This made me so mad

**Paintballguy** · 11-27-2012, 03:09 PM

Originally Posted by GOTA

That game was the perfect example of how deceiving stats can be. Joe was not very good but guys like Rice, Pitta and Torrey helped his stats tremendously by playing great.

Come on man that is horrible logic. So should Brady's stats not count because he has Gronkowski who has scored a record number of TD's. Plus add in Hernandez and Welker. Or Matt Ryan's stats not count because he has Gonzo, Roddy White and Julio Jones who have been really good.

**lobachevsky** · 11-27-2012, 04:06 PM

Hold on a sec here--

Originally Posted by PerpetuallyBored74

Even when Cam adds more variety to the pass routes, he still tends to avoid sending our WRs over the middle of the field on slants and crossing routes. We saw this in the Eagles in the 2nd half, Chiefs (where we also had drops and penalties killing our offense) and the 1st 3 Qtrs of the Chargers games.

A stupid question just occurred to me:

Does anyone have access to a data base that shows Flacco's attempts, completions, and INTs broken down by where the the ball was thrown (left/center/right and short/medium)/deep)?

Because I have this nagging feeling (which I lack data to back up) that Joe's INTs go up (maybe way up) when he's throwing short or medium over the middle. (And FTR it doesn't matter if the INTs are off tipped balls--that's part of the risk of throwing over the middle.)

We all know that Harbaugh's guiding philosophy is to minimize the risk of bad breaks (most especially including turnovers). If it turns out that Joe does get picked more often over the middle, wouldn't it make (im)perfect sense to Harbs to have Cam take those routes out of the playbook?

At least until you're down a couple of scores in the waning minutes & you have no options but to take chances.

(Does this make sense to anyone but me?)

**RavensQB** · 11-27-2012, 04:19 PM

Originally Posted by PerpetuallyBored74

Schein's another one who watches highlights or looks at the fantasy stats instead of watching the games.

Otherwise he might have noticed what many of us have: that Cam has called games where he constantly sends our WRs on the same 2 routes: the fly or the out; when this happens the other D blanket covers the area downfield outside the hashes leaving our receivers double covered throughout the game. He did this against the Texans & Steelers.

Even when Cam adds more variety to the pass routes, he still tends to avoid sending our WRs over the middle of the field on slants and crossing routes. We saw this in the Eagles in the 2nd half, Chiefs (where we also had drops and penalties killing our offense) and the 1st 3 Qtrs of the Chargers games.

Finally, Cam has another bad habit: sending the RB straight up the middle constantly on 1st & 2nd down, even after the opposing D has adjusted and is poised to defend it; we saw this against the 2nd Browns game for 2 Qtrs.

Hey, waitaminutehere!!!

All of those games have been road games were our offense has sputtered and wheezed for most of the game or simply been DOA.

You think there could be a connection there?

Just look at the quote below... That is CAM

**LC_Ravens_87** · 11-27-2012, 04:20 PM

Originally Posted by lobachevsky

Because I have this nagging feeling (which I lack data to back up) that Joe's INTs go up (maybe way up) when he's throwing short or medium over the middle. (And FTR it doesn't matter if the INTs are off tipped balls--that's part of the risk of throwing over the middle.)

We all know that Harbaugh's guiding philosophy is to minimize the risk of bad breaks (most especially including turnovers). If it turns out that Joe does get picked more often over the middle, wouldn't it make (im)perfect sense to Harbs to have Cam take those routes out of the playbook?

At least until you're down a couple of scores in the waning minutes & you have no options but to take chances.

(Does this make sense to anyone but me?)

I buy it. I think it's quite logical (No numbers either) that Int's go up over the middle b/c there are simply more defenders in between the hashes at all times. I also think that Joe Flacco cares only about winning and not pumping up his own stats for impending Free Agency so he doesn't really ever rock the boat if Harbs and/or Cam want to keep it tight and play it safe.

It's a risk to keep trying to play safe, then Crank it up in the 4th quarter when you need to score. But alternatively, we saw the Ravens super aggressive for the first few weeks of the season as well, and many were belly aching about how Ray Rice didn't touch the ball enough either.

It's a fine line and one that I am glad I don't have to walk.

But I do think the road woes/struggles have gotten into the heads of everyone in the Castle and it has totally changed their approach.,

**arnie_uk** · 11-27-2012, 05:05 PM

Originally Posted by lobachevsky

Hold on a sec here--A stupid question just occurred to me:

Does anyone have access to a data base that shows Flacco's attempts, completions, and INTs broken down by where the the ball was thrown (left/center/right and short/medium)/deep)?

Because I have this nagging feeling (which I lack data to back up) that Joe's INTs go up (maybe way up) when he's throwing short or medium over the middle. (And FTR it doesn't matter if the INTs are off tipped balls--that's part of the risk of throwing over the middle.)

We all know that Harbaugh's guiding philosophy is to minimize the risk of bad breaks (most especially including turnovers). If it turns out that Joe does get picked more often over the middle, wouldn't it make (im)perfect sense to Harbs to have Cam take those routes out of the playbook?

At least until you're down a couple of scores in the waning minutes & you have no options but to take chances.

(Does this make sense to anyone but me?)

1 int between 0 and 9 yards outside the right hash, 50 attempts.
3 int between 10 and 19 yards outside the right hash, 20 attempts.
2 int between 0 and 9 yards up the middle, 94 attempts.
1 int between 10 and 19 yards up the middle, 29 attempts.

His quarterback rating throwing to the middle is 110, 62.9 left hash, 89.1 to the right hash.

7 tds up the middle, 3 tds to the left hash, 4 to he right hash.

His completion percentage in the middle is 76.5, 42.8 to the left hash, and 62.3 to the right hash.

1257 yards up the middle, 427 left hash, 816 right hash.

That's all the stats, but obviously the majority of the passes up the middle would be to rice. 47 percent, 175, of his overall pass attempts are up the middle, but 70 percent of them 175 attempts up the middle travel less than 10 yards in the air.

**PerpetuallyBored74** · 11-27-2012, 05:29 PM

Originally Posted by arnie_uk

1 int between 0 and 9 yards outside the right hash, 50 attempts.
3 int between 10 and 19 yards outside the right hash, 20 attempts.
2 int between 0 and 9 yards up the middle, 94 attempts.
1 int between 10 and 19 yards up the middle, 29 attempts.

What are his stats outside the left hash?
And what about beyond 19 yards?
We all know how much Cam digs the long ball
(And yes, Joe likes it too)

Originally Posted by RavensQB

Just look at the quote below... That is CAM

OT--
Nobody knows for sure if Einstein actually said that.
Those who have been credited with that quote include Ben Franklin, Mark Twain, Rita Mae Brown in her book "Sudden Death" and Narcotics Anonymous:
http://tymora42.wordpress.com/2011/0...erent-results/

**RavensQB** · 11-27-2012, 05:51 PM

Originally Posted by PerpetuallyBored74

OT--
Nobody knows for sure if Einstein actually said that.
Those who have been credited with that quote include Ben Franklin, Mark Twain, Rita Mae Brown in her book "Sudden Death" and Narcotics Anonymous:
http://tymora42.wordpress.com/2011/0...erent-results/

Is that better?

**PerpetuallyBored74** · 11-27-2012, 05:53 PM

It's Rita Mae Brown

And where's the love for Narcotics Anonymous?

<--the closest thing we have to a pothead smiley

**NjRavensFan** · 11-27-2012, 05:58 PM

How could anyone possibly type this:

"The Ravens' defense has not been the same sans injured players Lardarius Webb and Ray Lewis, and the team needed Flacco to provide a boost. He has failed."

How has he failed? The Ravens are 4-1 since those injuries. I thought the goal was to win games?

**Paintballguy** · 11-27-2012, 06:06 PM

Originally Posted by NjRavensFan

How has he failed? The Ravens are 4-1 since those injuries. I thought the goal was to win games?

That's where you are wrong my friend. The goal here is to score fantasy points.

**phacts** · 11-27-2012, 06:14 PM

Originally Posted by somedumbguy

From week to week, I don't trust Joe Flacco either. If by trust you mean have confidence that he will go out and be a great fantasy QB and throw 325/3TD/0Int. He has a lot of up and down games and that is neither a revelation nor a particularly interesting thing to write about at this point in time.

But you know when I do trust Joe Flacco? When the game is on the line, there is 3 minutes left and the Ravens need to score to win. More often than not he finds a way. He did last week against San Diego. Haters are the ones who complain that he checked down on 4th and 29 even though Rice converted. They would have hated if Rice came up short. They would have hated if Flacco through an incomplete pass into triple coverage. They would have called it lucky if he completed the pass and converted. Joe made a decision that instead of trying to force something that wasn't there, he would take his chances by getting the best open field runner in the NFL the ball uncovered in the open field. It was lucky as hell but I am glad he did that instead of trying to go down field on a lower percentage play. Joe found a way because that is what he does.

This.

**FlawlessVictory** · 11-27-2012, 06:37 PM

Originally Posted by lobachevsky

Hold on a sec here--A stupid question just occurred to me:

Does anyone have access to a data base that shows Flacco's attempts, completions, and INTs broken down by where the the ball was thrown (left/center/right and short/medium)/deep)?

This site is cool:

http://www.pro-football-reference.co...1211250sdg.htm

passtargets-sd.jpg

They don't show over the year, but per game on the box scores (SD above)... you can scroll down to Pass Targets (and Rushing)... its format is such to get a visual breakdown.. shows targets and catches, although doesn't show INT locations.

**TL24x7** · 11-27-2012, 09:11 PM

Saw Schein's post as well...and admittedly I'm a fan. But he's off on this one. And he is a fan of Greg Cosell who works at NFL Films who really pinned the offensive woes on the system.

I offered a Point v. Counterpoint HERE

I Tweeted the post to which Schein replied:

Screen+Shot+2012-11-27+at+10.26.02+PM.jpg

**goldenelite28** · 11-27-2012, 10:06 PM

Originally Posted by TL24x7

Saw Schein's post as well...and admittedly I'm a fan. But he's off on this one. And he is a fan of Greg Cosell who works at NFL Films who really pinned the offensive woes on the system.

I offered a Point v. Counterpoint HERE

I Tweeted the post to which Schein replied:

Screen+Shot+2012-11-27+at+10.26.02+PM.jpg

See i have a problem with any article that can be picked apart like you did. Maybe I'm living in a fantasy, but I would think an NFL.com article would contain some actual work and not just be a rehash of what the rest of the media is saying.

**admartian** · 11-27-2012, 10:34 PM

Originally Posted by TL24x7

Saw Schein's post as well...and admittedly I'm a fan. But he's off on this one. And he is a fan of Greg Cosell who works at NFL Films who really pinned the offensive woes on the system.

I offered a Point v. Counterpoint HERE

I Tweeted the post to which Schein replied:

Screen+Shot+2012-11-27+at+10.26.02+PM.jpg

Meh - I still think if you put that performance on the much-beloved Matt Ryan/Brady/RG3 etc etc - they would all be on their knees palming their respective cajones.

I don't buy all this "I'm being objective by hating and putting down a player at every point". It's lazy and all it is really doing is feeding into the masses that don't really want to give any other football team/player their credit when it is due.

**leachisabeast** · 11-28-2012, 03:12 AM

Originally Posted by TL24x7

Saw Schein's post as well...and admittedly I'm a fan. But he's off on this one. And he is a fan of Greg Cosell who works at NFL Films who really pinned the offensive woes on the system.

I offered a Point v. Counterpoint HERE

I Tweeted the post to which Schein replied:

Screen+Shot+2012-11-27+at+10.26.02+PM.jpg

Thanks for this Tony, great response.

**Justlovemybirds** · 11-29-2012, 01:31 PM

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap100...Twitter_Schein

On why he does Jay Cutler

Sure, he doesn't light up the scoreboard or win you your fantasy league. All he does is make the important plays,

Thats pretty much Flacco to a tee.

**admartian** · 11-29-2012, 01:46 PM

Originally Posted by Justlovemybirds

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap100...Twitter_Schein

On why he does Jay Cutler

Thats pretty much Flacco to a tee.

Tell me about it.

**Rex Thunder** · 11-29-2012, 02:24 PM

Originally Posted by JMUpurkfool

If that was a Tom Brady stat line you would never hear it called "average at best".

It really is a joke though, especially when you consider all the drops Joe had. Cam has got to go. His routes and play calls r just way too predictable 75% of the time, that's why Joe has to throws darts every time to have a completion.

**Ravens44** · 11-29-2012, 03:40 PM

Originally Posted by Justlovemybirds

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap100...Twitter_Schein

On why he does Jay Cutler

Thats pretty much Flacco to a tee.

Yeah, I agree too.
And it is simply the media knuckleheads deciding HOW they want to view a certain player.
Joe has just as good of numbers through his first 5 years as Eli and better than Cutler.
But, Joe has SO many wins and not only made the playoffs EVERY season, but always one at least one playoff game to boot.

And if media knuckledraggers will harp about a QB being able to win the big one, they need to make sure they point out how and why they won.
Don't leave out the incredible catches that were made to win both super bowls for ELi and leave out the fact that Joe's receivers every single season have dropped TD passes that would have moved them onto the next level of the playoffs (except as a rookie). The biggest example of course is last year's perfect pass into the stomach of Evans in the endzone in the most pressure packed situation with 22 seconds to go.
If Joe's receivers caught everything near them, there would be a couple of Lombardis next to that 2000 one.
And the pundits wouldn't be talking about Joe like they do.
Joe can't catch the damn thing, too.