Guns...

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Originally Posted by CptJesus

Saw a little comment about Fast and Furious earlier in this thread. Thought I would drop this in here.

Its a long read, but a good one.

http://features.blogs.fortune.cnn.co...furious-truth/

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I don't think anyone has ever argued that the administration intentionally allowed guns to fall into the hands if the cartels.

Rather, it was a monumentally stupid idea to allow guns to walk across the border, hoping they'd never get used, all in the hopes of being able to "track their movements".

Fact still remains this administration DID allow guns to go across the border. Those guns DID end up in the hands of some pretty bad folks. And sadly, those same guns DID kill people, namely a DEA agent. Do I think the President or Holder know about the program beforehand? No. Do I think they've been covering it up? Yup.

That's the issue I have with it. No surprise, CNN is hoping to obfuscate the issue when that was never anyone's contention in the first place.

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Originally Posted by HoustonRaven

I don't think anyone has ever argued that the administration intentionally allowed guns to fall into the hands if the cartels.

Rather, it was a monumentally stupid idea to allow guns to walk across the border, hoping they'd never get used, all in the hopes of being able to "track their movements".

Fact still remains this administration DID allow guns to go across the border. Those guns DID end up in the hands of some pretty bad folks. And sadly, those same guns DID kill people, namely a DEA agent. Do I think the President or Holder know about the program beforehand? No. Do I think they've been covering it up? Yup.

That's the issue I have with it. No surprise, CNN is hoping to obfuscate the issue when that was never anyone's contention in the first place.

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Gotta look out for your boys, even if its the wrong thing to do. Its unfortunate, but you really think they're just going to throw them under the bus? And you really think any other administration would do the same? Just saying, this seems more of a loyalty issue than anything.

Also, how many sting operations go wrong every year that we just don't hear about? I really think this issue was hyper-politicized. But that's all my opinion.

I'm sorry. Loyalty ends when people die. Period.

And I'm kind of stunned you're ok with that.

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Originally Posted by HoustonRaven

I'm sorry. Loyalty ends when people die. Period.

And I'm kind of stunned you're ok with that.

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When did I say I was ok with it? I said that's the way it is. Personal loyalty is valued very highly in American society, but especially in military and law enforcement.

No administration is going to willingly throw their own people under the bus unless they absolutely have too. Just like no squad sergeant or police chief is going to either.



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Originally Posted by CptJesus

When did I say I was ok with it? I said that's the way it is. Personal loyalty is valued very highly in American society, but especially in military and law enforcement.

No administration is going to willingly throw their own people under the bus unless they absolutely have too. Just like no squad sergeant or police chief is going to either.

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Scooter Libby would disagree.

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Originally Posted by HoustonRaven

Perfect gun for you then ....

http://www.walmart.com/ip/Sig-Sauer-...ndingMethod=rr

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So... clearly I'm not a rifle expert. I took a look at this, I had no idea a 223 round was so small. I knew it was small but not that small. I'd like a bigger caliber, any suggestion on that?

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Originally Posted by NCRAVEN

So... clearly I'm not a rifle expert. I took a look at this, I had no idea a 223 round was so small. I knew it was small but not that small. I'd like a bigger caliber, any suggestion on that?

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You can get AR style guns in 7.62(AK caliber) or 308. It's a little less off the shelf, but they can be found.... or you could just get an AK, the aforementioned Red Jacket specializes in them.
But don't forget the projectile may be small on a 223 but the charge is BIG with high velocity. I know AR style rifles are used down south on wild Hogs, but I'm not entirely sure if it's 223 or 308 versions. There is a gun show on Discovery with Ted Nugent, and in the opening episode he gets a spec bilt .308 AR for hunting VERY large African Mammals.


Me, I think I just want a fun range gun now, so I'm thinking of building one of these for myself for xmas....
http://www.redjacketfirearms.com/ind...mart&Itemid=19

for $6-800 I'll have a fun plinking toy with the cheapest most ubiquitous ammo out there. And it can be shot at indoor ranges.

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Originally Posted by NCRAVEN

So... clearly I'm not a rifle expert. I took a look at this, I had no idea a 223 round was so small. I knew it was small but not that small. I'd like a bigger caliber, any suggestion on that?

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Any larger of a round and you lose the "fun" aspect of the AR. While you CAN get AR's that will accommodate a larger round, I don't think you'd get the same from the weapon.

Larger rounds on the AR frame will mean a more expensive weapon, more expensive rounds, etc. The .223 is "small" but, as johnboy said, it's velocity makes up for it.

Just to rub it in.

My HK416 arrived and I added the suppressor.

Oh. Emm. Gee.

Whisper quiet and very little zeroing. I will post pics soon. I am officially ready fr the zombie apocalypse!

I just bought a sig p229 in 40 cal. Next up is a colt m4.


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Originally Posted by NCRAVEN

So... clearly I'm not a rifle expert. I took a look at this, I had no idea a 223 round was so small. I knew it was small but not that small. I'd like a bigger caliber, any suggestion on that?

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no gun expert myself but the HV .223 round does seem to be pretty powerful. A friend has an AR, not sure of the brand, and another has a Rifle, Remington maybe, thats at least a similar size round if not .223. Both are fun and pack a punch.

A well placed shot will certainly kill a deer, and waste very little meat.

HR, and others....


Well, it's come the time where I am starting to look for a pistol for my wife, and so we have soemthing at home.(My Glock 19 generally lives at work in a jewelry safe).

She is profficient firing my GLock, and comfortable with it, EXCEPT, as pointed out yesterday at the gun store, I generally work th action for her, as well as loading the magazine. As a range weapon, no biggie. As a home defense weapon, Im a little shaky with that point.

She CAN work the action, but it's a lot to ask of her in a stressful situation. Her 110 lb frame simply struggles to exert that much force.

The 9mm round and recoil of my Glock are not an issue, and she is pleny accurate with the compact framed glock. Yesterday while looking at a VERY thin inventory, that seemed to be the case with most of the similar model pistols from S&W, Ruger, etc. A polished finished slide made it worse. The shop worker sugested and pointed out a Bersa .380 of which I would consider a bare minimum caliber. That Action was FAR easier and more comfortable to her, but it's a cheapie $325 gun. Not sure how much I trust that. They claim to have some at the range they own with several thousand rounds run through them, but experience? Any suggestions for lighter actioned guns? Are there any Mods for the Glock to lighten the action?

At this point, I'm tempted to jsut get a G26 and simply start forcing her to load/chanrge her own firearm in her own lane when we go to the range?

Comments, suggestions?

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Originally Posted by jonboy79

HR, and others....


Well, it's come the time where I am starting to look for a pistol for my wife, and so we have soemthing at home.(My Glock 19 generally lives at work in a jewelry safe).

She is profficient firing my GLock, and comfortable with it, EXCEPT, as pointed out yesterday at the gun store, I generally work th action for her, as well as loading the magazine. As a range weapon, no biggie. As a home defense weapon, Im a little shaky with that point.

She CAN work the action, but it's a lot to ask of her in a stressful situation. Her 110 lb frame simply struggles to exert that much force.

The 9mm round and recoil of my Glock are not an issue, and she is pleny accurate with the compact framed glock. Yesterday while looking at a VERY thin inventory, that seemed to be the case with most of the similar model pistols from S&W, Ruger, etc. A polished finished slide made it worse. The shop worker sugested and pointed out a Bersa .380 of which I would consider a bare minimum caliber. That Action was FAR easier and more comfortable to her, but it's a cheapie $325 gun. Not sure how much I trust that. They claim to have some at the range they own with several thousand rounds run through them, but experience? Any suggestions for lighter actioned guns? Are there any Mods for the Glock to lighten the action?

At this point, I'm tempted to jsut get a G26 and simply start forcing her to load/chanrge her own firearm in her own lane when we go to the range?

Comments, suggestions?

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Is this just for the purpose of home defense? If so, I would just look at a revolver.

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Originally Posted by NCRAVEN

Is this just for the purpose of home defense? If so, I would just look at a revolver.

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More so for use a the range, with the added benefit of having a home defense weapon. We currently enjoy 100 rounds each about every other week with my Glock 19. But, as I said, I load the mags and rack the slide for her.

Also, If I get her the G26 she is eyeing, with no external safety, as this will live in a biometric safe at home, I'd prefer not to keep a bullet chambered. Thus, if she is uncomfortable racking the slide, it will be a paperweight.


NOT a carry weapon, if that was what you were asking.

Another option, is to get somethign with a good safety, and simply leave it ready to go in the safe.


I WOULD NOT be considering this If I weren't comfortable with her actually firing the weapon.

Also, now that I'm sitting here with mine, it feels that the 1000 rounds or so that has gone through mine, has loosened the action as compared to the new in store guns. I'll have to bring it home and see if that was enough of a change.


We will likely make another trip to the range soon and have her try everything in the case, but I'm jsut lookign for suggestions to narrow down my search.

If it was solely for the purposes of home defense, you could leave it loaded and in the safe without ever worrying about wearing out the spring in the mag (not sure how long that takes to actually happen) and you would not have to worrying about her ability to rack the slide.

If your Glock is broken in enough, than of course just get a new one!

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Originally Posted by NCRAVEN

If it was solely for the purposes of home defense, you could leave it loaded and in the safe without ever worrying about wearing out the spring in the mag (not sure how long that takes to actually happen) and you would not have to worrying about her ability to rack the slide.

If your Glock is broken in enough, than of course just get a new one!

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Yup, I think I am going to hold off on orming a conclusion until after I bring mine back home... probably sunday night. If the break-in is enough difference, then we are in business.

Agree with Sir.

I'd go with a revolver, especially if its going to be used for home defense.

Have you considered a shotgun?

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Originally Posted by HoustonRaven

Agree with Sir.

I'd go with a revolver, especially if its going to be used for home defense.

Have you considered a shotgun?

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Honestly, it really is at least as much for range use as home defense, (knock on wood, it's ONLY for that). She really enjoys our range days.

Haven't really considered a shotgun, no. And as sad as this sounds, she wouldn't want a revolver, she thinks they are "ugly". This will be her gun, so....

Speaking with her, I think she's a the point where she wants to find a way to make the Glock work. I know I have personally seen her rack my slide a few times, so i will just make that part of her responsibility a the range for her "turn". I'm goign to double check her technique and make sure she is pushing with her strong hand while pulling with the weak one. It was jsut a point of information the gun store salsman pointed out that made me realize I was letting her shortcut the process. SHe may be small, but she's not feeble and should be able to do it with practice and good technique.

As for heading back to the OP, after havng been in a gun store eysterday, and talking with the sales staff, there has absolutely been a SERIOUS run on guns in the past month. Their inventory was far weaker then it was this fall, and their re-supply timeline is very vague. Glock's in particular are difficult for them to replenish, and were claimed to be "out of stock" basically everywhere.

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Originally Posted by Paintballguy

I just bought a sig p229 in 40 cal. Next up is a colt m4.


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Get your ammo while you can. You might not be able to according to this. Click on drudge head line and
Sheriff Biden pic on right.



http://www.drudgereport.com/