Or if a defense is better or worse, does that mean it would the exact same against two different teams? Meaning, Pittsburgh may be the #1 D and while they play that way against us one week, will they be that against Atlanta the next week as well? No, people match up differently, so I don't buy advanced stats, or advanced advanced stats matter, or can accurately say who is a better QB.
Hire's a question for you. DO you think Ryan would do better in Baltimore than Joe?
Now, I'm going to start off saying I don't like this guy, because he ranks Kaepernick, RG3, Luck, and Wilson 6-9, and says Ravens would trade Flacco for any of them in a heartbeat. That's just ridiculous. And throws in a slight dig, saying Atlanta probably would too, but not QUITE as quickly.
But, when talking about Flacco, they bring up exactly why his postseason stats seem a bit odd...
All the 2008 playoff games were brutal Flacco. It was really the D making those games work. The in 2009, we played NE in a game where Joe was 4/10. That's because of HUGE plays by Rice and McGahee, and the D. We got knocked out by the Colts (In a game I apparently had totally forgotten, where Joe had a turnover to ice the game). Then in 2010, in the first game Joe really played well in, he had 2 TD and 265 yards. The next game against Pitt, Joe had us up by 14 at halftime, but he threw a pick combined with a Rice fumble to let the Steelers back in the game.Quote:
In that coldhardfootballfacts.com chart -- which included his first two playoff games this year -- Flacco ranked 17th out of 20 playoff quarterbacks in WPA, at 0.03 ahead of only Chad Pennington, Donovan McNabb and Michael Vick, and 16th in expected points added at 0.79. He was worth less than a point per game over a replacement level quarterback.
But that's because he USED to be brutal. Flacco had nothing to do with Baltimore's first three playoff wins of his career, then got a gimme win over an overmatched Kansas City team. But Flacco has posted five straight playoff games with a passer rating of 95 or above the past two years. That's awfully good. And awfully consistent.
It will be interesting to see how Joe's enhanced stats compare to Ryan's after next season (assuming a shaky OLine and Cam Cameron greatly contributed to his inconsistency in the regular season).
The Flacco vs Ryan postseason debate demonstrates just how much stats don't show the real picture at times. Even early in their careers, when Joe was putting up some pretty bad stats in the postseason, he was making big plays that helped his team win.
For example, the clutch, yes clutch throw to Todd Heap under pressure that put the Ravens in position to win the game on their final drive. Matty Ice that year was busy throwing picks to Cardinal defenders in the absolute worst times possible. See, stats don't show the timing of things. Don't give me the "Normalized 4th quarter" crap either. That still doesn't show anything. You HAVE TO LOOK AT EACH GAME, and the CONTEXT!
Clutch is hitting Boldin for two TD's when the game is in the balance. Or hitting Jones with 31 seconds left on a game tying 70 yard TD pass. Clutch is hitting Lee Evans with 26 seconds left for the game winning score(ooops the idiot dropped it!).
Not clutch is throwing a pick six against the Packers right before the half that swung the game completely around. Not clutch is turning the ball over twice when you have a lead in a championship game.
Now Flacco hasn't always been clutch in every game, (i.e Pitt 2010), but more often than not he has been.
To say "clutch" doesn't exist is ridiculous.
Now, regarding a couple of other things you mention:
First, that was NOT pass interference on Atlanta's last play in the NFCC game. The receiver was within 5 yards of the LOS and got bumped, legally. When the ball arrived Bowman reached around and swatted it down.
You also need to look more closely at the play in Denver. It was just as much a case of a great play call and route running as it was defensive breakdown. Moore was caught between a rock in a hard place, as Pitta was wide open underneath and had Moore been playing deeper to cover Jones better, Pitta likely would have gotten the Ravens within pretty close striking distance. Note, Ray Rice was also open for what would have been a 30 yard or more gain as well. The play was "clutch" because Joe recognized Jones being open, and he made the throw, with the game on the line. That is the DEFINITION of clutch, my friend.
Not clutch, is throwing the ball to a receiver who wouldn't have gotten a first down anyway, and not seeing a wide open Tony Gonzales who would not only have gotten the first down, but likely SCORED.
That is why you have to watch the games instead of looking at stats to know how good a player really is.
Just win 2 or 3 rings Joe and shut all these idiots up.
Back to the OP, I really don't have a problem with their rankings much at all. Ryan vs. Flacco was settled as of about week 12-15 when Ryan was jsut coming down from his MVP-type season pedestal, while Flacco lost 3 straight. That said, Obviously it's been in Flacco's favor since the Giants game, but it's a relatively short run. Clutch is the main place that Flacco has an advantage over Ryan, and it is certainly of the utmost importance, but I'm not sure it outweigh's Ryan's stats on these types of lists.
Dalton should certainly be higher then Tannehill, but Stafford, IMO is where he should be. I like how they have the young uys ranked, as the group of Luck, RGIII, WIlson, Kaepernick and Cam have certainly put their stamp on this league. I have no issue with ever single one ranked over Stafford, who has been consistantly inconsistant, and fragile. Without Calvin Johnson he would look more like Sam Bradford.
Phantoom, honest question - 2 minutes left, you're team is down 4 and has the ball at their own 20... You would prefer to put the ball in Matt Ryan's hands over Joe Flacco's?
But please, come up with some other reason why Matt Ryan isn't "clutch" and Joe is. Keep changing the definition until you are right.
So, no. I don't think Matt Ryan would have been more successful in Baltimore simply because Baltimore plays outdoors in the elements and consistently faces top tiered defenses, which Matt Ryan does not.
We saw how Ryan played in Pittsburgh last year and that wasn't even in the winter.
Ryan is a good QB, but I'll take Flacco over him any day.
Flacco has played in 7 games, 5 of which were on the road, and he has a 5-2 record in those games. And he has 1725 yards, 15 TDs, and 2 INTs for a 102.2 QB Rating.
Ryan has played in 4 games, 3 of which were at home, and he has a 1-3 record in those games. And he has 1031 Yards, 7 TDs, and 5 INTs for an 88.6 QB Rating.
For Flacco, that's a touchdown every 14.7 passes, and an INT every 110 passes. 7.84 yards per attempt. For Ryan, that's a touchdown every 21 passes, and an INT every 29.4 passes. 7.01 yards per attempt.
It's obvious that Flacco has performed much, much better in the play-offs, and then when you consider that Flacco has played every playoff game outside in the cold and wind, and Ryan has played mostly in his comfy dome... and Flacco does what he does on the Road, while Ryan benefits from being at home... It's really night and day how much better Flacco is in the post-season.
People forget that though. I live in Atlanta, I watch the games, and even WITH a lead, he ALWAYS throws an untimely interception that keeps the game close. That's why he has no choice but to chuck it away to try and win the game. Didn't work this past Sunday though.
That said, I'd take Flacco over Ryan. Joe has done more with less. I've sen Ryan lead his teams on game winning drives too. Just watching the two my opinion (which has as much weight as subjective stats) is Ryan can sometimes have that deer-in-the-headlight look and Joe has the here-I-fucking-come look. Not only are those the looks but when their teams needs those attitudes I see it in Joe's play more than I do Ryan's
These gymnastics of picking a choosing when we are going to count are hurting my head. I'm sure I could counter with Ryans injury, or the quality of defenses he played (San Fran had the second best D in the league this year) but how about this: I will admit that Joe Flacco has been better than Matt Ryan in the playoffs since 2010. I just think that judging QBs on such a tiny sample size is ludicrous. I would much rather judge a QB on how they have done over the past 32 games than the past 4. Hell, I could probably find 4 game runs that made Boller look like a decent QB. Well, maybe.