Many can't wrap their head around that, but I know people who are similar to this, so I've seen it first hand.
IF Manti's story is true, I would bet the reason he fell for her, is him being a devout Mormon and not having sex before marriage he didn't have a real girlfriend because he might feel pressure to have sex and avoided a real relationship altogether. So instead he was desperate and believed everything with this girl.
Again, if you've never seen anyone like this it's hard to imagine, but I have personally seen people like this.
#1--- find me an interview where Manti HIMSELF says that he met her in person. Even if you can, that was his biggest offense, lying about meeting her to provide more legitimacy to his online relationship. I'm not saying it was right to do so, but I think it's a far more forgivable offense than to have created the entire hoax.
#2---The interviews where he talks about his "girlfriend" were two months before he even found out that she wasn't real. Again, he got a call from the supposedly dead girl a couple nights before the Heisman ceremony and, after realizing he had been caught in a hoax, he went to ND authorities.
You are choosing to believe basically Te'o and ND's statement of events exactly as they were promulgated. That's your prerogative, but I believe the evidence to support that notion is less credible and less voluminous than the evidence which suggests Te'o had at least SOME degree of knowledge of what was going on. That's the bottom line here.
This could all change if the report of investigation or other documentary evidence that ND's PI uncovered is revealed. But guess what? Here's another guarantee for you: it won't be, nor will anything else be revealed by ND or the Te'o family. They will issue brief statements, sit back, and decline to answer most questions, citing privacy concerns.
Look, I deal with duplicitous and deceitful people for a living. I'm just seeing a lot of behavioral patterns here that correlate to deception. I know how these kinds of things proceed. Te'o seems to be following the "admit to a lesser offense and beg forgiveness in hope of distracting attention from the unanswered questions" approach. I believe that he and his people think they can just deflect this if they spin it into a Catfish story. He will have ND's help in that respect and unless criminal activity occurred there's very little chance that any really credible source will stand up, challenge him, and win in the court of public opinion.
I'm not saying Te'o's version of the story is impossible. It's just less likely given what we know and can surmise at this point.
1) How many does it take? One or two?
2) It did not get high media attention until it was over
3) A facebook, twitter and email Hoax is hardly difficult to pull off
4) I can understand this one, but people desperate for a relationship are gullible to say the least.
I may be playing devils advocate just a bit too much her, but it seems, you're just trying to confirm what you believe.
BTW - I find it ironic a bunch of guys on the internet (whit thousands of post on this site) are debating if someone could fall for an internet relationship
A practiced and skillful deceiver like Te'o is not prone to be so easily deceived by others. So you mean to tell me that all the times Manti told his family he was meeting her in Hawaii, only for her not to show up, he never got concerned, nor did his family? All the times he interacted with her family (people obviously of varying ages, backgrounds, and personalities) he never noticed anything weird about their interactions? He never found it strange that even though she claimed (AND HE TOLD OTHERS) that she was in the hospital, no nurses ever came to check her blood pressure?
I mean, there are just STAGGERING leaps of faith you need to make to believe that Te'o was just merrily trotting along, being tricked by a MASSIVE web of lies and MASSIVE cast of characters, while ALL THE WHILE HE HIMSELF WAS MASTERFULLY MANIPULATING HIS ENTIRE WORLD TO ACCOUNT FOR HIS SHAME OVER AN ONLINE GIRLFRIEND.
So after you get through believing all of that I have a great tract of oceanfront territory in Nevada I'd love to sell to you.
Ah, and there's the rub. I guess you're a Notre Dame fan, then? I'm not a hater of that institution, but I am hesitant to accept their word at face value--especially after we saw another similar institution like PSU lie through their teeth to protect themselves and their stakeholders. I might be cynical, but not particularly so for ND.
not going to the hospital or funeral i would think negates the argument that hes was simply socially naive and in love with her but embarrassed about how they met, at least on some level. I would think the girl you tell your parents you want to or could see yourself marry would at least mean you see her whens shes sick or dead.
Im not saying its not possible i just think something is going on. Hes the one that brought this onto himself by lying in the first place.
The problem is... based on the information we have, it just seems to me to be a more likely scenario that Te'o had some knowledge of what was going on. It requires fewer leaps of faith and fewer gaps in logic.
And if you think Te'o and his girlfriend weren't subject to huge media scrutiny, you're wrong. How many major national media outlets carried the story of Te'o playing with a heavy heart in the wake of the deaths of two people very near and dear to him? It was literally EVERYWHERE. And yet none of those journalists thought to do their due diligence and make basic inquiries into the circumstances surrounding the girlfriend's death! (Nobody pulled an obit, nobody contacted the school to find out her major/extracurriculars/etc., nobody contacted any other schools, community organizations, etc.)
The only footnote to that... interestingly enough... Gene Wojciechowski of ESPN DID do his due diligence. He asked Te'o if he could talk to Lennay's family... Te'o claimed they had refused. He asked for pictures of Lennay from the family through Te'o... Te'o refused. He couldn't find anything about her at all through internet. Te'o was the one who ran around telling everyone in the media about this despite not having any hard proof of anything that had happened. (link to the Gene W. interview: http://espn.go.com/blog/notre-dame-f...-teo-interview)
And by the way... I have to reiterate that the cast of characters is pretty damn big here. Te'o made passing comments regarding Lennay's friends, several family members (including at least a mother, father, and an older sibling)... that's what I mean by "web of social media." ALL of them were texting, Tweeting, on Facebook, etc... you're talking about individual accounts for each of them and "actors" to get on the phone and pretend to be them since Te'o claimed he had talked to them. That's a really complex operation.
You can disagree with me as much as you like and I have no problem with that. This isn't a criminal matter and the burden of proof is not beyond reasonable doubt, only a preponderance of the evidence. I have worked in law enforcement and given sworn testimony on the witness stand many times over my career--would I testify to any of this? No, of course not! This is all just bullshitting. We're not talking about convicting this kid, only our opinions on what might have happened as we see it.
I'm reserving final judgement until the money trail is fully investigated.
That said, the smoke surrounding Te'o is incredibly thick. Of course he could be a victim of a hoax, but it seems with each day there's a new question that needs to be answered.
I'm merely pointing out the fact that if that's true--if YOUR position is correct--then he still had to tell a LOT of lies to a LOT of people. Actually, I'll let your post from earlier speak to this issue:
I can separate my private opinion regarding a matter from my professional ability to draw conclusions from evidence. At this point, we're all pretty much pissing into the wind as far as actual fact-finding, I can readily admit that. But I think your attempt to smear me personally for my opinion is beneath you and not deserving of inclusion in this discussion. Disagree with me as you please and we'll all grow and benefit from the discussion, but don't lower yourself to a personal attack.
He may be the biggest fraud ever, but I think based of one article (slanted or not) is a bit premature to claim we know enough to say he is a "A practiced and skillful deceiver".
Jim Rome, not really a fan, was just saying on the radio basically what we are here. There isnt enough to say its 100% either way, but something is fishy, mostly that for somebody he called his "soul mate" to not show up when she was sick or the funeral yet still refer to her as his GF is just really odd. Doesnt mean its not true but the fact hes now turning down interviews and continuing to hide even though hes claiming to be a victim lets more people question his sincerity. He said about taking time to prepare his statements and that if he is a victim he should be yelling from the rooftop that he is. i dont know if i agree with the last part at all but it would put it to rest in public opinioin i believe.
If there is money involved than that would be more damning than any of this. Really this effects nobody and im just curious how it effects his draft stock. people getting swindled is another issue entirely.
I'm not sure how Bmorecareful's posts are being misread.
At the VERY LEAST, Te'o was deceiving his family and freinds. That much cannot be denied. His father at least pointed to the fact that Te'o mentioned she was in Hawaii and that Te'o had met in person.
So the best light you can paint Te'o in is that he had an online girlfriend whom he claimed to have met in person to avoid the shame his teammates and parents would place on him. That is the BEST possible light. IF you buy into the catfish angle of the story, then he simply deceived his circle of influence into believing their relationship was more then it was. Again, not the most horrible thing ever, but it still is a chain of lies and deception.
I can buy that as one of amny posibilities, but I certainly dn't think the preponderance of evidence points to that as basically the only scenario. I agree that it certainly smells more then a little fishy that he was in on the whole thing. Besides the publicity angle, I think there are several other reasons he could have been involved. I think the 8 hour phone calls are even explainable with other possible scenarios.
So at the very least, Te'o comes out of this smelling fishy.
All I have said is that it seems likely to me that he had some degree of knowledge about what was going on, and I don't believe he's completely the victim that the official statements make him out to be. I have no idea what the extent of his knowledge or role in the hoax may have been. It's all a big mess that nobody knows for sure about.
You seem to be really hung up on the fact that I used those words earlier to describe Te'o, but I used them SPECIFICALLY in the context of the claim (that you're now denying that you made or agreed with) that Te'o lied to his family about having met her, lied about the circumstances surrounding her, etc. IF he did those things, then what else is he? I really find it hard to see how Manti couldn't have told a bunch of lies and deceived a lot of people over this.
In retrospect, my words were too strong even given that context and I apologize for them. I do NOT want to give the impression that I'm passing judgment on Manti's character as a whole, which is an unknown to all but those who know him well. I see indications of deception here, but that's not a value judgment. Everybody lies, everybody deceives somebody at one point or another in their lives, some of us just do it from a bigger stage.
I think what you're telling me is that you don't like the opinions I'm expressing and you don't believe I should be expressing them publicly. I don't want to be disagreeable so I'm going to oblige you and take a break from this thread for a while and maybe come back once more information is known. PM me if you're still unsatisfied.
I just didn't like that seemed there was no other option due to what you felt was more evidence pointing to him being behind the whole thing, without hearing his side of the story (other than a statement he released) or answers to the questions we all think need to be asked. And that may not been exactly what you were doing, it might be more of the larger problem I have with nowadays people being accused of something now means they did it.