Joe 'Manned Up'

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Originally Posted by redmike34

He did when it mattered.

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Utterly ridiculous. Does this idiotic philosophy apply to every player or just QBs? Is Qadry Ishmail a better receiver than Anquan Boldin? Is Kim Herring better than Pollard? What about coordinators? Is Matt Cavanaugh a better coordinator than Josh McDaniels?

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Originally Posted by ActualSpamBot

Bullshit. You confuse flair for creative profanity for emotion and my insistence on giving CREDIT where it's due with blind allegiance. I have and will continue to say that Flacco is far from perfect. What I will not do is piss on his successes and credit luck and another team's fuck ups for them. If you really think that what you're doing to Joe's career is the equivalent of pointing out a single missed tackle, then you know less about football than I do about cricket. Which is to say nothing.

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Idk, missing a tackle is like throwing an incompletion or taking a sack to a QB. When someone says something bad about Joe throwing an incompletion, a lot of people on this board will be quick to point to the play calling, or a WR not being open. Yet when Reed misses a tackle, let's just cut him right?

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Originally Posted by JMUpurkfool

If you think Alex Smith can do what Joe has here than you aren't "saying one bad thing". You are saying that Joe Flacco is hardly a starter in the NFL.

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Yes but when did I say that? WHEN?

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Originally Posted by HoustonRaven

Umm. Wat?

Since when is that "a fallacy that exists around here"?

He DID outplay Brady in that game. It's not even close.

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Different defenses.

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Originally Posted by leachisabeast

Yes but when did I say that? WHEN?

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Probably when you said, repeatedly, that Alex Smith could win a championship here.

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Originally Posted by leachisabeast

Different defenses.

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Is there a point here? Because this makes even less sense.

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Originally Posted by ActualSpamBot

Op wasn't talking about how Flacco played. He was talking about how before this game, when asked who was responsible for the offense underperforming all season, Joe said that it was 100% him. He didn't use the moment to blame Cam, he didn't complain about his O line, he didn't mention wide receivers needing to be able to beat press coverage. He could have, and those would have all been true, but instead he put it all on his shoulders and said "100% me."

And look at how his team mates responded.




Next time someone claims that Joe isn't a leader, I'm just going to link to this post until that meme goes away.

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Thank-you!

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Originally Posted by HoustonRaven

Umm. Wat?

Since when is that "a fallacy that exists around here"?

He DID outplay Brady in that game. It's not even close.

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By what metric?

When all is said and done, Brady got his offense to score 23 points. Flacco got his offense to score 20. Everything else is ifs, shouldas, wouldas, couldas, etc. They don't keep track of those in official NFL statlines, unless I'm mistaken.

By the same token (so that you don't think I'm putting the blame for losing the game on Flacco), the defense allowed three points more than the Pats' D did, Harbaugh made more questionable decisions than Belichick, etc. Bottom line is though, despite not having a great game stats-wise, Brady did enough to win. Any argument that Flacco outplayed him is based in statistics which are trumped by the scoreboard.

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Originally Posted by HoustonRaven

Is there a point here? Because this makes even less sense.

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So when you play a bad defense, it's just as hard to play a good defense for a QB?

That must explain why statistically QB's don't do well against the top defenses in the league, and why defensive rankings even exists....

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Originally Posted by Justlovemybirds

Haha I'm pretty certain this is what people are talking about when they say that when it comes to Flacco's success, it's of everyone's doing but his own.


Points of off turnovers or not, Rice had a game similar to the 49ers one, no where to run.
Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk 2

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Originally Posted by HoustonRaven

:laugh:

That's EXACTLY the point Sting and others are trying to make.

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:word

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Originally Posted by leachisabeast

Different defenses.

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So you admit that Joe is better than Matt Ryan then right? Because its been illustrated on this board that when Joe and Matt have played top five Ds, Joe has SIGNIFICANTLY better stats.

And Matt Ryan is currently being talked as a top QB.

And thus Joe is one as well.

Or does "different defenses" not always count?

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Originally Posted by redmike34

By what metric?

When all is said and done, Brady got his offense to score 23 points. Flacco got his offense to score 20. Everything else is ifs, shouldas, wouldas, couldas, etc. They don't keep track of those in official NFL statlines, unless I'm mistaken.

By the same token (so that you don't think I'm putting the blame for losing the game on Flacco), the defense allowed three points more than the Pats' D did, Harbaugh made more questionable decisions than Belichick, etc. Bottom line is though, despite not having a great game stats-wise, Brady did enough to win. Any argument that Flacco outplayed him is based in statistics which are trumped by the scoreboard.

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By this logic Joe is the second best QB in the NFL right now because he has engineered more wins than all but Tom Brady since 2008. So top five money is right out the window and top 3 money it is!

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Originally Posted by leachisabeast

Ravens had the 3rd ranked defense, Patriots had the 31st ranked defense. Yet people are throwing accusations out to me that I dismiss flacco's ''achievements'' yet everyone forgets about how great this defense has been until this year. Let's just forget about the team when Flacco wins, but blame everyone else when we lose.

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That 31st ranked defense sure showed up to play that day. Vince Wilfork was unstoppable and the rest of their front 7 was on Flacco all night long.

The Ravens D this year hasn't been very good, but they sure looked like a top ranked D against the Giants last weekend, wouldn't you say? Any given Sunday man.

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Originally Posted by ActualSpamBot

So you admit that Joe is better than Matt Ryan then right? Because its been illustrated on this board that when Joe and Matt have played top five Ds, Joe has SIGNIFICANTLY better stats.

And Matt Ryan is currently being talked as a top QB.

And thus Joe is one as well.

Or does "different defenses" not always count?

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I actually think Flacco is slightly better than Matt Ryan. I have them in both the same tier of QB's (second tier).

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Originally Posted by wickedsolo

That 31st ranked defense sure showed up to play that day. Vince Wilfork was unstoppable and the rest of their front 7 was on Flacco all night long.

The Ravens D this year hasn't been very good, but they sure looked like a top ranked D against the Giants last weekend, wouldn't you say? Any given Sunday man.

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Very true, but their pass defense still sucks then as it does now, their front 7 are pretty good.

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Originally Posted by leachisabeast

So when you play a bad defense, it's just as hard to play a good defense for a QB?

That must explain why statistically QB's don't do well against the top defenses in the league, and why defensive rankings even exists....

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How did Eli do against the Ravens defense on Sunday?

The Ravens D isn't very good this year by several statistical measures.

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Originally Posted by redmike34

By what metric?

When all is said and done, Brady got his offense to score 23 points. Flacco got his offense to score 20. Everything else is ifs, shouldas, wouldas, couldas, etc. They don't keep track of those in official NFL statlines, unless I'm mistaken.

By the same token (so that you don't think I'm putting the blame for losing the game on Flacco), the defense allowed three points more than the Pats' D did, Harbaugh made more questionable decisions than Belichick, etc. Bottom line is though, despite not having a great game stats-wise, Brady did enough to win. Any argument that Flacco outplayed him is based in statistics which are trumped by the scoreboard.

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I think I am going to need a slide rule if I am going to keep up the monumental movement of the proverbial goal posts in this thread and this takes the cake ....

So what you're really saying (but now knowing it) that this is a matter of opinion and perspective. I see that now. But lets not then twist and mince words to fit YOUR opinion in this incredibly twisted narrative.

Every football person on the planet, who are far more versed in everything football, would look at that game and say Joe out played Brady. And after that game, his praise as such was universal. You do understand it's a generalized term, right?

It's only the vocal few here, under Herculean efforts, are so desperate to cling to their incredibly narrow narrative that they're resorting to misrepresenting history in a very feeble attempt to make a point.

.... and it should be noted I think Joe is average at best.

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Originally Posted by wickedsolo

How did Eli do against the Ravens defense on Sunday?

The Ravens D isn't very good this year by several statistical measures.

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They are ranked 13th in total defense believe it or not. http://www.pro-football-reference.co...s/2012/opp.htm

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Originally Posted by ActualSpamBot

Utterly ridiculous. Does this idiotic philosophy apply to every player or just QBs? Is Qadry Ishmail a better receiver than Anquan Boldin? Is Kim Herring better than Pollard? What about coordinators? Is Matt Cavanaugh a better coordinator than Josh McDaniels?

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Wow. You're quite the civil debater aren't you?

Well, since I still don't understand your point I'll merely point out that Marino, though in the position to win the big one once, failed in both circumstances. Dilfer, when he got his shot, made the most of it. I'm not sure why you think any of the other examples you cite matter, though again, as I said, I was confused by your original statement, and am more confused now. Perhaps, if it's possible, you could explain your meaning in actual sentences vice examples without context, and also perhaps without calling me idiotic? Else, I've got better things to do...

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Originally Posted by leachisabeast

Very true, but their pass defense still sucks then as it does now, their front 7 are pretty good.

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So you admit that Joe played pretty damn good even though their D shut down Rice. If their front 7 are pretty good...and stuffed the run all night long (to the tune of something like 2.8 ypc)...and their front 7 was pretty good at getting to Flacco...but Flacco still did really well considering all that...why are you even chiming in on such a ridiculous notion that Flacco struggles when defenses make the Ravens offense 1-dimensional?

#1 all defenses are schemed to make an opposing offense 1 dimensional.
#2 all QB's CAN struggle (can being the key word here) when defenses make their offense 1-dimensional.