Clayton chokes!

[ravenjoe]

Unacceptable! After the team holds and positions themselves for a W over Tom Terrific, Clayton drops a pass that would've given a First Down, and positioned the team for a likely victory!!! YOU GOT TO MAKE THOSE CATCHES, DAMN IT!

[52decleetzu]

Only took 3 minutes and we are off to the races!!!!!

Here we go.....

[RavenScallywag]

as I said in the other thread, you're not going to call Mason out for dropping the 3rd and 4 pass then?

Seriously, Clayton made a bunch of good plays on that drive. Yeah, he choked at the end and it sucks. I wouldn't rip him apart and write off his performance in this game for one catch.

[GaRaven]

He missed the catch!! It happens!!! How about Carr on the opening KO....gave them a 3-0 lead to start.....

It is always the little things!! So, Clayton miss the catch...sucks!!!! But tear him apart....really?

[Mr.Boh]

as I said in the other thread, you're not going to call Mason out for dropping the 3rd and 4 pass then?

Seriously, Clayton made a bunch of good plays on that drive. Yeah, he choked at the end and it sucks. I wouldn't rip him apart and write off his performance in this game for one catch.

It happens, it sucks. Mason was mugged on the third down... why no flag?

[ravenjoe]

Mason would NOT have dropped that pass, GUARANTEED!

[52decleetzu]

It happens, it sucks. Mason was mugged on the third down... why no flag?

Was that a rhetorical question?

[ravenjoe]

I wouldn't rip him apart and write off his performance in this game for one catch.
Where did I write him off?! However, I might give D. Will a shot after this game, that's for sure!

[Jeremiah W]

I can accept dropping passes when hit or they were poorly thrown, but Clayton did not attempt to put both hands on the football on the last 2 drops. A chest/ baskett catch attempt at this level, on that down and situation is ridiculous and on the would be game winning TD it looked like maybe the DB was grabbing one of his arms, but Clayton did not appear to be going after the ball with both hands.

I have been a big fan and supporter when people called him a bust, but I have also noted the need to upgrade the #2 WR spot. I think Washington has been a lot more consistant this year, but I think we may need to look again at the trade market for a $ #1 WR to replace Mason eventually and compliment him better right now. Bowe?

[pyite32]

I have defended him in the past but, Clayton is a BUST, PERIOD.

He will be playing slot for the Patiots next year after this audition.

Thanks for the loss.

[deuce]

My love for mark Clayton died today. Awful awful awful play. Just catch the f-ing ball it was right in your numbers!!!

[4G63]

There were many iffy plays today but that drop cost us the game.....we would have scored (probably WillieMac) with ~ 20 seconds left in the game!


Clayton lost the game......but I don't hate him for it. We'll be fine!

[ravenjoe]

And, Joe was there when you needed him - this guy is the next superstar QB in this league, and we are fortunate to have him!

[ravenjoe]

Clayton lost the game......but I don't hate him for it. We'll be fine!

NoOne hates Mark - that is Unacceptable! The bottom line is he choked when the team needed him the most!

[pyite32]

NoOne hates Mark, that also is Unacceptable! The bottom line is he choked when the team needed him the most!

I do.

[F15NEXT]

A lot of "ifs" today. Clayton at the end was one. Carr opening kickoff fumble also. One thing for sure, the refs' calls definitely favored the home team today. That call on Ngata that kept their drive alive in the 1st quarter was b.s., as well as the call on Suggs for incidental contact on Brady.

[deuce]

Clayton also ran the wrong route on the INT in the red zone right before the half. Anita Marks is going to make me drive my car into a wall talking about "I told you so with the receivers".

[The Fanatic]

You want to be a champion, you need to step up and play like a champion in situations that call for it.

That type of situation is what seperates the men from the boys.

It's the type of play that dictates who moves on and who doesn't.

You think Heinz Ward drops some shit like that?

Doesn't matter what happened earlier in the game.

The first 59:30 are irrelevent in that situation.

It is now a game of 30 seconds only to win or lose, you have to make a catch that hits you right between the numbers that a highschool freshman could make.

Mental errors are unacceptable at this level at crucial times in the game.
It's what seperates those that wear rings, and those that are wannabes trying.

We weren't talking about a spectacular catch or effort needed with that play.

[ravenjoe]

You want to be a champion, you need to step up and play like a champion in situations that call for it.

That type of situation is what seperates the men from the boys.

It's the type of play that dictates who moves on and who doesn't.

You think Heinz Ward drops some shit like that?

Doesn't matter what happened earlier in the game.

The first 59:30 are irrelevent in that situation.

It is now a game of 30 seconds only to win or lose, you have to make a catch that hits you right between the numbers that a highschool freshman could make.

Mental errors are unacceptable at this level at crucial times in the game.
It's what seperates those that wear rings, and those that are wannabes trying.

We weren't talking about a spectacular catch or effort needed with that play.


YOU'RE ABSOLUTELY CORRECT! You're in a position to Win the game, You Make those Plays! This team should be 4-0! And, yes, Heinz Ward does Not Miss that pass, and neither does D. Mace! Give D. Will the ball!

[Benny8444]

Give him a break. Yes he should have caught the ball but who said we would have gotten a for sure TD on that drive.

Please, no one feels worse than Clayton.

[Sephy]

Give him a break. Yes he should have caught the ball but who said we would have gotten a for sure TD on that drive.

Please, no one feels worse than Clayton.

You can plead for people to give him a break, but to say "we might not have scored" is not a good reason.

[pyite32]

Give him a break. Yes he should have caught the ball but who said we would have gotten a for sure TD on that drive.

Please, no one feels worse than Clayton.

Yes, but he deserves to feel bad, he blew the game. The rest of us and his teamates did not do anything to feel as bad as we do now.

[CRZA938]

YOU'RE ABSOLUTELY CORRECT! You're in a position to Win the game, You Make those Plays! This team should be 4-0! And, yes, Heinz Ward does Not Miss that pass, and neither does D. Mace! Give D. Will the ball!

Yes, it was a horrible play, but Clayton will bounce back. While I can understand the frustration, there were plenty of other plays that cost us the game as well. How about the fumble on the opening kickoff? If that doesn't happen, we're kicking a field goal and going to overtime...

[Rza52]

When dealing with grown men and professionals, accountability and a tasteful amount of shame are very useful and appropriate tactics. The same reason they review all the bad plays in front of the entire team. These are grown men. Clayton screwed the pooch and he doesn't deserve a break. If he was on the Patriots Bellicheck would have him on defense ad a DB already.

[ravenjoe]

Yes he should have caught the ball but who said we would have gotten a for sure TD on that drive.

There is No doubt in my mind that we would've scored....none! He is a professional, and he gets paid to make those kind of catches. My hope is this team is SB bound this year; but not with plays like that!

[Tspot-D-Ravenator]

I've seen Clayton make some great one handed catches this season, so he doesn't deserve so much abuse!! Did he cost us the game? Possibly...But our defense giving up so much yardage on passes across the middle is UNACCEPTABLE!!:thumbdown:

[myfavoriteboxer]

And, Joe was there when you needed him - this guy is the next superstar QB in this league, and we are fortunate to have him!

Amen. In related news, Kyle Boller has had a pick six AND a fumble that was recovered for a TD; the Rams are losing 35-0.

[Tspot-D-Ravenator]

Amen. In related news, Kyle Boller has had a pick six AND a fumble that was recovered for a TD; the Rams are losing 35-0.

The Rams have a bad team and their offensive line is very OFFENSIVE!

[StingerNLG]

I've seen Clayton make some great one handed catches this season, so he doesn't deserve so much abuse!! Did he cost us the game? Possibly...But our defense giving up so much yardage on passes across the middle is UNACCEPTABLE!!:thumbdown:

Really?? Because Clayton has only caught 9 balls this year. I don't remember any one-handed catches myself. But then again Kelley Washington so far has outperformed him.

So, how much longer do we need to wait for our 1st round WR to develop to where when the game is on the line he makes the catches that other 1st rounders make?

I've about had enough myself.

[Tspot-D-Ravenator]

Really?? Because Clayton has only caught 9 balls this year. I don't remember any one-handed catches myself. But then again Kelley Washington so far has outperformed him.

So, how much longer do we need to wait for our 1st round WR to develop to where when the game is on the line he makes the catches that other 1st rounders make?

I've about had enough myself.

Whatever...

[myfavoriteboxer]

In fairness I was going off a boxscore and didn't watch the game. After seeing highlights, of course the Rams suck in all phases, and that "Boller fumble" was actually a botched handoff that looked like it was mostly the ball carrier's fault. But that pick six was just a dreadful, dreadful play by Boller, thrown across his body into the middle of the field.

[Galen Sevinne]

There were three plays that Clayton failed to make today. The poorly ran routh leading to Flacco's interception. The ball he dropped on the fade pattern in the endzone. The dropped pass at the end of the game.

If this team wants to be a great team...the elite team...the #1 seed, someone needs to make those plays.

Whats the deal with Dwill?

[StingerNLG]

Whatever...

Masterful response man. So filled with facts and thought. Good job.

[Sephy]

Really?? Because Clayton has only caught 9 balls this year. I don't remember any one-handed catches myself. But then again Kelley Washington so far has outperformed him.

So, how much longer do we need to wait for our 1st round WR to develop to where when the game is on the line he makes the catches that other 1st rounders make?

I've about had enough myself.

..or 7th rounders. Dude just cannot make a grab when we need one the most.

[4G63]

Id gladly trade his beautiful one-handed catch for a TD last year against the woeful Bungles in Cinci for the catch today......

:grbac:

[psuasskicker]

Give him a break. Yes he should have caught the ball but who said we would have gotten a for sure TD on that drive.

No. There are no breaks here. None.

All off-season long I hoped, and I prayed, and I begged that I would be wrong about one thing this season. Just one. That Clayton really would be breaking out. That he was going to come in and build on what he was doing in the back half of last season. That he would grow and flourish with Flacco. That he would supplant DMas as the go-to guy, and have a grand plus yards and half a dozen or more TDs and finally start living up to that first round receiver status.

So now, any of you remaining Mark Clayton supporters...

Stop.

Just stop.

Stop calling Mark Clayton a "playmaker."

He's not.

Stop telling people that this team doesn't need another wide receiver.

We do.

Cause for all the stupid penalties we took to give them the ball back after we stopped them on third down... For all the terrible, horrendous, vomit-inducing officiating we had to fight through to keep this game close... For all the stupid mental mistakes everyone on this team made...

Flat out, we had an opportunity to win this football game.

And on fourth and game, when a perfectly thrown pass hits you in the numbers...

Play-makers make that catch.

"Good" receivers make that catch.

First round receivers who aren't busts make that catch.

Hell, average receivers who are semi-first-round busts make that catch.

And instead, Mark Clayton, in the start of his fifth year, with one of the best young quarterbacks in the game, is on pace for what?

708 yards. 4 TDs.

And game-costing drops on fourth down.

Period.

End of discussion.

- C -

(Words cannot describe how sick, frustrated, furious, I am right now...)

[Galen Sevinne]

No. There are no breaks here. None.

All off-season long I hoped, and I prayed, and I begged that I would be wrong about one thing this season. Just one. That Clayton really would be breaking out. That he was going to come in and build on what he was doing in the back half of last season. That he would grow and flourish with Flacco. That he would supplant DMas as the go-to guy, and have a grand plus yards and half a dozen or more TDs and finally start living up to that first round receiver status.

So now, any of you remaining Mark Clayton supporters...

Stop.

Just stop.

Stop calling Mark Clayton a "playmaker."

He's not.

Stop telling people that this team doesn't need another wide receiver.

We do.

Cause for all the stupid penalties we took to give them the ball back after we stopped them on third down... For all the terrible, horrendous, vomit-inducing officiating we had to fight through to keep this game close... For all the stupid mental mistakes everyone on this team made...

Flat out, we had an opportunity to win this football game.

And on fourth and game, when a perfectly thrown pass hits you in the numbers...

Play-makers make that catch.

"Good" receivers make that catch.

First round receivers who aren't busts make that catch.

Hell, average receivers who are semi-first-round busts make that catch.

And instead, Mark Clayton, in the start of his fifth year, with one of the best young quarterbacks in the game, is on pace for what?

708 yards. 4 TDs.

And game-costing drops on fourth down.

Period.

End of discussion.

- C -

(Words cannot describe how sick, frustrated, furious, I am right now...)

yep.

Its what I was saying all week on this board. Will the Ravens do what is needed to win this game and be a great team or will they come up short?

1st test of the season was a fail. It might be time to put Kelly Wash in that second spot and move Clayton to 3rd.

[pyite32]

yep.

Its what I was saying all week on this board. Will the Ravens do what is needed to win this game and be a great team or will they come up short?

1st test of the season was a fail. It might be time to put Kelly Wash in that second spot and move Clayton to 3rd.

Or how about DWill at 3, or some schlub off the street who can catch a freaking ball when it hits him in the chest.

[baltimore_hokie]

1st test of the season was a fail. It might be time to put Kelly Wash in that second spot and move Clayton to 3rd.

Clayton is decent out of the slot, I would be all for making that move. It's just like ripping Joe's heart out when he did everything he was able to do and it still wasn't good enough.

[Galen Sevinne]

Clayton is decent out of the slot, I would be all for making that move. It's just like ripping Joe's heart out when he did everything he was able to do and it still wasn't good enough.

Right and I think Kelly has better size on the outside.

[ravenjoe]

1st test of the season was a fail. It might be time to put Kelly Wash in that second spot and move Clayton to 3rd.
Wrong; put K.Wash in the second spot, and D.Williams in the third spot. Clayton rides the bench for all of the reasons cited in the previous post!

[StingerNLG]

Or how about DWill at 3, or some schlub off the street who can catch a freaking ball when it hits him in the chest.

Ok, but what seems to be the problem with Demetrius? He cannot seem to even get on the field for more than a snap or two a game.




No. There are no breaks here. None.

All off-season long I hoped, and I prayed, and I begged that I would be wrong about one thing this season. Just one. That Clayton really would be breaking out. That he was going to come in and build on what he was doing in the back half of last season. That he would grow and flourish with Flacco. That he would supplant DMas as the go-to guy, and have a grand plus yards and half a dozen or more TDs and finally start living up to that first round receiver status.

So now, any of you remaining Mark Clayton supporters...

Stop.

Just stop.

Stop calling Mark Clayton a "playmaker."

He's not.

Stop telling people that this team doesn't need another wide receiver.

We do.

Cause for all the stupid penalties we took to give them the ball back after we stopped them on third down... For all the terrible, horrendous, vomit-inducing officiating we had to fight through to keep this game close... For all the stupid mental mistakes everyone on this team made...

Flat out, we had an opportunity to win this football game.

And on fourth and game, when a perfectly thrown pass hits you in the numbers...

Play-makers make that catch.

"Good" receivers make that catch.

First round receivers who aren't busts make that catch.

Hell, average receivers who are semi-first-round busts make that catch.

And instead, Mark Clayton, in the start of his fifth year, with one of the best young quarterbacks in the game, is on pace for what?

708 yards. 4 TDs.

And game-costing drops on fourth down.

Period.

End of discussion.

- C -

(Words cannot describe how sick, frustrated, furious, I am right now...)

Just want to quote for truth. Of course, the answer I got was "whatever", so heaven only knows what answer from the Clayton apologists you'll get PSU.

[psuasskicker]

Just want to quote for truth. Of course, the answer I got was "whatever", so heaven only knows what answer from the Clayton apologists you'll get PSU.

They can bring it.

This was simply disgusting. Any other way we lose this game. Pound him into oblivion to knock the ball out. Pounce the route and knock it down. Another bullsh*t no interference call where he gets hit early (which btw would have made three on that set of downs alone). Whatever. None of it would be close to as hari-kari committing worthy as a ball bouncing off your f**king numbers.

There's an article coming on this in the next couple days. Practically the entire thing is already written in my head. I've just got to get it on paper.

ugh...

- C -

[baltimore_hokie]

PSU, I'm glad I'm not the only one feeling like this. My girlfriend hasn't come near me since the end of the game, except to ask if Collinsworth would "rather be the giver or receiver" in his love for the Stoolers. It's been a bad day, and the sad part if how good it could have been.

[ravenjoe]

The Hokies won, and are rated #5 in the rankings...so not a complete loss.

[baltimore_hokie]

The Hokies won, and are rated #5 in the rankings...so not a complete loss.

Yeah, but just about everything else went wrong this weekend.

[ravenjoe]

I totally agree!

[HoustonRaven]

Sting, PP and others (me included) have been saying for 2 seasons Clayton is not earning his paycheck.

Sadly (very sadly) we have once again been vindicated.

Cut him NOW before his liability costs us down the stretch.

It is inexcusable for a pro WR to have a ball hit him in the numbers and the ball gets dropped.

[StingerNLG]

Sting, PP and others (me included) have been saying for 2 seasons Clayton is not earning his paycheck.

Sadly (very sadly) we have once again been vindicated.

Cut him NOW before his liability costs us down the stretch.

It is inexcusable for a pro WR to have a ball hit him in the numbers and the ball gets dropped.

Let me add to this, because I am watching the game on DVR for the 2nd time now.

2nd Quarter, 1:22 left. Kelley Washington makes a tougher catch and actually GETS hit and still comes up with a big catch when it was needed. Joe threw the pick the next play, but Washington kept the drive alive.

Just saying.

[Raveninwoodlawn]

I think the title of this thread says it all.

You have got to make that catch. Period.

The moment was too big for Mark today.

Just have to hope that he puts this behind him and grows from it as this is it at this point...no trade is going to happen at this point.

Edit...Don't know who was at fault for Joe's INT, but Clayton was in that play too.

[Rex Thunder]

Yes, it was a horrible play, but Clayton will bounce back. While I can understand the frustration, there were plenty of other plays that cost us the game as well. How about the fumble on the opening kickoff? If that doesn't happen, we're kicking a field goal and going to overtime...

Can you guys stop bringing that up?? Get a clue! That was the first play of the game and set the tempo. This was going to be a game we won or lost in the final moments with every crazy call and sway of momentum. Carr is not a top paid wide reciever, excpected to catch balls- Clayton is! He's a first round draft pick starting receiver in the nfl who gets paid to make catches. That was A SIMPLE CATCH! I like the guy- but no excuses- he needs to make it!!

Play like that keep teams from becoming elite. It can keep quarterbacks from going from solid to superstar! He let a lot of people down today and he knows it!

[camdenyard]

Edit...Don't know who was at fault for Joe's INT, but Clayton was in that play too.

Well, Flacco called the play, and he threw to the spot that Clayton vacated...so I have to believe that Clayton screwed up that as well.

The ball he dropped in the EZ...and then the one that hit him in the shoulder...horrible, horrible.

This reminded me of the first Stooler game last year. I keep saying that this one will come back to bite us.

[octscotts]

This crap is driving me insane. But Carr fumbled the kickoff....But Mason dropped the 3rd and 4 pass....It was a BS call of the official. Whatever. Those plays were done - OVER. The team, as a whole, did what they needed to do to put themselves in the position to win that game when it mattered. Mason & Washington making the plays on the previous drive, Ray Rice fighting tooth & nail for extra yardage, defense getting the ball back. If Joe's throw had been off, I'd be the first one to say that you can't put that one on Clayton, but COME ON, my 5-year old can catch a pass when it's right between the numbers and he damn sure isn't making millions a year to do. Mark my words, quote me, whatever but this game WILL COME BACK to bite us in the a$$. That little dropped pass could've been the difference between us getting home field advantage or the playoffs period. Someone else said test failed and yep. Plus, Bengals beat Browns in OT AND the Squeelers win. 4-0 could have been huge. Mark Clayton would have had to find his own ride home last night.:mad:

[baltimore_hokie]

So, I hear there was a game out in Colorado where a team needed a TD to go ahead in the game. I heard they had a WR make a spectacular play to score a 51-yard TD that ended up winning them the game. I can't remember any names or anything like that, but I think it happened. I'm just saying...

[psuasskicker]

Well, Flacco called the play, and he threw to the spot that Clayton vacated...so I have to believe that Clayton screwed up that as well.

For whatever it's worth, someone told me they heard Flacco say after the game that he took the blame for the pick...that Clayton ran the route correctly, he threw it to the wrong spot.

- C -

[Jeremiah W]

I can forgive Clayton and trust him to make that catch next time, but it was a bad drop. The worst kind. Game over you lose, but like the FSU drop in the endzone vs Miami, the worst part about the drop is the wide reciver was trying to make a catch with his shoulder pads, not his hands. How can a pro or major college WR still be trying to catch the ball with his body and trap it with his arms? They should have the finger tip and thumb diamond so beaten inot muscle memory they do it in their sleep. Hands. You have got to try to put both hands on the ball, and you should always have your thumbs and index fingers touching when ever possible, only attempting pinky touching grabs when forced into awkward over the shoulder tries or digging them off the turf. I did not like the way Clayton sort of gave up one arm when the defender grabbed it and tried to make a spectacular Reggie Wayne type one arm catch, instead of fighting through the contact to get 2 hands on the ball at the highest point possible, then turn away and tap the toes.

[octscotts]

It's an example of not having your head into the game and being too greedy. He catches that ball, we've got 1st down plus like 35 seconds and a timeout. I know we can't say anything for sure, but with our record in the red zone, I cannot believe that we don't score in that situation with McGahee, Rice, McClain, somebody.

[RavensDomination]

I cannot believe that we don't score in that situation with McGahee, Rice, McClain, somebody.

I cannot believe for the life of me that we threw the ball on 3rd and 4 the play prior to the Clayton drop.

[octscotts]

I somewhat agree but I'm not as upset about that. We've been rush-heavy in the Red Zone. I think Cam was trying to catch them offguard, looking for the run.

[Sua Sponte]

I have a few itches about this game.

Where was McClain, the running game was working, but Flacco still threw 47 times, and I know the obvious, we were behind. Got that, but the Ravens that I know would have played it safe at the end of the half and ran the ball in stead of throw some BS out route and would have wanted 7 but settled for 3 and took momentum into the locker room at the half.
This leaves me to question, is Cam getting to greedy on Offense?

I know the team will lose a few games this year and I'm good with that, but what I'm not good with is losing from bad officiating. If we get beat flat out, it's just a lose, but this was disgracful and yet again shows how the officials can ruin a game.

Mark Clayton, Mark Clayton what can I say. Big time players make big time plays in big time games. enough said there.
I know it should have been pass interferance on 2 plays prior, but just get the first down man, and he tried for the end zone before the ball got there.

O'yeah how could i forget, don't touch Tom Brady, don't even look at him the wrong way, because he will turn around and look at the ref and he will surely throw a flag because Pretty Boy Brady is playing Flag Football and can't be touched. How freaking pathetic.

[Lee Van Cleef]

I don't know how a guy (Clayton) can make a sensational one-handed grab like he did last season in Cincy, and yet not pull in a ball hitting him right between the numbers.

If only it had been Heap.

[RavenTD]

It's pretty simple I hate receivers who catch the ball against their body.Get your hands on it.gggrrrrrrr.:141847_smmackbottom

[StingerNLG]

I don't know how a guy (Clayton) can make a sensational one-handed grab like he did last season in Cincy, and yet not pull in a ball hitting him right between the numbers..

I knew another guy like that. I believe his name was Travis Taylor.

[Raveninwoodlawn]

I remember the 2005 draft when we were building up to draft Mark.

If anybody remembers on the old boards all the discussions about Mark and all our potential draftee's, I didn't really like him. I saw him as a small, average speed guy who completely disappeared in Oklahoma's big bowl games.

He was a guy who shocked many scouts and wannabe draftniks after running his 40 at 4.45 as he didn't look that fast on the field. He also was shut down in OU's big games as I alluded to earlier.

I thought he would be an ok WR, but I never thought he'd be really close to a #1.

One thing that has completely disappeared are all those big YAC plays at OU. I remember people posting videos like this (http://sooners.fandome.com/video/76977/OU-Sooner-Mark-Clayton/) and raving about his YAC ability. Where the hell has that gone?

I certainly think he is better than Travis Taylor but at this point, I think any thought of him being anything more than a solid #2 is out the window. He'll make his plays against some of the mediocre competition, but he'll struggle against the elite teams...and that has been his MO.

[RavenTD]

Right now I would take Kelly washington over Clayton as a more reliable WR to come down with the ball.

[psuasskicker]

I don't know how a guy (Clayton) can make a sensational one-handed grab like he did last season in Cincy, and yet not pull in a ball hitting him right between the numbers.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/multimedia/photo_gallery/2004/10/25/nfl/nfl06.jpg

http://baltimoresun.image2.trb.com/balnews/media/photo/2003-11/10069782.jpg

[StingerNLG]

LOL, now PSU to be fair Clayton had someone on him in that picture.

He dropped the pass Sunday all by himself with no help. :)

[psuasskicker]

LOL, now PSU to be fair Clayton had someone on him in that picture.

He dropped the pass Sunday all by himself with no help. :)

Um, that's not Clayton in those photos dude...

;)

- C -

[StingerNLG]

Um, that's not Clayton in those photos dude...

;)

- C -

Ahhhhhhhhh, you got me! Good form C! Good ol TT.

They do look like similar WR's though, don't they? Not hard to tell apart.

[ravenjoe]

You know, we've been pounding Clayton pretty good here. But the guy did man-up, which shows what type of man he Really is - that speaks volumes for his character. Maybe he can redeem himself; however, he has always been inconsistent and probably not worthy of a first round pick.

[Jeremiah W]

You know, we've been pounding Clayton pretty good here. But the guy did man-up, which shows what type of man he Really is - that speaks volumes for his character. Maybe he can redeem himself; however, he has always been inconsistent and probably not worthy of a first round pick.

There are a lot of worse 1st round WRs out there. Clayton is a good player and a solid use of a 1st round draft pick. He was not a top 10 player, or even top 20, but he pretty much is what he was supposed to be, no more no less.

No one is more upset about the drop than he is, but there is a lot of time to make up for it.

[ravenjoe]

Clayton is a good player and a solid use of a 1st round draft pick.

Clayton is an average receiver, probably a no. 3 in my book; however, he was not worthy of a number one draft pick, even though he far exceeded the exploits of one invisible man, Mr. Travis Taylor.

[Jeremiah W]

Clayton is an average receiver, probably a no. 3 in my books; however, he was not worthy of a number one draft pick, even though he far exceeded the exploits of one invisible man, Mr. Travis Taylor.

Here is the thing about the 1st round WRs though. He does not fall into the out of the NFL catagory, or can not get pt on a good team slot that more than half of all 1st round WRs fall into.

His production and ypc have been maybe below expectaions, but they have not been below acceptable #2 WR stats on a run 1st, play D type of team. The 2 years out of 4 he had decent QB play the team won 13 games with him as a starter at WR.

There are a lot of 1st round WRs and late round guys that are better than him, and I get that and want to get some of those guys on the team, but as far as 1st round picks at WR go in general, Clayton has given the Ravens a better than average return on the investment.

[ravenjoe]

Agreed. My main concern w/ Clayton is his INCONSISTENCY. When he is on, he is good; when he is off, we saw what happened on Sunday.

[Dave Lap]

I think a lot of folks here are going overboard on the Clayton thing.

Yes, I really wish he would have caught that ball. I bet if you asked Mark he might even agree.

Yeah, he should of caught the ball. Last time I checked, he's human.

If all players were perfect there would be no need to play the games.

He has made a major withdrawal from the goodwill bank account but he's not overdrawn yet. It was only one play. Yeah it was a crucial one but it was only one play.

He simply needs to make lots more good plays to replenish his goodwill account. He can't make another withdrawal until he's deposited a LOT into it.

But one drop? He's still OK with me. I think he's going to bust ass from here on in.

[Dragz]

My .02... The problem with Clayton on Sunday is that he wanted the TD more than he wanted the reception. He made a mental error by not securing the ball, thats it. Did he mess up, yup. Did that cost us the game, more than likely. But to say that Washington should be our #2...I dunno. He gets that production, in part, because he IS playing in the slot with Clayton and Mason out there. Washington is EXTREMELY productive and I think he has been great so far but Cam and Harbs know what they're doin. As far as D.Will, he's not out there in 4 wide sets, I imagine for 1 of 3 reasons: D.Will isn't healthy or Heap has better hands or having Heap out there, makes anticipating our play calling harder. With Heap out there, he can shift in tight to run block, flex out wide to run a route, shift into the backfield and lead block. D.Will can't do all that. All in all, Clayton CAN make plays, just not EVERY down. That is the same with EVERY WR. Lastly, a #1 receiver is different for every team based on the offense that they run. Our offense is not dependent on a #1 that stretches the field and torches DBs. Our #1 needs to be a sure handed, precise route runner, thats Mason. Would the stretch the field guy be nice, yes. But this game ought prove, what we need is not a burner, we need sure hands.

[StingerNLG]

Clayton is an average receiver, probably a no. 3 in my book; however, he was not worthy of a number one draft pick, even though he far exceeded the exploits of one invisible man, Mr. Travis Taylor.

:word

There is NO WAY he was worth a 1st round pick. If he had 1st round WR numbers or was an actual #1 on the field, you could say that.

But he doesn't. He's pedestrian, and can't come up with the big catch when it's needed.

[ravenjoe]

:word

There is NO WAY he was worth a 1st round pick. If he had 1st round WR numbers or was an actual #1 on the field, you could say that.

But he doesn't. He's pedestrian, and can't come up with the big catch when it's needed.

I agree completely! I said, " He is not worthy of a number one draft pick"....the key word here is NOT!!!

[psuasskicker]

I think a lot of folks here are going overboard on the Clayton thing.

Yes, I really wish he would have caught that ball. I bet if you asked Mark he might even agree.

Yeah, he should of caught the ball. Last time I checked, he's human.

If all players were perfect there would be no need to play the games.

He has made a major withdrawal from the goodwill bank account but he's not overdrawn yet. It was only one play. Yeah it was a crucial one but it was only one play.

He simply needs to make lots more good plays to replenish his goodwill account. He can't make another withdrawal until he's deposited a LOT into it.

But one drop? He's still OK with me. I think he's going to bust ass from here on in.

You know, if Clayton were a great receiver, then yeah, I'd buy this argument. If he was some receiver out there putting up 1,000+ yards a season catching 80+ balls regardless of who is throwing to him, then I'd give him a pass. i.e. If Derrick Mason were the guy who let the ball bounce off his chest, I'd be pissed, but not nearly as upset about it.

But first off, he's not. He's some dude that puts up 700 yards a season, catching 40+ a year. And secondly, there's a reason he's that guy and a reason that if that pass was thrown to Mason, then we'd have converted that play and probably wound up winning the game. Cause Mason is a good receiver. And Clayton is not.

So instead of being a one-off situation where a normally good receiver has a "he's only human" moment, it's instead emblematic of the type of receiver he really is.

So no, I don't think anyone's going overboard here.

- C -

[StingerNLG]

I agree completely! I said, " He is not worthy of a number one draft pick"....the key word here is NOT!!!

Yep. I was agreeing with you 100%.

[Carey]

I'm disappointed with the drops too but Clayton made some good catches in the game as well, he's been solid, to say he's not worthy of a first round pick is a little harsh, We will eventually upgrade at the WR spot and i think Clayton will be great in the slot once we do.

[pyite32]

"Solid" receivers who are easily shut down, and gain 500 - 700 yards a season are not worthy of a first round pick.

First round picks are suposed to be impact players, and Clayton has never made much of a positive impact on this team.

He might be good out of the slot, I would rather keep Washington there and find 2 new receivers when Mason retires.

[Sua Sponte]

Not only did Clayton let himself and the team down, mainly he let Joe down.
Joe took a pounding in that game (mostly after the ball was thrown) and to come back and generate a drive all the way down to the red zone, throw a great ball, easily catchable with time left and a time out, for Clayton to just drop it. Man I feel for Joe after that drop, not Clayton.

[ravenjoe]

Man I feel for Joe after that drop, not Clayton.

Did you happen to see the pain in Joe's face after Mark dropped that ball. His look spoke volumes.

[Galen Sevinne]

If Clayton catches that pass and the Ravens go on to score, Joe is showcased all week for a 2 minute winning drive against the Patriots in their house. It would be a beautiful thing to watch every time I tuned into the NFL Network. Instead absolutely nothing. Amazing how thin the line is between fortune and nothingness.

[psuasskicker]

I'm disappointed with the drops too but Clayton made some good catches in the game as well, he's been solid, to say he's not worthy of a first round pick is a little harsh

Um, no it's not. Not even a little bit it's not. It is frankly not possible to justify this guy as being worth the #22 overall pick, but if you'd like to try, please feel free. I'd love to hear why you think that...

- C -

[Dave Lap]

Um, no it's not. Not even a little bit it's not. It is frankly not possible to justify this guy as being worth the #22 overall pick, but if you'd like to try, please feel free. I'd love to hear why you think that...

- C -

So for those arguing that Clayton was not worth a #22 pick, what is your point? That we should have drafted someone else? Or? I'm just not getting part of this.

I mean I know there is a group of posters not fond of Clayton as a player. That I understand.

[Jeremiah W]

So for those arguing that Clayton was not worth a #22 pick, what is your point? That we should have drafted someone else? Or? I'm just not getting part of this.

I mean I know there is a group of posters not fond of Clayton as a player. That I understand.

I think that just because Oz has picked a probowler more often than not with his 1st round picks, a guy who is just a starter is not worthy.

The gamble ws good, the payoff was not as good as it could have been.

Not sure exactly what Clayton ever did before the drop to be unpopular, but he makes about as many plays as any #2 Wr in the NFL that is not playing with a probowl QB and pass happy attack.

[psuasskicker]

So for those arguing that Clayton was not worth a #22 pick, what is your point? That we should have drafted someone else? Or? I'm just not getting part of this.

I mean I know there is a group of posters not fond of Clayton as a player. That I understand.

Here is the thread (http://www.profootball24x7.com/forum/showthread.php?t=39411) that deals with a lot of what I was saying back then. I dunno why I dug this up...morbid curiosity I guess.

Whatever. We can't undo time. Do I wish we had drafted someone else? Yeah, of course I do. But the draft is a crap-shoot. Do I wish we had drafted Roddy White or Vince Jackson? Of course. But we could have easily drafted Mark Bradley or Roscoe Parrish as well.

The point is, it's idiocy for us to have gone into this season hoping Clayton was an answer, particularly in light of the risk associated with losing Mason. Washington is working out pretty well, and Flacco is a flat stud, but if you read my article you know I think it's pretty critical we get him some sort of better receiving option.

Mark Clayton, for the eight millionth time, is NOT a number two receiver in this league. He just isn't. He's nowhere close to good enough to be considered a starting receiver. He's adequate, he works okay to good as a slot option, but there's no way he should be seeing the field on a regular basis.

The only valid argument anyone ever makes in favor of him is that he makes these frankly silly plays which look great. And that's certainly nice to have. But the problem is, there's only three to five of those per year. And everything else he does in the meantime is pretty worthless...we could be getting that from someone else. And now, quite frankly, his presence has hurt us pretty badly.

It's frustrating to me that the guy is seeing the field regularly. I said it earlier...I really hoped and wished like hell I was wrong about what I was saying about the guy.

But sorry, I'm not. Mark Clayton isn't a playmaker. He isn't an "average" starting receiver. He's sub-standard. And that's not cutting it right now, on a championship caliber team with a potentially dominant quarterback. He should be demoted. He should be seeing the field on 25% of our offensive plays, not 75% of them. Washington is certainly more productive, more reliable and more consistent than Clayton is; there's frankly no reason anymore why he shouldn't be our clear #2 receiver.

The point is that people here need to stop deluding themselves as to what this guy is. Most have, some more recently than others. But Clayton is and likely will NEVER be the "playmaker" that some here still make him out to be. He's some dude that can play the position and shouldn't see the field a whole lot, and frankly there are no less than six teams where he'd be in a dog-fight to win the #4 receiver slot.

He's a good to average #3 receiver, at best.

- C -

[Jeremiah W]

Here is the thread (http://www.profootball24x7.com/forum/showthread.php?t=39411) that deals with a lot of what I was saying back then. I dunno why I dug this up...morbid curiosity I guess.

Whatever. We can't undo time. Do I wish we had drafted someone else? Yeah, of course I do. But the draft is a crap-shoot. Do I wish we had drafted Roddy White or Vince Jackson? Of course. But we could have easily drafted Mark Bradley or Roscoe Parrish as well.

The point is, it's idiocy for us to have gone into this season hoping Clayton was an answer, particularly in light of the risk associated with losing Mason. Washington is working out pretty well, and Flacco is a flat stud, but if you read my article you know I think it's pretty critical we get him some sort of better receiving option.

Mark Clayton, for the eight millionth time, is NOT a number two receiver in this league. He just isn't. He's nowhere close to good enough to be considered a starting receiver. He's adequate, he works okay to good as a slot option, but there's no way he should be seeing the field on a regular basis.

The only valid argument anyone ever makes in favor of him is that he makes these frankly silly plays which look great. And that's certainly nice to have. But the problem is, there's only three to five of those per year. And everything else he does in the meantime is pretty worthless...we could be getting that from someone else. And now, quite frankly, his presence has hurt us pretty badly.

It's frustrating to me that the guy is seeing the field regularly. I said it earlier...I really hoped and wished like hell I was wrong about what I was saying about the guy.

But sorry, I'm not. Mark Clayton isn't a playmaker. He isn't an "average" starting receiver. He's sub-standard. And that's not cutting it right now, on a championship caliber team with a potentially dominant quarterback. He should be demoted. He should be seeing the field on 25% of our offensive plays, not 75% of them. Washington is certainly more productive, more reliable and more consistent than Clayton is; there's frankly no reason anymore why he shouldn't be our clear #2 receiver.

The point is that people here need to stop deluding themselves as to what this guy is. Most have, some more recently than others. But Clayton is and likely will NEVER be the "playmaker" that some here still make him out to be. He's some dude that can play the position and shouldn't see the field a whole lot, and frankly there are no less than six teams where he'd be in a dog-fight to win the #4 receiver slot.

He's a good to average #3 receiver, at best.

- C -

Do the math. Clayton was #47 last year in the NFL in reciveing yards, there are 32 teams.
http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?archive=false&seasonType=REG&d-447263-o=2&conference=null&statisticCategory=RECEIVING&d-447263-s=RECEIVING_YARDS&experience=null&d-447263-n=1&season=2008&qualified=true&Submit=Go&tabSeq=0&d-447263-p=1

Nevermind he was on a team with a rookie Qb that led the NFL in rushing attempts, he was a starter on a team that won 2 playoff games.

Sure some teams #3 WR has better stats. So what? What does that have to do with football, and who is or is not doing the job as the #2 WR here.

I want the Ravens to get a new #1 WR that would make Clayton one of the best #3 WRs in the NFL instead of just an average #2, but a guy that makes big plays running it, catching it and throwing it, is not a bust just because he is not Vince Jackson or Roddy White. He is not a bust because he is not Mike Williams, Freddy Mitchell, Charles Rodgers, or one of the many guys picked ahead of him that did not even play out the rookie contract.

http://www.nfl.com/players/markclayton/profile?id=CLA796702

[StingerNLG]

The point is, it's idiocy for us to have gone into this season hoping Clayton was an answer, particularly in light of the risk associated with losing Mason. Washington is working out pretty well, and Flacco is a flat stud, but if you read my article you know I think it's pretty critical we get him some sort of better receiving option.

Many people thought the "light" would click on for Clayton this year. But it's just not like that. He doesn't have what it takes to be a #1 WR, no matter how much people want to give him 5, 6, 7, 8 years in the league to try to become one. We've had how many different QB's throwing him the ball? People blamed the QB and swore that now having Joe Flacco would mean Clayton would all of a sudden morph into this all-pro WR.


But sorry, I'm not. Mark Clayton isn't a playmaker. He isn't an "average" starting receiver. He's sub-standard. And that's not cutting it right now, on a championship caliber team with a potentially dominant quarterback. He should be demoted. He should be seeing the field on 25% of our offensive plays, not 75% of them. Washington is certainly more productive, more reliable and more consistent than Clayton is; there's frankly no reason anymore why he shouldn't be our clear #2 receiver.

The point is that people here need to stop deluding themselves as to what this guy is. Most have, some more recently than others. But Clayton is and likely will NEVER be the "playmaker" that some here still make him out to be. He's some dude that can play the position and shouldn't see the field a whole lot, and frankly there are no less than six teams where he'd be in a dog-fight to win the #4 receiver slot.

- C -

If Clayton was a playmaker he would have made that catch with the game on the line. Period.

Great post as always C.