4th and 1 in 3rd with 34 seconds

**Maelstrom** · 11-25-2012, 09:35 PM

I really like Harbs and don't rag him much except for clock management, but this was a stupid move. In a low scoring slug fest you take the points, especially at the 13 yard line. Who knows what would have happened had the Ravens gotten 3 there instead of 0, but it is likely that the contest would have been tied when the Ravens started their last drive in regulation and that they would have marched down the field for the winning field goal then instead of sending the game to OT. It also would have meant that 4th and 29 would not have been such a huge deal as the game would have likely been tied.

Not only did Harbs nearly cost the game, but he forced his players to play extra time, risking injury. Bad move. But it all worked out in the end. But he shouldn't have done that.

Ray Ray saved Harbs' ass today.

**Bhcforlife** · 11-25-2012, 09:48 PM

I have no problem with going for it on 4th and 1 with how the game was going, but it's ridiculous to not have Rice in the game in that situation. I know Pierce is supposedly a "big back" or whatever, and he's been good in his limited role, but if I'm going for it, I'm going for it with my best offensive player on the field. Not that the end result was any fault of Pierce, just don't understand the logic in going with anyone but your best player in such a crucial situation.

**pslholder96** · 11-25-2012, 09:52 PM

I had more of a problem with the 3&1 QB sneak. It was so obvious to the entire viewing audience what play was coming when the Ravens were walking up to the line of scrimmage. I do agree we should have taken the 3 points because they were hard to come by and have been whenever we are on the road.

**chicagoravensfan** · 11-25-2012, 09:53 PM

I'll never criticize a coach for being too aggressive in that situation, especially because coaches are typically waaaaay too conservative when it comes to 4th down. That said, good lord, what crappy plays on both 3rd and 4th down.

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**Raveninwoodlawn** · 11-25-2012, 09:54 PM

Don't get me started lol...that and playing for the FG at the end of regulation. But we won so it was one of the things the team overcame.

Got to give the team credit.

**NC Raven** · 11-25-2012, 09:59 PM

I thought playing for the FG at the end was fine - we took one shot deep, wasn't there so we made sure to set up the most make able kick possible.

But the 4th and 1 we should have kicked there no doubt.

Agree the QB sneak sucks. We aren't getting the blocking on short yardage runs no matter who carries (eg Pierce stuffed in the backfield even running behind Leach) so it's time to open up a little , slip Leach and/or Pitta out in the flat or something.

**bacchys** · 11-25-2012, 10:01 PM

The QB sneak was a bad spot, imo. It looked to me like Flacco's forward progress made the first down. I didn't have a problem with the call, and would have preferred they run it again when it was 4 and inches. If Flacco can't get 8 inches behind Yanda...well, we're screwed.

That decision to go for it showed faith in the defense, imo. You've got them deep in their own territory, and you're banking that if you don't get the first down they'll get you the ball back with it still being a one score game. It didn't quite work out that way, but it did work out.

**Haloti92** · 11-25-2012, 10:06 PM

I have no problem at all with the 4th and 1 call.

In fact, it may have helped us get the win. It can be argued that SD does not let us march down the field as easily as we did if they are only up 7 (vs. the 10 they were up) with less than a half a quarter left to play. The fact they were up 2 scores seemed to get them into the always-dubious prevent mode whereby getting beat deep is guarded against at the expense of a steady and somewhat time consuming drive.

**iggyman555** · 11-25-2012, 10:53 PM

did anyone see the late hit on flacco on the qb sneak????
how was that not called UGH

**RavensNest** · 11-25-2012, 11:01 PM

Originally Posted by iggyman555

did anyone see the late hit on flacco on the qb sneak????
how was that not called UGH

It all comes back around. Boldin flattened weddle on the rice play....

**Ravenous1** · 11-26-2012, 01:45 AM

My only problem with going for it there was the fact they did not just simply use Joe again. Thought he got it the first time and got a bad spot IMO.

On a side note, I am sure they practice that play but they need to practice it some more. Joe is tall, solid and should not have any problem getting those type of yardages. Just saying, they almost look uncomfortable doing it.

**Bufflehead** · 11-26-2012, 06:44 AM

Ray Ray played i this game? I saw him pumping people up on the sidelines....bit not sure he was out there?

Sorry, only one Ray Ray to me.

Seriously though, I thought we cured some of short yardage issues this year, today was like a flashback.

**Dade** · 11-26-2012, 06:45 AM

I didn't mind that went for it on 4th and 1. I would have rather a better play and have Ray Rice on the field.

**Ravenswintitle** · 11-26-2012, 07:21 AM

I wanted them to go for it but I didn't like the play call and Rice should be in the game. the QB sneak, if Flacco would've gotten low he may've gotten it. Honestly they could've just ran that again on 4th.

**bmorecareful** · 11-26-2012, 07:55 AM

This is outrageous. If your football team can't get a short yard on 4th and 1 they should pack up, go home, and find another career.

Going for it on a short 4th and 1 is correct all the time, every time, no matter what. The problem is they didn't do it SMART. When you get in a 3rd and 1 or 4th and 1 situation, you RUN UP TO THE LINE AND QUICK SNAP THE QB SNEAK. It's the simplest thing in the world, and the Patriots did it like 6 times vs. the Jets the other night.

Playing STUPID football is taking 45 seconds to decide what you want to do, line up, show your hand with your formation, and then run a slow-developing run into the teeth of the defense--exactly what the Ravens did. You don't NEED to do that.

If you don't want to run the quick sneak for whatever reason, you DO have other options, but the key to winning in 1 yard to go situations is catching the defense off guard. You're very rarely going to win at the point of attack when you telegraph plays as badly as the Ravens do and run them as sloppily.

**ravenjoe** · 11-26-2012, 08:03 AM

Originally Posted by Bhcforlife

I have no problem with going for it on 4th and 1 with how the game was going, but it's ridiculous to not have Rice in the game in that situation. I know Pierce is supposedly a "big back" or whatever, and he's been good in his limited role, but if I'm going for it, I'm going for it with my best offensive player on the field. Not that the end result was any fault of Pierce, just don't understand the logic in going with anyone but your best player in such a crucial situation.

More importantly, run to your strength - the play should have been run to the Ravens strong side! They had their 'muscle' on the left, and chose the right....bad move!!

**Cj34** · 11-26-2012, 08:35 AM

Wally Williams summed it up perfectly this morning on 105.7. The reason the Ravens can't sneak the ball is because the sneak is all dependent on OL push. If you're running a QB sneak behind your center and the center is not getting any push what so ever (even getting pushed backwards) then your sneak will never be successful. Let's face it, Matt Birk was a great player, but now he's basically running on fumes. Anytime he's not getting help he loses vs. his assignment. He's a liability one on one. I really hope Gradkowski is ready by next year because if he's not they'll have to spend another draft pick on a center or get one via free agency again.

**bacchys** · 11-26-2012, 08:43 AM

I like what I've seen out of Gradkowski, but he has to get stronger. He seems to have good feet and good technique, but between the season and the off-season, he needs to put on muscle.

**B-more Ravor** · 11-26-2012, 08:54 AM

Originally Posted by bmorecareful

This is outrageous. If your football team can't get a short yard on 4th and 1 they should pack up, go home, and find another career.

Going for it on a short 4th and 1 is correct all the time, every time, no matter what. The problem is they didn't do it SMART. When you get in a 3rd and 1 or 4th and 1 situation, you RUN UP TO THE LINE AND QUICK SNAP THE QB SNEAK. It's the simplest thing in the world, and the Patriots did it like 6 times vs. the Jets the other night.

Agreed. I'm very conservative by nature when it comes to going for it or taking the points, but I had no problem with going for it there. They needed inches, they should be able to get inches.

As you said, a guy like Bill Belichick doesn't even blink about going for it there.