What does Billick need to do to stay on board?

[FadeToBlack]

How many wins do you expect from the Ravens to be satisfied having him coach another season?

[highwater]

With the challenging schedule they have, I think he should (emphasis on "should" as opposed to "will") be safe if they go 9-7. But then again, if they go 9-7 and miss the playoffs, who knows? I remember that idiot in San Francisco firing Mooch after they made the playoffs and lost a close game in the first round, so who really knows? We also don't really have a track record with Bisciotti, so it's hard to predict how he'll react.

But 9-7 would be a three game improvement over last year's train wreck, and given the tough schedule, would not represent a massive underacheivement. I hope we do better than that so this discussion ultimately won't matter at the end of the season.

[Mista T]

I think 8-8 (a two game improvement) should do it.

:mrt:

[Irishraven]

I would hope that we get 4 divisional wins and maybe even 5 depending on when we hit the road at Pitt!

I'm pray for 12 wins but know its not going to happen but hey, on any given sunday...

I like Billick by the way, I really hope he turns things around this year, I feel the addition of McNair will take us to the playoffs! :ire:

[jonboy79]

9 wins in conjuncture with a horrible injury year(McNair, or Cmac and Rolle, Jo and Pashos or Terry).
or
10 wins in or out of playoffs. Should be in.

[FellsPointRaven]

I think 8-8 (a two game improvement) should do it.

:mrt:

T - I think Steve B's expectations are higher than yours. Mine are too. Anything less than 10 wins and/or the playoffs and I think Brian will be gone.

[RavenFanatic2k6]

I do not think 8-8 will do it. 9-7 AT MINIMUM.

T, I know you have said you view the team as a 7-9, 8-8 team, but I do not feel that Bischiotti does. I think Bischiotti feels that the pieces are there for a playoff run and anything short of that will mean Billick is gone.

[AZRAVEN]

I think we have to go deep in the playoffs for Billick to be retained, and I really doubt we'll be able to pull that off. I think Steve laid the groundwork of how he will react to failure or perceived failure last year ~ Billick is in deep trouble if this team doesn't win and win big. If I had to make a guess now, I'd say he's gone after this season.:eyes:

[Greg]

I think a lot depends on how many injuries we have and also how the team composes itself. A Detroit-like melt down is worth 3-4 losses while an OT loss to Cincy or Pittspuke on the road would not weight too hard on him. A win total has too many variables, but a composed team playing with passion for 60 minutes each week will do it. If we don't have injuries to a lot of key people we should win 9-12 games if we play like that.

[highwater]

I think we have to go deep in the playoffs for Billick to be retained,

I think if we make the playoffs at all, Billick gets retained, even if we go out in the first round. It's not as if the expectations are that high for this team, aside from us fans and a few NFL commentators/analysts. Steve can and will do whatever he wants, but if we make the playoffs, firing Billick would be a mistake.

[AZRAVEN]

The big question is not what the fans, commentators, pundits expectations for us are ~ there is only one vote that matters and that's Bisciotti's. I will be very surpprised if anything less than a playoff run keeps Billick's job. I think he came within a gnat's ass of getting canned last year and Bisciotti doesn't strike me as being very patient. I hope I'm wrong but I haven't seen anything to convince me that he will have any better control of the team this year than he did last year. Everyone is playing nice now but the bullets haven't started flying yet.

[GreenWave52]

I think Billick needs to make the playoffs and possibly win a game. A blowout loss in the first round won't help him.

[highwater]

I think a lot depends on how many injuries we have and also how the team composes itself.

I agree, and this is also a factor that complicates matters. Bisciotti places an emphasis on how Billick interacts with the press, his scouts, his players, to a degree that I think is probably uncommon among NFL owners. If Billick meets those expectations and the team goes 8-8, maybe that will be good enough for Bisciotti. If the team goes 10-6 but the team has issues that Bisiciotti decides is Billick's fault, then he's in trouble.

If not for "Next Man Up" we wouldn't even have a clue about Bisciotti's attitude, and even with that book, we still don't have a solid clue about what he thinks is most important. If they have a Detroit type meltdown, Billick could be in Bisciotti's doghouse even if they make the playoffs.

[Sephy]

Absolutely no chance Billick is brought back if the Ravens go 8-8.

[sandiegosean]

I think 8-8 would keep him, but I'm not sure if he wants to stay. He's getting very upset with the lack of offensive peronnel given to him by the FO. I can see Brian leaving before firing.

[Purpleguy]

I really don't like the "new" Billick. Nobody was complaining about his arrogance when we were winning.

I never thought Billick needed to change. I always thought it was the players that needed to change. Namely the Lewis brothers. When players think they are bigger than the coach or the team for that matter, then it is time for them to go.

All i can say is that if billick goes because of team performance, then the guy that put that team together should go as well.

[Sports Steve]

I think Billick will have to finish at least 9-7 and make the playoffs.


:jester: :jester:

[Admin Steve]

Let me be the devil's advocate for a moment. What say you all about the scenario where he doesn't make it through the season. With the exception of Oakland and Cleveland, the first 6 games are tough. How many times have we looked past an easy opponent and lost in a big nasty way. I'm almost more worried about Oakland than the Bucs because of the team's penchant for waltzing into what should be easy games and losing.

So, in an 0-6 scenario, does Billick make it past the Bye week. Does JF take the reigns?

http://www.harfordvista.com/main/images/brianbillick.jpg

[hurting]

With the team we have 8-8 is a reasonable expectation. I hope I am wrong, but if the preseason (minus the first drive everyone is creaming over) is any iindication McNair will be on his back quite a bit and we will have a hard time moving the ball.

Billick should definitely be fired for drafting such shitty offensive linemen the last 6 years. And for Billick not to offer a lucrative contract to Casy Rabach a few years ago is inexcusable. :261695:

This teams oline other than Ogden is crap. Last year they were describe as "Jonathan Ogden and four turds" by an insider on the profootballtalk site. And that just about sums it up. This team has not had a good O-line since 1997. All the proof you need to see that O-line is king is to look at the teams that were in the playoffs and SB last year. Indy had a great line all year long. Their O-line had a lapse in the playoffs last year and Manning looked like Boller.

Venting complete. :beer:

[Purpleguy]

I don't think Ogden is close to what he once was, and even if he was his retirement is iminent. We have really made no contingency plans to replace the one solid piece of our line. We are pinning our hopes on some projects panning out.

I'm not saying you have to have a pro-bowler at every position, but I'd rather have 5 solid guys than one high paid tackle and 4 scrubs.

[AZRAVEN]

Let me be the devil's advocate for a moment. What say you all about the scenario where he doesn't make it through the season. With the exception of Oakland and Cleveland, the first 6 games are tough. How many times have we looked past an easy opponent and lost in a big nasty way. I'm almost more worried about Oakland than the Bucs because of the team's penchant for waltzing into what should be easy games and losing.

So, in an 0-6 scenario, does Billick make it past the Bye week. Does JF take the reigns?

http://www.harfordvista.com/main/images/brianbillick.jpg

In this scenario I think Billick would definitely be gone, and as distasteful as it would be to me, Fassel would become interim coach.
I must say, I'm finding it very interesting how now that McNair is here we suddenly have a problem with the OL. Last year the prevailing belief seemed to be that it wasn't the OL at all but our inept quarterback. ;)

[Mista T]

I must say, I'm finding it very interesting how now that McNair is here we suddenly have a problem with the OL. Last year the prevailing belief seemed to be that it wasn't the OL at all but our inept quarterback.

And the year before that: it was Matt Cavanaugh!

:mrt:

[Purpleguy]

For many of us, it has been the o-line for a number of years.

[hurting]

I'm not saying you have to have a pro-bowler at every position, but I'd rather have 5 solid guys than one high paid tackle and 4 scrubs.

For many of us, it has been the o-line for a number of years.

Exactly. I have been complaining about this O-line since 1998. If you watch any other good to average team in the NFL, the QB actually has time to make a 7-step drop, set his feet, and then throw. How many other teams have had their QB sacked on a running play?

For those saying people are only now complaing about the o-line must be referring to the old Boller Bashing threads on the other board. If you mentioned that the O-line was inadequate over there you were insulted and told a good QB can make the O-line better. :insane: Or that you were a Boller appologist if you mentioned the inadequacies of the O-line. In the circles I run most people have been complaining about the oline for over 5 years now. Hell the O-line wasn;t even that good in our Super Bowl run. I had recently watched some of the old games from that year thinking "how the hell did Banks get that ball off" He had to throw the ball without even completing his drop due to the pressure. :grbac:

Flynn might be a great guy, and Mulitallo is a pillar of the community, but hell I know plumbers and accountants that are pillars of the community, they aren' playing pro football and nither should most of these guys on our O-line.
:bag:

[WxKevin]

For many of us, it has been the o-line for a number of years.

Exactly! And if we did blame it on the O-Line then we were "Boller Huggers". The QB and RB will only be as good as the O-Line. Period.

[Purpleguy]

Flynn has had more NFL players plow through him than the Hilton sisters.

[AZRAVEN]

For those saying people are only now complaing about the o-line must be referring to the old Boller Bashing threads on the other board. If you mentioned that the O-line was inadequate over there you were insulted and told a good QB can make the O-line better. :insane: Or that you were a Boller appologist if you mentioned the inadequacies of the O-line. In the circles I run most people have been complaining about the oline for over 5 years now. Hell the O-line wasn;t even that good in our Super Bowl run. I had recently watched some of the old games from that year thinking "how the hell did Banks get that ball off" He had to throw the ball without even completing his drop due to the pressure. :grbac:


That is what I was referring to, I remember getting pummelled regularly at draft time when I would complain about our lack of attention to the OL. I also was called a "Hugger" for implying that the OL was significantly responsible for our offensive ineptitude. It is amusing and refreshing to see it now acknowledged as a problem.. Now, if only we could convince the powers that be maybe the problem could be seriously addressed.

[BaltimoreRon]

- Keep the team competetive
- Keep the team focused and together
- Win on the road
- Stop the bickering with the press

I don't think we need to make the playoffs for Brain to keep his job. I think making the team competetive this season will be enough. I'm reminded of the patience the Steelers brass has had with 'the chin'.

Do you think that type of patience is good or bad in today's NFL? I personally think it is good, especially if the coach has a decent track record.

[Ravensarge]

- Keep the team competetive
- Keep the team focused and together
- Win on the road
- Stop the bickering with the press

I don't think we need to make the playoffs for Brain to keep his job. I think making the team competetive this season will be enough. I'm reminded of the patience the Steelers brass has had with 'the chin'.

Do you think that type of patience is good or bad in today's NFL? I personally think it is good, especially if the coach has a decent track record.


DITTO:patriot:

[AZRAVEN]

I think the kind of patience you are citing, Ron is essential in today's NFL. Things can go one way or the other very quickly and knee jerk reactions do nothing to improve the situation. After this past off season I'm just not sure Bisciotti has that kind of patience. Time will tell..

[BaltimoreRon]

I'm not sure about Steve's patience, either. Like you said, time will tell.

One other thing that could cause BB his job, which I forgot about, is breakdowns on the road like last seasons' game in Detroit. I think a game like that this season will make Brian's seat that much hotter.

[towsonraven]

Anthing short of a winning season, and I think, the Ravens make a change. Although 8-8 might be enough to buy him another year, especially if we have another spat of injuries, just my opinion

[StingerNLG]

With people really starting to come around on this OL problem, I am starting to believe that we need to take a closer look at Ozzie at the same time we look at Billick. Our OL has lacked talent and that isn't Billick's fault. Blame him for locker room problems or lack of motivation. But don't blame him for being stuck with Mike Flynn and his giant contract.

As for the OL, anyone who doesn't still believe the OL is the most important part of the offense need only to have watched the Steelers last night. The Steelers OL literally swallowed up the Miami defensive, even on blitzes. And they made Charlie Batch look like a freaking pro-bowler. I've never seen a backup QB chuck the ball downfield so much.

[GreenWave52]

Sting, while Ozzie may not value certain positions in the way we like there is no way he gets fired. We are at minimum one onf the 3 best drafting teams in the league. He also hired a coach that won us a Super Bowl. Ozzie has earned the right to hire the next head coach of this franchise (Kirk Ferentz).

I still think that good and bad teams come and go, so if we hold onto Billick during the lean times it will probably come back around in his favor at some point.

[Sephy]

Let me be the devil's advocate for a moment. What say you all about the scenario where he doesn't make it through the season. With the exception of Oakland and Cleveland, the first 6 games are tough. How many times have we looked past an easy opponent and lost in a big nasty way. I'm almost more worried about Oakland than the Bucs because of the team's penchant for waltzing into what should be easy games and losing.

So, in an 0-6 scenario, does Billick make it past the Bye week. Does JF take the reigns?


I can't see Billick getting canned midseason under any scenario that isn't some kind of sex scandal.

[Sports Steve]

If we start 0-6 Billick would be fired. However I can't even see that happening. Even in my worst dream :hammer:

:jester: :jester:

[flraven]

I kinda think BB will stay regardless of whether we make the playoffs, and as Greg pointed out, how well the team composes itself. The meltdown in Detroit better not repeat itself, it would show that Billick is not in charge of his team.
Even if BB goes, I'm not sure Fassel is the one Bisciotti would pick. Who would succeed him, Mariucci? Is there a better guy out there?
I'm hoping that the team makes the playoffs and goes deep in them!

[Ravens0587]

it would be nice to have the chiefs or bengals oline

[StingerNLG]

Sting, while Ozzie may not value certain positions in the way we like there is no way he gets fired. We are at minimum one onf the 3 best drafting teams in the league. He also hired a coach that won us a Super Bowl. Ozzie has earned the right to hire the next head coach of this franchise (Kirk Ferentz).

But are we GreenWave? To be honest, I think we need to see how Chris Chester, Dan Cody, Adam Terry, and Jason Brown work out first. Getting Ray Lewis and Jon Odgen was brillance. That was also now 10 years ago. Getting Todd Heap was brillance. That was 5 years ago. In the meantime the offensive line has been a chief concern since Leon Searcy went down, and we've goofed it up constantly with guys like Ethan Brooks (I'll never forget the 2004 Cleveland Game 1), Orlando Brown, Keydrick Vincent and picking Mike Flynn to stay at center over Casey Rabach. And then passing over guys in FA that at the least could have held our line in check while these rookies come up the system.

In the meantime multiple quarterbacks get injured behind our offensive line, and we now have to RELY on Steve McNair to HOPEFULLY be able to beat blitzes every time.

Ozzie has to take some responsibility for this. I realize it's an unpopular opinion to have, but I think Ozzie's gone blameless for the team's problems for way too long.

[AZRAVEN]

:iagree: Ozzie gets to many free passes. He has had not only his share of success but also some major clinkers. Besides, I think you must evaluate not only the drafts but the free agent acquisitions and that has also been spotty IMO. So I would rate him as slightly above average. My biggest beef is with the philosophy they hold, that any fat guy can be a lineman. As we have seen, not so!

[Irishraven]

I think he has started on the right foot:D

[Admin Steve]

Yup. I'm glad my nightmare 0-6 scenario has been nixed!

[flraven]

I think he'll be sleeping well tonight, as will the rest of the front office. And a whole slew of Ravens fans too! :thumbup: