OT: Arthur Jones Brother, Jon Jones, beats Rashad Evans

[iggyman555]

Well done!

http://espn.go.com/mma/story/_/id/7841702/ufc-145-jon-jones-retains-world-light-heavyweight-title-win-rashad-evans

[GOTA]

Bones Jones is the best there is right now

[TheJoeFlaccoShow]

No one can beat him, he is on a different level.

Kid is a flat out phenom.

Every opponent that was going to be "the one" to give him a fight has gotten destroyed.

Evans should be happy he made it 5 rounds, that was a victory in and of itself.

[JAB1985]

Unfortunately i didnt get to see it. I figured rashads speed and familiarity would at least give him some problems but doesnt sound like it did at all. Bones is probably my favorite fighter and his brother being a raven is just a bonus. I would like to see him at HW which i think is his plan by the.end of the year. Be interesting if his skills translate. Personally i dont thinks hes big/strong enough.

[Haloti92]

Next up for Bones is another one of my favorites, 41-year-old Hendo.

I would pay to see that one just because Hendo is a psycho and usually doesn't do much dancing or running. Bones should kill him, but Hendo has some epic wins despite being around forever.

[Sirdowski]

No doubt the kids making his name known, but I wouldn't say he's the best there is just yet. This was his first fight with a worthy adversary, and it went to decision. Silva on the other hand has completely destroyed the best for years.

31-4 Speaks for itself. 18 knockouts and 7 submissions no less.

[Kevlar]

Bones Jones is the best there is right now

In his weight class. He is an exciting fighter, but I prefer the pride grand prix format where "the best" was actually decided.

[HoustonRaven]

He's essentially undefeated. Bones only loss came from a DQ from using downward elbows.

He's not quite at the level of Silva but he's definitely on that path.

Hendo will be one of the hardest strikers he's ever faced. Will be interesting to see if Hendo can be the one who finally gets past that monstrous reach Bones has.

[TheJoeFlaccoShow]

No doubt the kids making his name known, but I wouldn't say he's the best there is just yet. This was his first fight with a worthy adversary, and it went to decision. Silva on the other hand has completely destroyed the best for years.
.

Right, because Shogun, Rampage, Machida and Bader are all bums.

Here are the light heavyweight rankings.

1. Jon Jones (15-1)

2. Dan Henderson (29-8) WILL OPEN AS A MASSIVE FAVORITE (-500, he was only -400 vs Evans)

3. Rashad Evans (17-1-1) BEAT

4. Mauricio “Shogun” Rua (20-6) BEAT

5. Lyoto Machida (17-3) BEAT

6. Phil Davis (9-1) BEAT

7. Ryan Bader (14-2) BEAT

8.Quinton “Rampage” Jackson (32-10) BEAT

9. Alexander Gustafsson (13-1) LOL

10. Forest Griffin (18-7) LOL

[NCRAVEN]

Jones fought Phil Davis?

[NCRAVEN]

Silva on the other hand has completely destroyed the best for years.

31-4 Speaks for itself. 18 knockouts and 7 submissions no less.

Silva is the best IMO as well. I am a huge Bones fan and have been since I saw him beat Bonner ( I knew he would be great watching that fight).

If Bones and Silva were to fight, I think it would be close but I'd go Silve 3rd tko.

[HoustonRaven]

Jones fought Phil Davis?

Good catch.

He certainly did not.

[Justlovemybirds]

Silva is the best IMO as well. I am a huge Bones fan and have been since I saw him beat Bonner ( I knew he would be great watching that fight).

If Bones and Silva were to fight, I think it would be close but I'd go Silve 3rd tko.


No doubt the kids making his name known, but I wouldn't say he's the best there is just yet. This was his first fight with a worthy adversary, and it went to decision. Silva on the other hand has completely destroyed the best for years.

31-4 Speaks for itself. 18 knockouts and 7 submissions no less.

Not to mention Silva managed to jump up a weight class a couple of times and still dominate. I'd love to see Bones against Overeem though.

[JAB1985]

I like anderson as well but its not like hes faced the greatest competition either. Chael beat the shit out of him for 4.5, still lost though. Hendo was similar. Vitor still isnt the old vitor and never will be again, although that was awesome. I just look at his record and who has he faced thats actually good and in their prime. Could be fedor pt 2. Give him somebody that meets both criteria and he loses 3 in a row. I do think hes one of the best, just not sure if its due him being good or lack of competition. Frankly chael osnt even that good. Griffin and the other 205 lber are pretty horrible so it was fun to watch but i didnt put much stock into it.

Not saying bones is better yet but i dont think you can knock who hes faced without knocking who anderson has.

[Sgt CouchPotato]

jones is the man, but when you got a 12+ inch reach advantage on nearly every opponent...makes it look a lot easier

[HoustonRaven]

Not to mention Silva managed to jump up a weight class a couple of times and still dominate. I'd love to see Bones against Overeem though.

That would have to be a catch weight fight. And Overeem would murder him. It wouldn't be close to a fair fight simply because of the weight disparity.

[Justlovemybirds]

That would have to be a catch weight fight. And Overeem would murder him. It wouldn't be close to a fair fight simply because of the weight disparity.

It seems to be a foregone conclusion that he's going to eventually go HW so I was proposing the fight from that standpoint, Jones would no doubt be destroyed fighting at his current weight.

[HoustonRaven]

It seems to be a foregone conclusion that he's going to eventually go HW so I was proposing the fight from that standpoint, Jones would no doubt be destroyed fighting at his current weight.

His walking around weight is 200 - 205. Overeems is something like 240 - 250. Bones has become so famous he'd need not even consider a move to heavyweight.

IMO, it would be very similar to the Couture / Lesnar fight in terms of weight disparity.

[NCRAVEN]

I like anderson as well but its not like hes faced the greatest competition either. Chael beat the shit out of him for 4.5, still lost though. Hendo was similar. Vitor still isnt the old vitor and never will be again, although that was awesome. I just look at his record and who has he faced thats actually good and in their prime. Could be fedor pt 2. Give him somebody that meets both criteria and he loses 3 in a row. I do think hes one of the best, just not sure if its due him being good or lack of competition. Frankly chael osnt even that good. Griffin and the other 205 lber are pretty horrible so it was fun to watch but i didnt put much stock into it.

Not saying bones is better yet but i dont think you can knock who hes faced without knocking who anderson has.

2 things. Anderson was told not to fight that night due to a rib injury. And IIRC, didn't Sonnen test positive for steroids after that fight?

[NCRAVEN]

His walking around weight is 200 - 205. Overeems is something like 240 - 250. Bones has become so famous he'd need not even consider a move to heavyweight.

IMO, it would be very similar to the Couture / Lesnar fight in terms of weight disparity.

I agree, Jones is way too lean to move up and fight guys weighing 250 +. I think he could hang with some of them due to his reach and skills but eventually when you have a guy that has 40 -60 pounds wrestling you, you can only do so much.

I don't think Jones ever leaves 205.

[Justlovemybirds]

His walking around weight is 200 - 205. Overeems is something like 240 - 250. Bones has become so famous he'd need not even consider a move to heavyweight.

IMO, it would be very similar to the Couture / Lesnar fight in terms of weight disparity.

I've heard him say a few times that he cuts from about 220-225 (http://espn.go.com/sportsnation/chat/_/id/41663/ufc-champ-jon-jones) (scroll down a few). I agree that he really doesn't benefit from jumping up a weight class but it looks as if he has a good chance of running through the LHW's, after Hendo there's Gustaffson? Davis? nobody of a real challenge (although Gustaffson will at least match him size-wise.)

[JAB1985]

2 things. Anderson was told not to fight that night due to a rib injury. And IIRC, didn't Sonnen test positive for steroids after that fight?

convenient excuse after a poor performance which about 80% of the fighters come up with one way or another. I dont think many of them go into a fight 100%, camps are too hard and cutting weight doesnt help. Sonnen did test positive eventhough hes on TRT (which unfortuntely is a side effect of cutting weight over the years) but my point is he isnt really that good even on TRT. you can say he looked great against Forrest and Belfort and Irvin and Okami , but he also looked down right mediocre against the likes of patrick cote and demian maia Travis Lutter and Thales Leites. I dont think that the level of talent hes faced just makes him the unquestioned number one when you look at who Bones has faced that should atleast not be the argument why one is PforP and the other isnt. IMO, Jones has fought better talent in his last 5 fights than Silva has. Doesnt mean he isnt the best fighter, just that its not a good argument to say Jones isnt better because he hasnt faced the best fighters. Fighting the previous 4 champions all still in their prime his last 4 fights and an undefeated up and comer is better than Silvas Okami (whos solid but not elite) Belfort (a shell of his former self) Sonnen (solid but not really amazing) Maia (good BJJ but nothing else) and Griffin (who i love but isnt really that talented).


I agree, Jones is way too lean to move up and fight guys weighing 250 +. I think he could hang with some of them due to his reach and skills but eventually when you have a guy that has 40 -60 pounds wrestling you, you can only do so much.

I don't think Jones ever leaves 205.

Not only are they stronger but hell lose that reach advantage as well. Right now hes getting a huge advantage in that category, the bigger HWs will make that much much less. Staying at 205 or maybe dropping to 185 if he can are really his better options. although i think he likes the challenge of fighting HW.

[HoustonRaven]

Silva has not fought anyone of note lately because he's already ran through two divisions with relative ease. He hasn't fought anyone because there isn't anyone left to fight. And he's beaten plenty of dudes "in their primes" just like Bones is doing now.

Back to Bones .... Couture said recently he believes that Chael could beat Bones and I tend to agree with him. Chael as stepped up his game in the last few years. He can put on weight fairly well and, after what we saw in the Silva fight, he knows how to beat a guy with superior reach, the end of that fight not withstanding.

BTW, Chael did not test positive for steroids. He tested positive for elevated testosterone. No illicit substance was ever found in his body.

[JAB1985]

Silva has not fought anyone of note lately because he's already ran through two divisions with relative ease. He hasn't fought anyone because there isn't anyone left to fight. And he's beaten plenty of dudes "in their primes" just like Bones is doing now.

Id argue hes dominated the weakest division in the UFC even if you do consider them in their prime. Rich Franklin owned that division until silva came around and hes garbage. So yes hes cleaned it out, but it wasnt much to begin with. now if he took on more fights at 205, a much stronger division, that would be more impressive to me. Beating forest griffin and James Irvin doesnt mean hes cleaned out two divisions. Griffin and Irvin arent very good and neither are sniffing contention.

Youre right about TRT not being illegal. Its not the same even if it has similar implications.

[NCRAVEN]

I like Bones a lot, and I like Silva a lot too. I am not basing my opinion of who is better based solely on who they beat.

That said, Rashad Evans has been overrated since he started fighting(doesn't mean he's not good, just overrated). Same with Bader, who is not just overrated but he is just not that good. Jackson is past his prime, and what made him good (his aggressiveness) he no longer has. SO Jones is beating guys in their prime, and beating some of the best (Machida) but not everyone he is fighting is the best and also in their prime.

[JAB1985]

I like Bones a lot, and I like Silva a lot too. I am not basing my opinion of who is better based solely on who they beat.

That said, Rashad Evans has been overrated since he started fighting(doesn't mean he's not good, just overrated). Same with Bader, who is not just overrated but he is just not that good. Jackson is past his prime, and what made him good (his aggressiveness) he no longer has. SO Jones is beating guys in their prime, and beating some of the best (Machida) but not everyone he is fighting is the best and also in their prime.

fair enough. Id agree Jackson is past. Machida probably isnt the best now that he seems to have been figured out. I do think Shogun has been impressive since reviving his career, although Jones did get him on short notice. I always like Rashad, but i dont think hes the same fighter since he left Jacksons camp. Hes very good and probably can linger around, but im not sure he wouldnt be better suited at 185.

personally i like both of them, I dont think Jones is P for P yet and im not sure id just anoint Silva either eventhough hes certainly worthy. I like GSP a lot in that role even though he hasnt finished in a while hes always been dominant. between the 3 I dont think you can really go wrong. Id probably say Silva is because hes done more at multiple weights even if it wasnt much. Its hard to say a HW could be P for P imo but JDS might make an argument for himself before its all over.

[Sirdowski]

In my eyes Rashad was his best competition yet simply because he is one of the best wrestlers in the sport, and that's an area where Jones not only struggles, but his reach is mitigated.


Jones is cleaning up in an aging and weak weight class in the UFC. With the growing popularity of the sport I have confidence we are going to see many more fighters similar to Jones, and the competition will begin to refresh.

I agree to an extent about their competition, but Jones is fighting guys significantly farther from their prime. If you consider their competition to be equally weak than compare the manner in which they have won. Silva is untouchable when compared in that sense. His first fight determined by decision was his 9th fight in the UFC. Adding to that, he's only ever had two determined by decision, both could have been avoided had he not been toying with his opponents, to which he received much criticism by Dana White. Jones' first two fights in the UFC went to decision. Silva didn't have a fight last out of the second round until his 8th fight.
Silva has simply dominated the UFC in the "once in an era" fashion that resembles the all time greats of any other sport, as all the greats do, he transcends the sport.


Contrary to popular uninformed UFC fans belief, the Chael fight proved Silva is as close to invincible in the octagon as anyone could ever be. It proved every critic wrong that said if someone could go blow for blow with Silva they could take him down, because he makes his money avoiding and handing out strikes, not absorbing them. Anyone who watched the fight could tell something was wrong. I don't take anything away from Chael, as he is undoubtedly one of the best wrestlers in the sport, Silva was doing nothing to keep the fight off the ground where Chael dominates. With cracked ribs, he was outstruck by Sonnen 320-66 times, 161 of those strikes being blows to the head, (66 power, 185 jabs) and somehow still managed to submit Chael in the closing minute of the 5th round.

If Silva was younger their is no doubt in my mind he would move up, fight, and defeat Jones with relative ease. Jones is inexperienced and sloppy, and his reach would be completely negated by Silva's unearthly ability to counter strike. I understand the UFC is now mainstream and has a whole new audience of casual sports fans. Sports fans who, as most do, obsess over the "eyeball test," which Jones obviously passes with flying colors. However, you can't simply hand over the crown when the king is alive and well; albeit 37 years old.

[Sirdowski]

Links:

http://www.mmamania.com/2010/8/8/1612015/fightmetric-ufc-117-stats-chael

http://espn.com/mma/fighter/_/id/2335447/anderson-silva

http://espn.com/mma/fighter/history/_/id/2335639/jon-jones

[TheJoeFlaccoShow]

We get it, you don't like Jones and think Silva is God.

After all he could just jump up a weight class and dispose of Jones with ease LOL.

Jones is just an overrated hype machine who will get exposed eventually because he fights bums. Just a creation of the UFC marketing machine to fool us all.

[HoustonRaven]

We get it, you don't like Jones and think Silva is God.

Hyperbole much?

That's not even close to what he said or claimed.

[JAB1985]

In my eyes Rashad was his best competition yet simply because he is one of the best wrestlers in the sport, and that's an area where Jones not only struggles, but his reach is mitigated.


Jones is cleaning up in an aging and weak weight class in the UFC. With the growing popularity of the sport I have confidence we are going to see many more fighters similar to Jones, and the competition will begin to refresh.

I agree to an extent about their competition, but Jones is fighting guys significantly farther from their prime. If you consider their competition to be equally weak than compare the manner in which they have won. Silva is untouchable when compared in that sense. His first fight determined by decision was his 9th fight in the UFC. Adding to that, he's only ever had two determined by decision, both could have been avoided had he not been toying with his opponents, to which he received much criticism by Dana White. Jones' first two fights in the UFC went to decision. Silva didn't have a fight last out of the second round until his 8th fight.
Silva has simply dominated the UFC in the "once in an era" fashion that resembles the all time greats of any other sport, as all the greats do, he transcends the sport.


Contrary to popular uninformed UFC fans belief, the Chael fight proved Silva is as close to invincible in the octagon as anyone could ever be. It proved every critic wrong that said if someone could go blow for blow with Silva they could take him down, because he makes his money avoiding and handing out strikes, not absorbing them. Anyone who watched the fight could tell something was wrong. I don't take anything away from Chael, as he is undoubtedly one of the best wrestlers in the sport, Silva was doing nothing to keep the fight off the ground where Chael dominates. With cracked ribs, he was outstruck by Sonnen 320-66 times, 161 of those strikes being blows to the head, (66 power, 185 jabs) and somehow still managed to submit Chael in the closing minute of the 5th round.

If Silva was younger their is no doubt in my mind he would move up, fight, and defeat Jones with relative ease. Jones is inexperienced and sloppy, and his reach would be completely negated by Silva's unearthly ability to counter strike. I understand the UFC is now mainstream and has a whole new audience of casual sports fans. Sports fans who, as most do, obsess over the "eyeball test," which Jones obviously passes with flying colors. However, you can't simply hand over the crown when the king is alive and well; albeit 37 years old.

so you consider those wins over Maia, Leites and Cote "once in an era"? I think hes one of the top 3 in the sport right now without question, but i dont think hes invincible by any stretch, nor do I think Jones or GSP are for that matter.

As far as not being touched his first fights, i think that just goes to show how weak the division was. Looking at there finishing record, theyre pretty even for their careers and jones has been finishing fights after those first two decisions up until this fight (7 in a row would be 9 if Mazigatti wasnt an idiot and asking a deaf guy not looking at him if he was ok to continue).
12 of 16 fights finished (75%)
24 of 31 fights finished (77%)

I cant say i agree that Jones if fighting guys significantly further from their prime than those that Anderson is. At worst id say both are comparable and should be a moot point. besides Sonnen im not sure you cant argue any of his fights were against guys in their primes. outside Jackson and Machida i think there is fair argument to say those guys were in their primes or atleast right outside.

FTR Jon Jones was JUCO Wrestling champion. He might not be the strongest, but he certainly isnt weak in that area.

[TheJoeFlaccoShow]

Hyperbole much?

That's not even close to what he said or claimed.

He said Silva was "invincible" and berated Jones throughout his entire post.

What exactly would you call that?

[HoustonRaven]

He said Silva was "invincible" and berated Jones throughout his entire post.

What exactly would you call that?

That's not what he said. Go back and re-read it. He said ....

"the Chael fight proved Silva is as close to invincible in the octagon as anyone could ever be."

I don't happen to agree with it either but that's a valid, debatable point.

[Sirdowski]

I have zero animosity toward Jones. How could anyone? Absolutely clean as a whistle and a class act. The fight before last he stopped a mugging in the parking lot before the fight. I mean come on, you can't write that stuff. He is the new face of the UFC, and I couldn't be happier to see an awesome role model in a sport that often gets a bad rep. However, I was just pointing out a pesky thing called history, and the general tendency to ignore it because of shiny new things that distract us from it.

[Sirdowski]

so you consider those wins over Maia, Leites and Cote "once in an era"? I think hes one of the top 3 in the sport right now without question, but i dont think hes invincible by any stretch, nor do I think Jones or GSP are for that matter.

Leites and Maia were results of Silva being a brat because Dana White wouldnt let him go straight for the title in light-heavy. They were nearly as embarrassing as Silva , simply because it was painfully obvious they were terrified to be the aggressors. Cote blew out his ACL with Silva dominating the fight.


As far as not being touched his first fights, i think that just goes to show how weak the division was. Looking at there finishing record, theyre pretty even for their careers and jones has been finishing fights after those first two decisions up until this fight (7 in a row would be 9 if Mazigatti wasnt an idiot and asking a deaf guy not looking at him if he was ok to continue).
12 of 16 fights finished (75%)
24 of 31 fights finished (77%)

I cant say i agree that Jones if fighting guys significantly further from their prime than those that Anderson is. At worst id say both are comparable and should be a moot point. besides Sonnen im not sure you cant argue any of his fights were against guys in their primes. outside Jackson and Machida i think there is fair argument to say those guys were in their primes or atleast right out.

Fair enough. Wouldn't say Silva has fought anyone of 40 year old Matyushenkos caliber though. But as I said, If we agree the competition between the two of then has been equal how else can we judge them? Silva has annihilated his competition. Embarrassed them even. Griffin- Silva was the most embarrassing UFC fight I've ever watched. Forrest, who had previously gone 5 rounds with one of the hardest strikers in UFC history (Rampage) wanted no part of Silva, and was done after a jab to the chin.

[JAB1985]

Leites and Maia were results of Silva being a brat because Dana White wouldnt let him go straight for the title in light-heavy. They were nearly as embarrassing as Silva , simply because it was painfully obvious they were terrified to be the aggressors. Cote blew out his ACL with Silva dominating the fight.



Fair enough. Wouldn't say Silva has fought anyone of 40 year old Matyushenkos caliber though. But as I said, If we agree the competition between the two of then has been equal how else can we judge them? Silva has annihilated his competition. Embarrassed them even. Griffin- Silva was the most embarrassing UFC fight I've ever watched. Forrest, who had previously gone 5 rounds with one of the hardest strikers in UFC history (Rampage) wanted no part of Silva, and was done after a jab to the chin.

I think its really impossible to figure out pound for pound until they catch weight or change classes. I think those 3 deserve to be in the convo but im not there can be a clear cut winner. Silva is maybe he closest to separating himself but jones has plenty of impressive sroppages as well. Hendo wins you can probably add him to the discussion even though hes got a few more losses, hes been from 170 to HW.

[Sirdowski]

I think its really impossible to figure out pound for pound until they catch weight or change classes. I think those 3 deserve to be in the convo but im not there can be a clear cut winner. Silva is maybe he closest to separating himself but jones has plenty of impressive sroppages as well. Hendo wins you can probably add him to the discussion even though hes got a few more losses, hes been from 170 to HW.

Agreed. It should suffice to say they all make it look easy.

[Sirdowski]

He said Silva was "invincible" and berated Jones throughout his entire post.

What exactly would you call that?

Since I was obviously way off, how would you describe a fighter considered the most lethal striker/ submission artist, who has shown he can go 5 rounds with cracked ribs, while being hit with nearly 200 head shots and win?

[Purple nurple]

Their youngest brother, Chandler Jones, is expected to be a high draft pick this year(top 100). Their mother must be proud

[dandrews]

Jones vs Silva needs to happen. He's the only reasonable opponent that can even challenge Bones right now.

A Jones vs Silva fight would probably be one of the most watched fights ever as well. It's a win for everyone.

[JAB1985]

Jones vs Silva needs to happen. He's the only reasonable opponent that can even challenge Bones right now.

A Jones vs Silva fight would probably be one of the most watched fights ever as well. It's a win for everyone.

Haha. Art jones is super heavy weight. Didnt our own buddy lee beat him wrestling? Speaking of those brothers... I wonder what tussles looked like in that house?