Ravens fans have short memories

[AntiMoon]

Up 21-7 in Pitt how did we blow the game? Throwing the ball and turning it over. Up 17-3 in Cincy Cam wasn't going to make the same mistake again. Fans better accept it now: If Ravens are up by 10 or more in the playoffs we will get conservative. And for this team that is the right strategy. Won't always work but it's the better % play.

[alien bird]

You can't completely take the air out of the ball with 25 minutes to go.

[goldenelite28]

We didn't lose last year because we threw the ball.

It was actually Rice who started the whole mess by fumbling.

[zing!]

You can't completely take the air out of the ball with 25 minutes to go.

:word

[HoustonRaven]

We really need another thread about Cam being conservative?

[Raveninwoodlawn]

This isn't for the OP or the guys who understand football, but for those of you who complain about why we go somewhat conservative...

WTF? Did you guys watch the game last year? (http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/gametracker/playbyplay/NFL_20110115_BAL@PIT)

We did not lose that game because we went "conservative". Some of you are absolutely ridiculous with this Cam Bullshit.

We lost that game because we had only 1 legit drive all game long and turnovers.

We had ONE scoring drive longer than 29 yards! And that drive was aided by a PI call. We had 129 yards all game long...including the first half. 2 TD's were off Pitt TO's...first was a defensive score and the other was a 29 yard drive.

We lost the lead because of a Ray Rice fumble on the first drive of the second half (on a pass play). By the way...first play of this drive was a pass play where Joe was sacked and immediately put us in 2nd and 3rd and long...Cam should stop being conservative and shouldn't have told Ray to fumble I guess.

Second drive of second half started off with a sack on a PA...PA on first is something so many people have been crying for...and it completely took away any momentum in that drive. Cam stop being conservative with PA pass plays on first down!

First play of the 3rd drive was a bad overthrow by Joe...another pass on first down that immediately turned into a turnover. What a conservative play call.

Tie Game. Not a hint of conservatism in that half whatsoever.

Want to keep going?...first play of the 4th drive was...guess what? A Passing play! Incomplete! Second play fumbled snap.

Now the lead is gone.

How in the hell can you nutjobs blame him for that clusterfuck?

[RavensRock]

At this point I don't care how they do it. Whatever they decide just don't turn the ball over and don't drop passes.

[RavenMan]

Up 21-7 in Pitt how did we blow the game? Throwing the ball and turning it over. Up 17-3 in Cincy Cam wasn't going to make the same mistake again. Fans better accept it now: If Ravens are up by 10 or more in the playoffs we will get conservative. And for this team that is the right strategy. Won't always work but it's the better % play.

They sure do, you being one of them. There were three turnovers in that quarter, only one was an interception. The others were a fumble by Rice, the only fumble he had all year and the other a bad exchange at center. Teh RAvens won yesterday that is all that matters but if they go conservative against a team like New England or in the Super Bowl should they make it against New Orleans and Green Bay, they will lose. It was shutdown too early yesterday and it nearly bit them in the ass.

[RavensRock]

This isn't for the OP or the guys who understand football, but for those of you who complain about why we go somewhat conservative...

WTF? Did you guys watch the game last year? (http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/gametracker/playbyplay/NFL_20110115_BAL@PIT)

We did not lose that game because we went "conservative". Some of you are absolutely ridiculous with this Cam Bullshit.

We lost that game because we had only 1 legit drive all game long and turnovers.

We had ONE scoring drive longer than 29 yards! And that drive was aided by a PI call. We had 129 yards all game long...including the first half. 2 TD's were off Pitt TO's...first was a defensive score and the other was a 29 yard drive.

We lost the lead because of a Ray Rice fumble on the first drive of the second half (on a pass play). By the way...first play of this drive was a pass play where Joe was sacked and immediately put us in 2nd and 3rd and long...Cam should stop being conservative and shouldn't have told Ray to fumble I guess.

Second drive of second half started off with a sack on a PA...PA on first is something so many people have been crying for...and it completely took away any momentum in that drive. Cam stop being conservative with PA pass plays on first down!

First play of the 3rd drive was a bad overthrow by Joe...another pass on first down that immediately turned into a turnover. What a conservative play call.

Tie Game. Not a hint of conservatism in that half whatsoever.

Want to keep going?...first play of the 4th drive was...guess what? A Passing play! Incomplete! Second play fumbled snap.

Now the lead is gone.

How in the hell can you nutjobs blame him for that clusterfuck?

You didn't even mention Boldin's drop TD and Housh's 4th down drop. Oh yea, didn't the Steelers convert a 3rd and 25 or something outrageous?

[RavenMan]

This isn't for the OP or the guys who understand football, but for those of you who complain about why we go somewhat conservative...

WTF? Did you guys watch the game last year? (http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/gametracker/playbyplay/NFL_20110115_BAL@PIT)

We did not lose that game because we went "conservative". Some of you are absolutely ridiculous with this Cam Bullshit.

We lost that game because we had only 1 legit drive all game long and turnovers.



We had ONE scoring drive longer than 29 yards! And that drive was aided by a PI call. We had 129 yards all game long...including the first half. 2 TD's were off Pitt TO's...first was a defensive score and the other was a 29 yard drive.

We lost the lead because of a Ray Rice fumble on the first drive of the second half (on a pass play). By the way...first play of this drive was a pass play where Joe was sacked and immediately put us in 2nd and 3rd and long...Cam should stop being conservative and shouldn't have told Ray to fumble I guess.

Second drive of second half started off with a sack on a PA...PA on first is something so many people have been crying for...and it completely took away any momentum in that drive. Cam stop being conservative with PA pass plays on first down!

First play of the 3rd drive was a bad overthrow by Joe...another pass on first down that immediately turned into a turnover. What a conservative play call.

Tie Game. Not a hint of conservatism in that half whatsoever.

Want to keep going?...first play of the 4th drive was...guess what? A Passing play! Incomplete! Second play fumbled snap.

Now the lead is gone.

How in the hell can you nutjobs blame him for that clusterfuck?

don't blame him for that at all, that was the players and maybe in hind sight he should have gone more conservative since Pitt last year at least was not built to come back against big leads but do you think they can just do the run run pass and punt against NE, NO, GB with a two TD lead and win? See I think Cameron's main issue is he is unsure of when to be conservative and when to keep the gas pedal down and that is not good.

[Raveninwoodlawn]

They sure do, you being one of them. There were three turnovers in that quarter, only one was an interception. The others were a fumble by Rice, the only fumble he had all year and the other a bad exchange at center. Teh RAvens won yesterday that is all that matters but if they go conservative against a team like New England or in the Super Bowl should they make it against New Orleans and Green Bay, they will lose. It was shutdown too early yesterday and it nearly bit them in the ass.

At some point, you have to trust that your players will throw an accurate pass to the right player and that we will catch the ball and hold onto it. Also have to take in account that the OL will hold up and your fumbling QB won't put the ball on the ground.

Joe is WAY too innacurate from drive to drive and half to half, the OL protection is erratic and our WR's struggle to get open and then to catch the ball. Yet all that continues to say to some of you is to continue to throw the ball. We did that in the Jets game in almost threw the Jets back into the game. We did that against the Rams for some reason and Joe was VERY erratic. Everybody is saying that "we almost blew the game"...we have won every single game that we have lead at halftime...we have not blown any games so what we are doing is working. As for the Saints and Packers, well, I doubt we'd ever get to the point where we are leading by double digits, so that may be moot. Stop looking for stuff to complain about.

[Raveninwoodlawn]

don't blame him for that at all, that was the players and maybe in hind sight he should have gone more conservative since Pitt last year at least was not built to come back against big leads but do you think they can just do the run run pass and punt against NE, NO, GB with a two TD lead and win? See I think Cameron's main issue is he is unsure of when to be conservative and when to keep the gas pedal down and that is not good.

First, I doubt we get to a point where we have a 14+ lead against those teams so that is moot IMHO...and you play each game differently.

Second, sure you can keep throwing and wind up having turnovers, which are WAY worse than punts, or 3 and outs with NO TIME BEING TAKEN OFF THE CLOCK.

That's what I don't get, some of you act as if we keep throwing, nothing bad will happen and we will continue to score points. You don't take into account the players...Joe is as inconsistent a QB as there is in this league...not just from game to game, but from quarter to quarter and even drive to drive. He also has had a big fumbling problem this year and the OL has been hot and cold. AND we have a WR core that struggles to get open against press, man to man coverage and drops a TON of passes. Cam isn't working with Tom Brady with Green Bay's WR's and Houstons OL. Our passing game personnel has a lot of issues that make throwing the ball a challenge a lot of the time. Just because it worked on 2 drives in the first half doesn't mean that it is going to continue to work.

[RavenMan]

First, I doubt we get to a point where we have a 14+ lead against those teams so that is moot IMHO...and you play each game differently.

Second, sure you can keep throwing and wind up having turnovers, which are WAY worse than punts, or 3 and outs with NO TIME BEING TAKEN OFF THE CLOCK.

That's what I don't get, some of you act as if we keep throwing, nothing bad will happen and we will continue to score points. You don't take into account the players...Joe is as inconsistent a QB as there is in this league...not just from game to game, but from quarter to quarter and even drive to drive. He also has had a big fumbling problem this year and the OL has been hot and cold. AND we have a WR core that struggles to get open against press, man to man coverage and drops a TON of passes. Cam isn't working with Tom Brady with Green Bay's WR's and Houstons OL. Our passing game personnel has a lot of issues that make throwing the ball a challenge a lot of the time. Just because it worked on 2 drives in the first half doesn't mean that it is going to continue to work.


It worked for two drives in the first half doesn't mean it won't either. Also while a TO is bad so is letting the defense keep getting gassed by being on the field too much and if Buffalo could get up by 3 scores so can the Ravens, anything can happen and while I agree it is unlikely to it is a concern if they do so and the defense gets gassed from being out there so much due to conservative calling. They are not playing against MCoy or Sanchez. It will be Brady and likely Brees or Rodgers if they make the Superbowl. Have they blown a lead this year. no? HAve they come close, yes. I am not saying that they should go pass pass pass, I don't understand why some of you think that is the idea we have when we say it is too conservative. Mix in a pass now and then on first down, try a screen on second. Pick up even one first down on some of those drive and the game yesterday is different. Plus factor this in, the special teams are bad on coverage and that is going to factor in if it keeps up, they need to sustain some more drives especially if only up by a little just to get some field position.

And yes, the passing game is not great for many reasons but again I am not saying to go pass happy, I am saying mix in a bit more, pick up a first down or two. One more thing, it is very likely that the Ravens do not get a 2 TD lead against the likes of a GB or NO or even NE but it is also very likely that they will have to pass at some point during this postseason to win and not just one drive but maybe the whole game.

They have not played one of the better QBs this year except for Rivers and he scorched them, if the defense is not up to that task and lately they have looked shaky they cannot go into the shell and do the predictable thing like yesterday if they want to win, it won't work this time.

[Raveninwoodlawn]

It worked for two drives in the first half doesn't mean it won't either. Also while a TO is bad so is letting the defense keep getting gassed by being on the field too much and if Buffalo could get up by 3 scores so can the Ravens, anything can happen and while I agree it is unlikely to it is a concern if they do so and the defense gets gassed from being out there so much due to conservative calling. They are not playing against MCoy or Sanchez. It will be Brady and likely Brees or Rodgers if they make the Superbowl. Have they blown a lead this year. no? HAve they come close, yes. I am not saying that they should go pass pass pass, I don't understand why some of you think that is the idea we have when we say it is too conservative. Mix in a pass now and then on first down, try a screen on second. Pick up even one first down on some of those drive and the game yesterday is different. Plus factor this in, the special teams are bad on coverage and that is going to factor in if it keeps up, they need to sustain some more drives especially if only up by a little just to get some field position.

And yes, the passing game is not great for many reasons but again I am not saying to go pass happy, I am saying mix in a bit more, pick up a first down or two. One more thing, it is very likely that the Ravens do not get a 2 TD lead against the likes of a GB or NO or even NE but it is also very likely that they will have to pass at some point during this postseason to win and not just one drive but maybe the whole game.

They have not played one of the better QBs this year except for Rivers and he scorched them, if the defense is not up to that task and lately they have looked shaky they cannot go into the shell and do the predictable thing like yesterday if they want to win, it won't work this time.

Well, the thing is that many of you have this false opinion that the majority of our drives in the second half are run, run, pass. That is not true.

Second, did Buffalo win that game? They kept passing...how did that work out for them?

Third, have we blown a lead this year and lost?

Each game is different and we'll see how it goes from here on out, but some of you are acting as if we've blown leads left and right, and we have a 2:1 run to pass ratio...when we haven't and we don't.

[LukeDaniel]

Is this really a thread? :Flush: Flacco was outstanding yesterday. Cam called a near perfect game. We played smart football all game.

I wonder what the Raven record is under Harbaugh when we play "conservatively"? I know it's pushing a 90% winning percentage and, if that's not indication enough for some of you as to the value of running the ball versus throwing it, I don't know what else to tell you. If we had been conservative and committed more to the run and less to the pass against JAX and SEA, we wouldn't have even needed to win yesterday to guarantee anything.

[Justlovemybirds]

Is this really a thread? :Flush: Flacco was outstanding yesterday. Cam called a near perfect game. We played smart football all game.

I wonder what the Raven record is under Harbaugh when we play "conservatively"? I know it's pushing a 90% winning percentage and, if that's not indication enough for some of you as to the value of running the ball versus throwing it, I don't know what else to tell you. If we had been conservative and committed more to the run and less to the pass against JAX and SEA, we wouldn't have even needed to win yesterday to guarantee anything.

:word

[NOLARavenFAN]

Yesterday they were obviously play-calling according to the wind.....throwing in the first and fourth quarters. We won the game when the Bengals could only get 7 with the wind behind them in the 3rd Quarter, IMO.

[Ravenswintitle]

Is this really a thread? :Flush: Flacco was outstanding yesterday. Cam called a near perfect game. We played smart football all game.

I wonder what the Raven record is under Harbaugh when we play "conservatively"? I know it's pushing a 90% winning percentage and, if that's not indication enough for some of you as to the value of running the ball versus throwing it, I don't know what else to tell you. If we had been conservative and committed more to the run and less to the pass against JAX and SEA, we wouldn't have even needed to win yesterday to guarantee anything.

Agreed, it was the right gameplan for the opponent and conditions and it worked out perfectly. Lovin' it!

[RavenousD]

Cam loses if we pass, Cam loses if we run. Anyone remember Cavanaugh? I have been on the Cam Sucks kick the last couple of weeks, but I must admit I am wrong about a lot of things. We swept the division, won the north, even I can admit Cam must know something. Are we the most prolific offense? No. But we are a winning team.

[ravensinva]

We didn't lose last year because we threw the ball.

It was actually Rice who started the whole mess by fumbling.

correct. And Flacco throw a pick and fumbled all on our side of the field.

[Filmstudy]

This isn't for the OP or the guys who understand football, but for those of you who complain about why we go somewhat conservative...

WTF? Did you guys watch the game last year? (http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/gametracker/playbyplay/NFL_20110115_BAL@PIT)

We did not lose that game because we went "conservative". Some of you are absolutely ridiculous with this Cam Bullshit.

We lost that game because we had only 1 legit drive all game long and turnovers.

We had ONE scoring drive longer than 29 yards! And that drive was aided by a PI call. We had 129 yards all game long...including the first half. 2 TD's were off Pitt TO's...first was a defensive score and the other was a 29 yard drive.

We lost the lead because of a Ray Rice fumble on the first drive of the second half (on a pass play). By the way...first play of this drive was a pass play where Joe was sacked and immediately put us in 2nd and 3rd and long...Cam should stop being conservative and shouldn't have told Ray to fumble I guess.

Second drive of second half started off with a sack on a PA...PA on first is something so many people have been crying for...and it completely took away any momentum in that drive. Cam stop being conservative with PA pass plays on first down!

First play of the 3rd drive was a bad overthrow by Joe...another pass on first down that immediately turned into a turnover. What a conservative play call.

Tie Game. Not a hint of conservatism in that half whatsoever.

Want to keep going?...first play of the 4th drive was...guess what? A Passing play! Incomplete! Second play fumbled snap.

Now the lead is gone.

How in the hell can you nutjobs blame him for that clusterfuck?

I'm with you on this. 126 yards is not going to win many NFL games. Frankly, given the total yardage in the game, it's amazing the final was 31-24.

But there is a problem which is much broader than Cam. NFL-wide, the leading team reduces their own chance to win with "conservative" decisions. The conservative is in quotes because you really need to think about what you are trying to conserve and that should be win probability. All with-the-lead strategies need to be judged relative to their ability to improve win probability. Generally speaking, run-only offense versus 9-in-the-box defense is not as effective as balanced offense in any but kneel situations at improving win probability.

That said, on 1/15/11, the Ravens lost due to offensive failure, not conservatism.

For those so inclined, I'd like to suggest you visit a site which has win probabilities on a play-by-play basis:

http://live.advancednflstats.com/index.php?gameid1=2012010102

There are older games there as well and a calculator you can play around with to get a good idea of win probabilities late in a game. If you just go through the Ravens games you can see the plays that had the biggest impact on each game.

[Corey]

It depends on the team your playing. Against the Pats, they are going to have to continue to be aggressive and try to put more points on the board because Brady can explode at any moment. Same thing against the Steelers. Against the Bengals and their rookie QB that has yet to prove that he can overcome a double digit deficit and lead his team to a win vs a good defense, you do go conservative.

[pslholder96]

You can't completely take the air out of the ball with 25 minutes to go.

Maybe but the windy conditions and Boldin's absence definately had an effect. Saw a stat on ESPN that said Pitta and Dickinson were on the field together 73% of the time. That's not normal because through the first 15 games it was around 32%.

[iggyman555]

It depends on the team your playing. Against the Pats, they are going to have to continue to be aggressive and try to put more points on the board because Brady can explode at any moment. Same thing against the Steelers. Against the Bengals and their rookie QB that has yet to prove that he can overcome a double digit deficit and lead his team to a win vs a good defense, you do go conservative.

someone is making sense :respect

[GOTA]

You didn't even mention Boldin's drop TD and Housh's 4th down drop. Oh yea, didn't the Steelers convert a 3rd and 25 or something outrageous?

You're right. It was undisciplined and sloppy play that lost that game. So many players melted under the pressure.

[Haloti92]

This isn't for the OP or the guys who understand football, but for those of you who complain about why we go somewhat conservative...

WTF? Did you guys watch the game last year? (http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/gametracker/playbyplay/NFL_20110115_BAL@PIT)

We did not lose that game because we went "conservative". Some of you are absolutely ridiculous with this Cam Bullshit.

We lost that game because we had only 1 legit drive all game long and turnovers.

We had ONE scoring drive longer than 29 yards! And that drive was aided by a PI call. We had 129 yards all game long...including the first half. 2 TD's were off Pitt TO's...first was a defensive score and the other was a 29 yard drive.

We lost the lead because of a Ray Rice fumble on the first drive of the second half (on a pass play). By the way...first play of this drive was a pass play where Joe was sacked and immediately put us in 2nd and 3rd and long...Cam should stop being conservative and shouldn't have told Ray to fumble I guess.

Second drive of second half started off with a sack on a PA...PA on first is something so many people have been crying for...and it completely took away any momentum in that drive. Cam stop being conservative with PA pass plays on first down!

First play of the 3rd drive was a bad overthrow by Joe...another pass on first down that immediately turned into a turnover. What a conservative play call.

Tie Game. Not a hint of conservatism in that half whatsoever.

Want to keep going?...first play of the 4th drive was...guess what? A Passing play! Incomplete! Second play fumbled snap.

Now the lead is gone.

How in the hell can you nutjobs blame him for that clusterfuck?

You do realize that the OP was asserting that we lost that game due to NOT going conservative (in order to attempt to rebut those that claim we shouldn't go conservative)?

I haven't seen anyone claim we lost that game due to being conservative, but perhaps I missed it.

[Raveninwoodlawn]

You do realize that the OP was asserting that we lost that game due to NOT going conservative (in order to attempt to rebut those that claim we shouldn't go conservative)?

I haven't seen anyone claim we lost that game due to being conservative, but perhaps I missed it.

Please read the first sentence in my post again please.

It wasn't even really about that game per-se...it's about the nonstop "conservative" stuff all over the board.

[Haloti92]

Please read the first sentence in my post again please.

It wasn't even really about that game per-se...it's about the nonstop "conservative" stuff all over the board.

I read it. But I still don't see how that game is relevant. The OP tried to imply that the result can be blamed on failing to be 'conservative.' But you helped blow that argument out of the water.

You also said "We did not lose that game because we went 'conservative'. Some of you are absolutely ridiculous with this Cam Bullshit." But of course no one ever said we lost that game because we went conservative (as far as I can see).

It isn't a big deal, but I don't think your post made any kind of rebuttal to those that think a) we go conservative on offense with leads and b) it has/might cost us.

[Captain Offense]

"Conservative" is a relative term. If you pass short gainers that act like the run, and also run to chew up the clock, are you playing "conservative"? If you keep the opposing offense off the field by long, sustained drives, are you playing "conservative"? If you play field position because of the weather?

I do not believe that the Ravens can get into a shoot-out with Brady or Rodgers or Brees. If they control the clock with a conservative offense and keep the other team off the field, I am fine with that. The key is execution to sustain those drives. Convert on third down and do not turn the ball over. If that constitutes "conservative", then so be it. But the pass to Evans was a strike that is not conservative and could have been a dagger. Catch the ball and it can work to be daring. Picking the spots to operate outside the box can still make a "conservative" offense a good one.