply not the facts. You drew a conclusion that was NOT able to be drawn. There is no direct coorelation, just admit it.

We can argue what works and what doesn't forever, but there is no arguing that the coorelation you tried to draw was senseless. Teh current crisis is all the proof you need.

One needs only look at our lovely state of MD to see that the Dem Strategy of Tax the SHIT out of EVERYONE doesn't work either. That was an instant gratification answer.

I think it's safe to say that no one has a freaking clue what will really work in the long run, besides cutting spending by a LOT, and that will never happen.

[Galen Sevinne]

So you obviously agree that if a recession starts during his presidency, it is not his fault. You would obviously say that this economic downturn is NO SHORTER then 5 years coming. So then you MUST note that the president in control at the time of a recession is NOT a direct coorelation?

Let's keep the partisan politics out of this, and simply not the facts. You drew a conclusion that was NOT able to be drawn. There is no direct coorelation, just admit it.

We can argue what works and what doesn't forever, but there is no arguing that the coorelation you tried to draw was senseless. Teh current crisis is all the proof you need.

One needs only look at our lovely state of MD to see that the Dem Strategy of Tax the SHIT out of EVERYONE doesn't work either. That was an instant gratification answer.

I think it's safe to say that no one has a freaking clue what will really work in the long run, besides cutting spending by a LOT, and that will never happen.

well I think the problem begins when people only try to define an economic problem with the a definition of a recession. Truly our economy is, as many say, in the worst shape overall (recession or not) as it has been since 1929. I believe that is the case because of a loosening of regulations brought on by mostly republicans 7 years ago and overssen by republican bush.

As far as Md. many will argue that budget shortfalls were predicted befoer the last election and brought on by Erlich. It is a misnomer to simply belive that dems are all about tax and spend. That is a rallying point by republicans. Everyone is tax and spend...its more about how you tax and how you spend. I prefer the democratic way of doing it.

But you are right in that it is trend build up to problems but our current problems fall on the current admin as well as the congress that was in sessio 7 years ago.

[jonboy79]

But you are right in that it is trend build up to problems but our current problems fall on the current admin as well as the congress that was in sessio 7 years ago.


So would you agree that a post about when recessions, as defined and the presidents in office when they began has NO VALUE? Maybe then you will understand what I meant at the beginning of this thread. Heck maybe the rest of the recessions were repub's fault as wel... I don't think so, but you are welcome to....


I thin kwe would both agree that the cutting of spending is the most important thing at this point as it can be shown that either cutting or raising taxes can both lead to lower incomes.... The increasign of GDP is the only thing basically guaranteed to increase income.

[FredGrau]

jonboy - There's only one thing worse than tax-and-spend - that's tax-cut-and-spend!

We are $9.6 trillion in debt because of the irresponsible tax-cut-and-spend policies of this and previous Republican administrations. If-and-when this current bill passes, we will be well over $10 Trillion in debt.

Slimeball Bill Clinton was the ONLY president to show fiscal responsibility to balance the budget. Is it just a coincidence that the best economic times this country ever had was under the Clinton administration?

[Rochardrik]

So you obviously agree that if a recession starts during his presidency, it is not his fault. You would obviously say that this economic downturn is NO SHORTER then 5 years coming. So then you MUST note that the president in control at the time of a recession is NOT a direct coorelation?

Let's keep the partisan politics out of this, and simply not the facts. You drew a conclusion that was NOT able to be drawn. There is no direct coorelation, just admit it.

We can argue what works and what doesn't forever, but there is no arguing that the coorelation you tried to draw was senseless. Teh current crisis is all the proof you need.

One needs only look at our lovely state of MD to see that the Dem Strategy of Tax the SHIT out of EVERYONE doesn't work either. That was an instant gratification answer.

I think it's safe to say that no one has a freaking clue what will really work in the long run, besides cutting spending by a LOT, and that will never happen.

I believe a recession has already started. I'm in the construction business... That's where ALL recessions start, and believe me, we are dead in the throes of perhaps the worst recession in my lifetime(well, maybe not Carter;s) but it is dire!!!!!... And Obama didn't start it.. The world's lowest IQ leader dubya did!

[FredGrau]

Because te G0P c0ngess made Willie d0 it.


:thumbup:

Dubya had a GOP Congress for 6 years - just like Clinton!!

:happyanim

[jonboy79]

except that the economy is still growing, so we are NOT in a recession... We will be soon, but we aren't yet... And No I don't think Obama will be the one starting it.