Ravens Near Mutiny / Yahoo Story

[MD Boy]

That article further reinforces my opinion about Harbaugh being a great leader. Clearly, Harbaugh has read How to Win Friends and Influence People multiple times because everything he does is taken straight from that book. And if you haven't read that book, it's a must read.

Just ordered it. Thanks for the rec.

[Tyrian]

Reminds me of what Coughlin did actually - reconcile his hard headed style with getting his locker room back together.

What has he got his team to do in the last few years? Two Lombardis.

If Harbs can emulate Coughlin, I could not complain.

[B-more Ravor]

If all of Harbaugh's actions had been perceived to have been justified due to player performance, there would not have been any underlying tension. I am not saying that I think this is a major thing, just that the quote that I cited appeared to me to claim a level of objectivity on the part of Harbaugh that I don't think a number of players would agree that he has demonstrated.

That is - if their problems with him had anything to do with what you preceive to be a doghouse or favoring/disfavoring certain players. There's nothing in the article to indicate that whatever problems some players had with him were about that. There were issues about a padded practice, his demeanor, and his being moddy, overly negative and brusque.

I see nothing there to indicate any issues with playing time or fairness with players. In fact, I would submit that the players are front and center in knowing exactly why certain players aren't playing because they are there to witness the lack of effort on the field (practice and games), in meetings and in the weight room.

[srobert96]

I find it odd that Cam was the one pushing for the no huddle. Hes the OC if he wants it, shouldnt that be the end of it? Its kind of implying Harbaugh is sticking his two sense into the offense, maybe not to its benefit?

I think Harbaugh as a leader has and continues to be good and fair. As a player, i couldnt imagine a much better scenario, especially with how many stubborn coaches are out there. However, i dislike that our players get upset about practicing in pads after an ass kicking the week before. It may have led to a greater conversation, but the fact that they didnt want to strap pads on and got their way seems like they werent "embracing the grind".

Yep. I have come to the conclusion that the crappy offense is the choice of Harbs. Jim and John have the same offensive philosophy. Difference being his brother actually has the personnel to make it succeed. I am not a fan of Cam and still think he needs to go but I am placing more and more of the blame on Harbs. It is like Cam runs John's crappy game plan until they get down by enough and then he is allowed to open it up. New England, Cowboys and San Diego top of mine where the offense looked awful until the team fell behind by 10 points.

[Ravenswintitle]

Yep. I have come to the conclusion that the crappy offense is the choice of Harbs. Jim and John have the same offensive philosophy. Difference being his brother actually has the personnel to make it succeed. I am not a fan of Cam and still think he needs to go but I am placing more and more of the blame on Harbs. It is like Cam runs John's crappy game plan until they get down by enough and then he is allowed to open it up. New England, Cowboys and San Diego top of mine where the offense looked awful until the team fell behind by 10 points.

I've been saying this all year - the HC approves the gameplans and he wants to play low scoring possession games especially on the road. Can't knock him too much; it's working

[mickeyotc]

And we have a glimpse of what Steve Bisciotti saw when he decided to hire this new HC....
that is not an evaluation he can easily convey to the media/fans, but years later we get a glimpse of why Steve is successful because he evaluates people/leadership extremely well.

Well, let's not forget that Bisciotti originally offered the job to Jason Garrett. Thankfully, that didn't end up happening!

And what a great read that article was. I can say from experience, it is a really, really difficult job being "the boss". I admire the way John Harbaugh is going about it.

[Captain Offense]

So is the flavor of this thread that Harbaugh is the Bad Guy and if he just lets Cam loose, this Offense will take off? So it is not Cam holding Flacco down; it is Harbaugh stifling Cam?

Very interesting. Maybe Cam should replace him.

[barnanimal]

While everyone is pretty much exhausted over the Harbaugh/Rex Ryan debate, I think this article really illustrates the difference between the two. Rex admitted to losing the locker room and when Harbaugh felt he was losing it he fought for it and made it stronger. Not to mention, the Ravens don't have "anonymous" players slamming one another in the press. I think it's a testament to the character of this team that NOT A WORD of this leaked out over a month-long span. If this kind of thing happened to the Jets or the Cowboys we'd have heard about it on ESPN nonstop. It's a great sign of professionalism that this kind of thing stayed in house.

[srobert96]

I think Harbaugh is a very good HC. He runs a tight program. I don't necessarily agree with his offensive philosophy but I do think he does a great job of leading the team.

[RavensQB]

First off, every coach has a "doghouse" for those that aren't practicing hard, are out of shape, late for meetings or miss assignments in games.

It's not a "grudge" if you are allowed out of the doghouse if you do what is expected of you - see Le'Ron McClain, Ellerbe and McGahee. For others who don't - Gaither, McKinnie - it's also not a "grudge" because they never started doing what you were supposed to be doing.

I AGREEEEEEEE
Bullsheeeeet

"I've got a rule: I never, ever, ever hold a grudge," Harbaugh said. "And I kind of have a rule that nobody else is allowed to hold a grudge, either. There are no grudges. We're a bunch of guys. We don't hold grudges. Right? We move on."

[AirFlacco]

Reminds me of what Coughlin did actually - reconcile his hard headed style with getting his locker room back together.

What has he got his team to do in the last few years? Two Lombardis.

If Harbs can emulate Coughlin, I could not complain.

Great point.


I was going to say if Reed thinks HARBs has a tough camp and practice, he should see Coughlin's who has the hardest
two a days in the NFL but he's a great one. I didn't know Coughlin had that meeting too.

Shula had tough camps and practices too and so did Weeb. When McCafferty followed Shula, Matte and the guys
called him Easy Rider but he won the SB too, just like Billick with Camp Cream Puff. Shannahan also ran the same camp
so much can be said about both extremes.

Im sure Reed liked Billick's practices better but I always loved putting the pads and helmet on at my lowly organizational
level. Five of us trained all summer long in pads and helmet in extreme heat running up that big hill at Woodbourne Jr Hi to make our hi school team at City. Only one made the team
but we had a blast.

[purplepoe]

This is scary. It sounds like these are issues that have been boiling over for a while now and it just erupted. To Harbaugh's credit, he handled it well. I am just hoping whatever was going on is behind them.

I agree.

I would also like to know what unnamed player was being quoted in the article.

I'd bet good money it wasn't a seasoned vet.

Things will stay calm until this team sees a losing streak.

If this team happens to go on a losing streak we'll see just how therapeutic this incident really was.

PP

[wickedsolo]

Great article, but I have to call BS on this Harbaugh quote:



Harbaugh most definately has a doghouse, which I would equate to holding a grudge.

Of course you would call BS on that.

What would happen to your Bryant McKinnie theories if it *GASP!* weren't true!?

[wickedsolo]

I think Harbaugh plays favorites. He elevates guys he likes and sidetracks guys that he doesn't like. That could be due to real or perceived lack of effort during practice by players or due to the personality of certain players. My point is that some decisions that Harbaugh makes IMO are not based on performance on the field, but on very subjective criteria. I guess every coach does that to a certain extent, but I read from Harbaugh's quote that he bases his actions on objective criteria, which I disagree with.

Prove it.

You keep claiming this, but you've still yet to really prove that a guy would rather play lesser caliber players than win. I know you're not "exactly" saying that, but it is what you're implying when you say things like Harbs only plays the guys he likes.

[SugarRay52]

I agree.

I would also like to know what unnamed player was being quoted in the article.

I'd bet good money it wasn't a seasoned vet.

Things will stay calm until this team sees a losing streak.

If this team happens to go on a losing streak we'll see just how therapeutic this incident really was.

PP

Are you one of those fans who are waiting for this team to fall apart and say I told you so?

[pslholder96]

Are you one of those fans who are waiting for this team to fall apart and say I told you so?

It's so tempting to name a few for you right now........

[HoustonRaven]

I'd bet good money it wasn't a seasoned vet.

I'd take that bet.

Who else would be surprised by Harbs' actions besides a player who has been around him a while?

How / why would a newer player have an insight on this new side of him?

[purplepoe]

Are you one of those fans who are waiting for this team to fall apart and say I told you so?

Ugh.

This F'n board.

PP

[purplepoe]

I'd take that bet.

Who else would be surprised by Harbs' actions besides a player who has been around him a while?

How / why would a newer player have an insight on this new side of him?

Someone could be surprised from training camp till now.

We'll never know though.

PP

[Captain Silver]

Well, as the resident President of the Anti-Harbaugh League, it is good to see him and the team come together. Obviously I don't know all the players gripes, practice etcetera, but it shows me that the players likely have some of the same gripes I do about coach Harbaugh.

And for what it is worth, I hope I eat my words and see John hoist the Lombardi trophy, but all this doesn't translate into a title. The group hug is nice and all, but if we are on the road in the playoffs and the offense shits the bed like it has, this article, this thread, and all the fuzzy feelings mean shit.