Ask the Expert O-Line

[Dabruise]

For all you fatty-philes, here's the place to think deeply about the bigguns. The original "Squishy" one, Darb72, will be dropping in regularly to answer your questions and lead intelligent discussion regarding our Ravens in the trenches. He promised he'd be gentle here. Gentle... Giant. :laugh: :rolling:

[Ravens0587]

why don't we pull or guards more?

[darb72]

"why don't we pull or guards more?"

Short and sweet answer: They're to slow and have trouble hitting a moving target.

Sarcastic answer: It's kind of hard to pull a guard when the center gets driven into the backfield every play.

Real answer: It's a combination of the type of system we run and the players we have. The offensive linemen move whoever is in front of them while the FB clears out any linebackers in the newly created hole. Our 245 pound bowling ball of a running back should, in theory, have a head of steam built up by the time he gets to the LOS. It's simple, straight ahead smash-mouth football.

Teams with quicker RBs can try to create mismatches in run blocking. Let's use the upcoming Giants/Colts game for an example.
The Giants call a run for Tiki. The offensive line, except for guard Chris Snee, blocks down to the right and Tiki follows them. The defense reads the play and flows over to that side. Meanwhile Snee has pulled left and all of a sudden you have a 317 pound guard run blocking 260 pound DE Dwight Freeney. Advantage Giants. Tiki, using his acceleration, cuts back to the left and out runs the rest of the Colts front seven.

Ball control has been our offensive "game plan" for years. We try to limit the mistakes so our defense can stay rested and win the game for us. Given our lines rather annoying predisposition for untimely penalties I'm actually afraid of what would happen if we did ask them to pull.

[FHRaven]

Why has our FO been so bad at evaluating OLine talent? More of rhetorical question since darb isn't at the combine or the FO talent evaluation meetings. :p

Most people say they've ignored the line but I don't think so. I think they've just missed on almost every move for the last several years. Vincent stinks, Pashos is poor, Terry is average at best, Flynn should never have been resigned, etc.

They desperately need Brown and Chester to develop into starters NOW.

I guess the X and O question that relates to this is how many guys are we going to need to leave in to pass block to McNair healthy for a season?

FHRaven

[Ravens0587]

actually speaking of pulling guards and the colts i remember a play last year on a counter to jamal lewis.

We pulled Keydrick vincent and he wasn't quick enough to get to freeny. freeny smacked jamal as soon as he got the ball

[darb72]

I guess the X and O question that relates to this is how many guys are we going to need to leave in to pass block to McNair healthy for a season?

FHRaven
You have no idea how bad it really is.

I looked at the sacks from last year and out of 42 sacks, 39 were credited to defensive players. I'm just guessing that the other three were our QBs running out of bounds.

22.5 of those 39 credited sacks were defensive linemen. Something I noticed after the Jacksonville game a few years ago, most defenses have stopped blitzing us. Why bother when their front four gets enough pressure?

Linebackers accounted for 14 sacks against us last year, but 4 of them came against the Texans and everybody knows how pitiful their front four is.

Teams have figured out the easiest way to beat us is to just play a very base defense. Rush the front four, drop the linebackers into coverage and just do whatever you feel like with the secondary. That plan not only affects our short passing game, but also our running game because it's easier to get past the LBers if they come up quickly on a blitz.

So to answer your question, I don't think it matters how many people we leave in since it appears that five can't block four.

[Purpleguy]

Darb, just how important is the center in getting the o-line to gel? Is the center more or les like the "quarterback" of the line?

[Ravens'N'Hoos]

Here's my question: Who were those guys playing on our offensive line yesterday, and what did they do with our real o-linemen? :happy:

I mean, not that they're suddenly the best line in the NFL, but it was great to see McNair get protection and enough time (usually) to make a play; great to see Ogden and Mule win their matchups with Rice and Hovan most of the time; great to see some halfway decent run blocking most of the time.

[hurting]

Darb and bruise.

After watching yesterdays game I feel like I am the only one who saw a still pittiful O-line out there. Even with McNair's savy he had to create his own space to get throws off. I really only saw 3 or 4 passing plays where it looked like he had adequate time. I know the Buc's D is very good, so please tell me that the O-line is OK and it was what we should expect against an elite D?

[darb72]

Darb, just how important is the center in getting the o-line to gel? Is the center more or les like the "quarterback" of the line?

In my opinion/experience it's not really all that important. Having five guys that you know and trust is the big thing when it comes to an offensive line "gelling".

As far as being the "quarterback" of the line... not in the system we ran at UNA. The center would call out the defensive formation because he is smack dab in the middle, but everybody had to know exactly what everyone else was doing in that situation.


I'll get to the other questions after I've had a chance to review the tape, but they didn't look as painfully awful as they have in the past.

[darb72]

Teams have figured out the easiest way to beat us is to just play a very base defense. Rush the front four, drop the linebackers into coverage and just do whatever you feel like with the secondary
__________________________________________________________

I thought the beat us by stacking the box with 7 or 8 guys (I counted them at the games and they had 7 guys on the line) and daring Boller to throw, which of course we couldn't. This year they shouldn't be able to stack the box with McNair, which gives Jamal more room to run and spreads things out for the receivers.

Teams don't feel the need to rush the linebackers because they can get plenty of pressure with their front four. Given our offensive lines overall lack of athleticism they couldn't get out to the linebackers. That's a part of the reason we haven't seen any huge runs from Jamal; the linebackers are sitting there waiting on him because they're not running past him on the way to the QB.

[darb72]

Sure they stacked the box. We are a power-running team that until recently hasn't had crap at receiver, let alone QB. Still doesn't mean they blitzed.

For a prime example just look at the segment on Sportscenter earlier this evening where they talked about the best way to stop Vick. They showed Tampa with six men in the box, but only two of them rushed. Two of them acted as spies and the other two dropped into zone coverage.


Understand that this is merely a theory as to why defenses don't blitz us. Bruise would have to be the one to tell you if it's easier for a RB to slip by a blitz or not. I just know it's a lot easier to block a LB when they come to you than when you have to hunt them down in the open field. They're more athletic, supposedly, while we have the advantage of bulk and strength.

[ravensfan86]

Darb:

To me this week's game will be the biggest challenge so far for the oline. They surprised me with their play in Tampa but the Chargers defense is better then the Bucs! What scheme would you run to counter their strengths on defense? How do you think they will fare facing the Chargers dline?

[darb72]

What would I run if I had my choice? Zone scheme. Pretty much just block who ever happens to be in front of you when you get to a certain spot.

That has always been my favorite scheme against a 3-4, but we don't have the linemen to run it.

With what we have? Two back, one TE set and power the Chargers especially at Phillips, who is one heck of a pass rusher but doesn't hold up quite as well in run defense. Get him tired and on his heels then you've taken away one of the Chargers best weapons.

We have to double Jamal Williams, the Chargers NT. If we leave him singled up on Flynn, we might lose McNair and Boller in the same game.

I'd start Anderson at full-back because he is our best blocker in the backfield.

I think McNair had better plan on having a 100 yard rushing day if we want to win. He'll be facing pressure all day long from every angle.

[hurting]

bruise and darb (hope you guys still check in here)

I would like to hear your comments on the transformed O-line.

We now have Brown at LG and Chester at RG. The O-line play looked very good last Sunday (Falcons). Do you think Chester can Handle the Stealers?

Also, it looks like we are finally getting younger on the O-line (unfortunately due to injury).

Who do you think are the best fits across the line assuming we had everyone healthy?

Are these the Best 5?

LT - Ogden
LG - Mule or (Brown) ??
C - Chester
RG - Brown
RT - Rimph or Pashos ???


Thanks in advance. I think our O-line is finally looking up!

[darb72]

Yep, we're still here.:thumbup:


The O-line play looked very good last Sunday (Falcons). Do you think Chester can Handle the Stealers?

Some folks have said that the Falcons D-line wasn't a good test because of the injuries they had sustained. Personally I believe the O-line did exactly what they were supposed to do, which is more than we've gotten in the past.

Now do I think Chester can handle the Steelers? Yes from a physical stand point, and Dear God I hope so from a mental stand point. The Steelers know we have two young guys at guard and they're going to throw every blitz they can think of at us. Chester needs to be spending a lot of time in the film room with which ever guy wants to step up and help him learn. I'd prefer Mule since he has the time and experience.


Who do you think are the best fits across the line assuming we had everyone healthy?
LT- Ogden
LG- Mulitalo
C- Chester
RG- Brown
RT- Pashos

[hurting]

thanks darb, 'appreciate the info!

[Merlin]

So the million dollar question is

Our running game and our basement dwelling yards per carry average -- is it the fault of the o-line (doubt it) or the running back (aka earl campell 2)

:patriot:

[darb72]

In all honesty I think it's Jamal. He tap dances way to much in the backfield which allows the defenders to swarm the hole.

Now I could be wrong and the offensive line just sucks, but we've got two different starters from last year (three for a couple of games) and the YPC are pretty much the same. The fact that the QB sneak has been so effective this year shows that the line can get a push against the defense.