The Giants lost to the Bengals, the 49ers to the Rams, and the Steelers to Oakland and Tennessee...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Corey

The Ravens coaching staff is damned if they do and damned if they don't. When they get aggressive and we lose people bitch too. Perfect example, the The hair's strip sack of Flacco in 2009. The Ravens were going for the first down in that situation, a first down that all but ices the game. They were playing to win the game. But Polamalu made a great play and every one bitched and moaned all week about how the Ravens should have been playing not lose and run the ball in that situation. Like I said, damned if you do and if you don't. Hell even when the Ravens win people bitch. People are going to bitch no matter what the team does. That's what happens in a spoiled fan base.

---

IIRC the reason The Hair makes that play is that the left side of the OL screwed up its assignments. The next year at Heinz Field, Flacco had time to hit Housh in the EZ for the winning score because Heap saw Polamullet blitzing & came across the formation to punk him. If you're going to take a chance you should at least execute it properly--otherwise you're just being foolish. (Cf. Oakland going for it on 4th down near midfield in the 1st quarter of their game here--gutsy & probably very heady call, but you can't have your QB tripped by his own lineman as he takes the snap.)

IMHO you are way off based with your complaints about a "spolied fan base." Ravens fans have been told over & over for years now that their FO drafts exceptionally well & is (collectively) a top-notch judge of talent & handles the cap superbly to assemble year-in & year-out a roster with significantly better talent than the league average. A team with better than average talent ought to be winning more often than not, and ought to be competitive in the playoffs on a regular basis. That's being logical, not spoiled.

Now if you want to argue that the talent is in fact not there, go right ahead. I haven't been terribly happy with the last few drafts & some of the personnel decisions that have been made & I am starting to wonder if it isn't time for Bama to ease Mal Moore into retirement so that Oz can hand things over to deCosta & take over as their AD. But if you have no quibbles with the abilities of the guys on the roster, then you have to look elsewhere for the mostly uninspiring performace of the team this year, & my money is on the "lions led by donkeys" conjecture.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by lobachevsky

IMHO you are way off based with your complaints about a "spolied fan base." Ravens fans have been told over & over for years now that their FO drafts exceptionally well & is (collectively) a top-notch judge of talent & handles the cap superbly to assemble year-in & year-out a roster with significantly better talent than the league average. A team with better than average talent ought to be winning more often than not, and ought to be competitive in the playoffs on a regular basis. That's being logical, not spoiled.

---

Last I checked we do win way more than we lose and have gone deep in playoffs every year under Harbs. So the team is doing exactly what they SHOULD be doing, but for some people, that's not good enough. Despite being a dropped pass from the SuperBowl last year and having the second best record in the AFC this year, people are calling for wholesale coaching firings and for our QB to be replaced. That's spoiled. Plain and simple. It's a shitty, entitled, and unreasonable way to be a fan.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ActualSpamBot

Last I checked we do win way more than we lose and have gone deep in playoffs every year under Harbs. So the team is doing exactly what they SHOULD be doing, but for some people, that's not good enough. Despite being a dropped pass from the SuperBowl last year and having the second best record in the AFC this year, people are calling for wholesale coaching firings and for our QB to be replaced. That's spoiled. Plain and simple. It's a shitty, entitled, and unreasonable way to be a fan.

---

:word

Put pressure on this coaching staff and they'll often brain lock, they'll choke.

When we win those dramatic games by driving down the field to score the winning TD or FG, or hold onto a slim lead through our defense, it's usually the players making big plays/stops, and almost never because of a brilliant decision or adjustment by our coaches.

They're the Tony Romo of coaches.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by PerpetuallyBored74

Put pressure on this coaching staff and they'll often brain lock, they'll choke.

When we win those dramatic games by driving down the field to score the winning TD or FG, or hold onto a slim lead through our defense, it's usually the players making big plays/stops, and almost never because of a brilliant decision or adjustment by our coaches.

They're the Tony Romo of coaches.

---

Oh. But it's Harbaugh's fault that Kruger drew a roughing the passer penalty that put the Steelers in field goal range on that last drive. It is Harbaugh's fault that Flacco throws the ball into double or triple coverage. If it's the players that make the plays it is also the players that blow the plays.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Corey

Oh. But it's Harbaugh's fault that Kruger drew a roughing the passer penalty that put the Steelers in field goal range on that last drive. It is Harbaugh's fault that Flacco throws the ball into double or triple coverage. If it's the players that make the plays it is also the players that blow the plays.

---

I just watched the replay on NFL network, there were definitely plays that we just missed (read:the players messed up). BUT those are the plays we seem to consistently missing. That's were coaching needs to come in and it just hasn't changed. We keep doing the same thing over and over and keep missing the same shit.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ravenalytics

Point I'm trying to make is that everyone needs a little perspective. I know most of our wins haven't been pretty. But we're still 9-3. Every team has a couple of games where they just collapse.

I know most people think losing to Batch at home is unacceptable, but horrible losses like that aren't uncommon nor are they a total indictment of how good a coach and his staff is.

Everyone needs to breathe.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by bacchys

We lost to JAX and Seattle last year. We were Evans remembering how to squeeze a football from the Super Bowl.

This lost sucks, but it didn't end our playoff chances.

---

Yes, every good team has bad losses or close wins they had to eek out. I agree. The problem is that every good or great team also has stretches where they seem dominant and play 60 minutes of solid football for multiple games throughout a season...even teams that have had average regular seasons and caught fire at the end like the Giants have a few games where they put it all together. The Ravens have one game this year that they played 60 minutes of solid football against a good team (week 1 against Cincinnati) and on top of that it was on opening night against a divisional opponent on national tv shortly after their beloved previous owner died. Their emotions were sky high. You can make arguments for the Oakland game or New England but honestly in both games the defense wasn't great and the offense had their normal stretches of inconsistency and multiple three and outs. They've had zero games that they played solid for 60 minutes on the road this year. They have yet to play another game really well in all three facets in the 11 games since. We might have had some really bad performances against Jacksonville and Seattle last year, but we also put in some really good performances against good teams. We had games last year on the road where they stunk it up but never where the difference in play was so alarming. We also had a better defense and a ton less injuries last year.

Having said this I'm not saying it's inevitable that the Ravens will lose all four of the rest of their games, but I'm also not going to put the purple glasses on and pretend this team has as good a shot of going to the SB as they did last year... or that they are as good right now as a other top teams in the league. Yes they still have time to turn it around but honestly if a team makes the same mistakes over and over and is getting bit by the injury bug time and time again it doesn't make me feel very optimistic or shrug it off as just a bad loss and they'll be alright come playoff time.

I wonder if any Patriots fans said "We just lost to Kevin Kolb at home. How are we going to win the division?"

Look, I want to see some coaching changes as well but this team isn't going to tailspin and go 0-4. There's a chance they could limp in but they should at least get one home game and once you're in, anything can happen. Either way, this February I'm hoping to see a Lombardi or Cam loading up a U-Haul...I won't hold my breath.

It's funny, had just a play or two gone our way, had we scratched out just a few points, our fans would be on top of the world, and Steeler's Nation would be in meltdown mode right now.

Still a lot of good football games left. It ain't over til the Steelers fan's wife sings.

The Ravens can show us what they have with a couple of playoff bound teams on the schedule. If they can beat Denver and the Giants the band wagon will fill right back up. If not? Well, that 9-2 record sure was pretty. Too bad no one will remember it come January.

I hope they can at least manage to go 3-1. Beat the scrub Redskins and pretender Bungles, and split with the bobbsey twins.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ActualSpamBot

Last I checked we do win way more than we lose and have gone deep in playoffs every year under Harbs. So the team is doing exactly what they SHOULD be doing, but for some people, that's not good enough. Despite being a dropped pass from the SuperBowl last year and having the second best record in the AFC this year, people are calling for wholesale coaching firings and for our QB to be replaced. That's spoiled. Plain and simple. It's a shitty, entitled, and unreasonable way to be a fan.

---

I find it funny that you had to point out his post was basically a description of the Ravens the past 4-5 years.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ActualSpamBot

Last I checked we do win way more than we lose and have gone deep in playoffs every year under Harbs. So the team is doing exactly what they SHOULD be doing, but for some people, that's not good enough. Despite being a dropped pass from the SuperBowl last year and having the second best record in the AFC this year, people are calling for wholesale coaching firings and for our QB to be replaced. That's spoiled. Plain and simple. It's a shitty, entitled, and unreasonable way to be a fan.

---

I don't see too many people calling for any of that. The Ravens offense stinks. For the past few seasons the Ravens have spent a lot of free agent money and high round picks to shore up the offensive unit. They have historically been a defensive team and won a lot of games with the defense first approach. Now that the offense has been getting all this offseason attention what have the results been? Little to no improvement in the overall rankings. Cam needs to go. Its as simple as that.

Its too early to ship off old man Mattison part deux. And he hasn't had a lot to work with through all the big named high dollar injuries. Harbaugh is secure, he isn't going anywhere. Flacco has been crowned and no one is taking his throne. Even if he never really earned it. He has been good enough, but the offense is stagnant. So its him or Cam taking the fall this off season, and the smart money will be on Cam.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ActualSpamBot

Last I checked we do win way more than we lose and have gone deep in playoffs every year under Harbs. So the team is doing exactly what they SHOULD be doing, but for some people, that's not good enough. Despite being a dropped pass from the SuperBowl last year and having the second best record in the AFC this year, people are calling for wholesale coaching firings and for our QB to be replaced. That's spoiled. Plain and simple. It's a shitty, entitled, and unreasonable way to be a fan.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kevlar

I don't see too many people calling for any of that. The Ravens offense stinks. For the past few seasons the Ravens have spent a lot of free agent money and high round picks to shore up the offensive unit. They have historically been a defensive team and won a lot of games with the defense first approach. Now that the offense has been getting all this offseason attention what have the results been? Little to no improvement in the overall rankings. Cam needs to go. Its as simple as that.

Its too early to ship off old man Mattison part deux. And he hasn't had a lot to work with through all the big named high dollar injuries. Harbaugh is secure, he isn't going anywhere. Flacco has been crowned and no one is taking his throne. Even if he never really earned it. He has been good enough, but the offense is stagnant. So its him or Cam taking the fall this off season, and the smart money will be on Cam.

---

Well, there are several merged threads with many posters supporting the firing of Cam and Harbaugh, and there are threads questioning if Flacco is still the QB to get the team to a Super Bowl, along with a couple of blog posts. So I guess I see a lot of people calling for a lot of changes. The only person, so far, to really escape the wrath is Newsome, and should the Ravens falter down the stretch, calls for his head will surely start.

I do agree with you that barring a deep playoff run, Cam is most likely gone, and I am not sure anything less than a Super Bowl appearance would save his job. The problem is that Flacco is in his contract year, and the Ravens really don't know what they have at the position. Is he the average to slightly above average QB (that is maddeningly inconsistent) that we've seen since the beginning of last season? Or is he a truly top-10 QB with elite potential that only needs to get out of Cam's system to survive (like some others)?. I don't know. The big problem is that the Ravens probably don't know either.

I - like many - thought that Cam would be gone last off-season and this year the Ravens and Flacco could see what they could do under another's system. The ideal scenario would have been for Flacco to thrive under a new system, propelling the offense to greater heights thereby off-setting was was expected to be a weaker defense, and giving him justification to seek his top-10 QB contract.

Unfortunately, what I speculate is that when Pagano got hired by the Colts, I just think that Harbaugh/Newsome did not want to go into the season with massive schema changes on both sides of the ball. So Cam stayed, Flacco has plateaued, and here we are...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by NCRAVEN

I just watched the replay on NFL network, there were definitely plays that we just missed (read:the players messed up). BUT those are the plays we seem to consistently missing. That's were coaching needs to come in and it just hasn't changed. We keep doing the same thing over and over and keep missing the same shit.

---

That's not the point I am trying to make. If you blame the coaches for the stuff that the players constantly do wrong, shouldn't they get credit for the stuff that the players constantly do right?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Corey

That's not the point I am trying to make. If you blame the coaches for the stuff that the players constantly do wrong, shouldn't they get credit for the stuff that the players constantly do right?

---

I said it Monday morning. I have been a "Cam must go" guy for a year now, but on Sunday, I thought the gameplan was pretty decent and there were plays, quite of few of them, that were there to be made and weren't. Easily Flacco and the offense's worst home performance in quite some time....

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Corey

That's not the point I am trying to make. If you blame the coaches for the stuff that the players constantly do wrong, shouldn't they get credit for the stuff that the players constantly do right?

---

I mean... I guess, but when something works and you know it works and you keep doing it, that's the job.

The job is also, when something is not working, find away to make it work or change it altogether. That's not or does not appear to be happening from what I see on TV, unless or until it's late in the game and it's too close for comfort or we're down and need to score NOW.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by lobachevsky

It just occurred to me--& I'd appreciate it if the usual subspects like you & Cap'n Sliver would chime in on the subject--that what really, really, really pisses Ravens fans off about Harbaugh's risk-avoidancce approach isn't that it's conservative, or boring. Helzbelz, if there's any fan base in the NFL that's used to that & OK with it it's right here--it won this team a frakkin' Super Bowl, dinnit?

The really, really annoying thing about Harbaughesque football is that it's timid.

---

Hey man, I am all over the threads, I can only cover so much Harbaugh love.

There is a large portion, not all, but a large portion of fans mirror our head coach. Even at this point, so does the owner Steve Bisciotti.

Success in the NFL is often based off of wins. John has a lot. So many that he is safe in regards to what the owner wants. That chance, the glimmer of hope to maybe one day to win a Super Bowl. It does take a bit of luck aside from being good.

But being good, being really, really good, in football, in life, in business can be enough. In fact, it can make you very, very, rich.

But to be the best, the greatest, the one that stands above all others and can say, I am better than everyone else takes something more than being good. It demands more.

We do not have that in a head coach. He is from the tree of almost. Bo Schembechler or Andy Ried, take your pick. Winning it all is not his pedigree. Never has been, never will be.

I need not compare him to previous coaches or current coaches, I need only watch the flow of the game, the X's and O'x, the favorable player match-ups that are missed or squandered opportunities, be it 30 seconds at a half or the mismanagement of timeouts on foolish challenges. I get to watch a quarterback who has all the tools, be doubted in his contract year because of a superseding commitment to mediocrity in an offensive coordinator who is stuck in 1974.

But again, there has been great success. I attribute this to the PLAYERS. Our players are simply better than most. Ozzie Newsome is getting a lot of flak now, but I say it is unwarranted, talent wise we have it.

So being good based upon riding the talent of this team is what John Harbaugh's resume is. Pruple Kool-Aid drinking fans will call me the hater, which is fine. John Harbaugh had the great pleasure to step into a well stocked team and run it. Let's see how well that would go over in Buffalo or Cleveland.

Good head coaches win a lot of games. Great head coaches win Super Bowls, they don't lose home games to 3rd string quarterbacks by kneeling on the ball at the half.

Captain, we are on opposite ends of this debate. I don't necessarily consider myself a "Harbaugh lover". Two years ago (after his third season), I said that if he could not beat Pittsburgh, win division titles and garner home playoff games, he should be squarely on the hot-seat. He's done that and got the team to the precipice. In my mind, that earns him a few more years to see if he can finish the job. We can disagree on whether he has earned or should get that chance.

But when you say this..

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Captain Silver

Good head coaches win a lot of games. Great head coaches win Super Bowls, they don't lose home games to 3rd string quarterbacks by kneeling on the ball at the half.

---

It really undermines the other (good) points you were making. I mean, if that is how we are judging "great" coaches, then explain how Tomlin lost to Tim Tebow? Yes, I know, Tomlin has won a Super Bowl (some think he may have won 2 or more)...anyway, how does that "great" coach then turn around and lose to Tim Tebow?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JohnBKistler

Captain, we are on opposite ends of this debate. I don't necessarily consider myself a "Harbaugh lover". Two years ago (after his third season), I said that if he could not beat Pittsburgh, win division titles and garner home playoff games, he should be squarely on the hot-seat. He's done that and got the team to the precipice. In my mind, that earns him a few more years to see if he can finish the job. We can disagree on whether he has earned or should get that chance.

But when you say this..



It really undermines the other (good) points you were making. I mean, if that is how we are judging "great" coaches, then explain how Tomlin lost to Tim Tebow? Yes, I know, Tomlin has won a Super Bowl (some think he may have won 2 or more)...anyway, how does that "great" coach then turn around and lose to Tim Tebow?

---

Tomlin didn't lose to Tim Tebow at home on a 16 home game winning streak.

It undermines nothing, I wrote, and if logic such as this prevails this is exactly why fans are satisfied with John. Thanks for proving my point

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by The Excellector

I don't give a who what, who those teams lost to.

Losing to Batch, in your own place, in a game that could have clinched the division, for a team of this caliber, is a disgrace. Inexcusable doesn't begin to describe how bad of a loss that is.

---

There's no washing the stench from this one: a near-miss death blow to our arch rivals, stopping the home win streak vs. a carrer bench-jockey QB, etc., etc. But it was one loss. The Houston game was the only one in which we were manhandled. Both Pitts. and Philly were bitter disappointments that could have easily been wins instead of mostly self-inflicted one-score defeats (w/ an assist from repacemebt refs. in Philly). We keep up our end of the bargain and we should be OK even in these 4 tough games remaining. We're not great, but neither are we done!:alien: