si.com compares home Joe vs. road Joe

[Ravens44]

Someone needs to post the stats of which part of the field is being used for passes. I saw one where the sidelines were in the 60's and the middle was in the teens.

Yes, I would be interested in that, too.
So many fans have complained about the same things for years.

We know that many times, the routes are not run to the 1st down sticks, so the player has to make a great individual effort to get the first.

We know the receivers, for years now, regardless of their age, experience, size, or speed, CANNOT get separation.
That means each receiver, when the ball is thrown towards him into that tiny little window Joe has to work with, each receiver has to fight for the ball or make a spectacular catch on what should be just normal plays.

We also know that every week, we all see opposing offenses use different formations and rubs and pairings of receivers to naturally gain separation without breaking the rules, helping the receivers, as well as, the quarterback succeed. And many times, those opposing players are not as good as our current roster.

I believe, that with this group of offensive skill players, there is not one team in this league that should be able to shutdown our offense.
If our receivers were running free with at least 3 yards separation like every other team in the league, we would see Joe simply flourish.
He wouldn't need 5-6 seconds to find a receiver who has position but no separation and then try to fit the ball through the defender's ear hole to get it to his receiver.

This is what I see week in and week out.

Now, opposing defenses have figured out to flip their safeties and corners to undercut Joe's out passes and yet cover our speed guys over the top.
Cam did not figure this out, nor did his coaches upstairs tell him.
Yet, that is what the Steelers did the entire game the week before...
so, the Chargers, who actually watch tape, did it, too.
It took Boldin, during last game to tell Cam about it before anything changed and THEN in the second half, starting using other parts of the field and Joe starting having success.

These are the things that frustrate the fans who see the same thing every week, while the coaches continue to live in a bubble cut off from the outside world, and relentlessly run the same plays that other teams are sitting there waiting for.

[festivus]

I don't buy into the "confidence" argument, because we've *all* seen that when the pressure is on then Joe plays his best.

I don't know what accounts for the difference but I suspect it has to do with scheme & play calling, as others have said.

If Joe played consistently poorly *within* games on the road I might buy into this story of home Joe/road Joe, but anyone who watches Ravens football knows that within a game you will see "home Joe" on the road sometimes, particularly in the 2 minute offense.

I don't know what's really going on, but I am (still) skeptical of the home/road distinction & backseat psychiatric analysis of Joe. I think it's something else, perhaps related to the road scheme & play calling. Perhaps not.

[Raveninwoodlawn]

Now if we're addressing Cams play calling, as I've seen you post before, it's not so much the play calling, it's the system and those long ass developing routes, that's the problem here. You can't just have your QB sit back and wait for someone to get open, our Oline would need JO back at LT and a bunch of all pro's to do that in todays league.

Those long developing plays kill a mediocre offensive line. Makes them look worse than what they are.

Part of the reason why nobody is a fan of Cam.

[leachisabeast]

Those long developing plays kill a mediocre offensive line. Makes them look worse than what they are.

Part of the reason why nobody is a fan of Cam.

Even when we had the best line in the league from 08 to 09 they struggled in pass pro with this system.

[ravensnhokies]

Joe not having confidence in his OL protecting him on the road is a well founded reason for the discrepancy, IMO. We've seen in the past Joe on the road getting destroyed almost immediately b/c of breakdown in OL protection (ie. Allen in Minny, numerous Steeler games among others). As a QB your natural response is to avoid getting hurt and we know Joe is good at that. As a result Joe's internal timeclock on the road is much shorter. Because of Joe's road timeclock quickened, he will miss a few opportunities when the OL actually does provide better protection on specific plays but unfortunately Joe has already released the pass before a better pass option has opened up. Its a Catch 22.. Sure we want Joe to slow it down a bit on the road b/c there would be nice opportunities downfield from the longer developing routes in the Cam offense if Joe waits a little long. Yet we dont want Joe to wait too long and get himself hurt. We are screwed then. If there is one QB skillset which Joe possesses that might be average or possibly below is anticipating the rush and making the small movements to buy yourself some extra time (again my opinion). Given all these factors, I still come back to Cam to remedy the 'road woes'. It is his job to make things easier for the offense. The long developing downfield patterns that are explosive when successful but unsuccessful without good pass pro should not be a staple. Sure we still keep them in, but we need more quicker developing patterns...... more bunch formations/crossing patterns. You know, the same changes we've bitched about forever. Hey at least we saw Torrey on the inside successfully take those crossing patterns for nice gains. That was something out of the ordinary for Cam.

[Ravenswintitle]

That's a great article and a refreshing look at specifics (as opposed to idiocy of rharris)

[The Excellector]

I think that one major reason why posters are reluctant to place the majority of the blame at Flacco's feet is, because he's stepped up at the most crucial moments, in the most crucial games. When you don't have to 'shield' your QB, in the big moments of the big games, you know that you have something special and we've all seen it.

Psychologically, it seems clear to me that Joe Flacco has all of the confidence in the world, in himself. He wants to go for the throat. However, particularly when things get 'tough', on the road, the coaching philosophy does not match what Joe really wants to do. The coaching philosophy becomes, 'play it safe, keep it close and win it in the fourth quarter'. That's why they come on so strong in the fourth and have done so the past few years.

The issue with the offensive line is where it starts. Joe does not seem to have the same confidence in the offensive line, on the road, because they just don't play as well.

Now, this is where I feel that someone like Caldwell would be a better coordinator. In Indianapolis, the one thing that Peyton wanted to do was go deep and go for the throat. However, in trying to contain him, teams kept their safeties back. So, Peyton and Co. found ways to move the safeties up and/or deal with the blitz. They set up the deeper routes with the slants and ins of the world. After a while, teams were forced to play those routes. That's when Peyton started hitting the sluggos' and the in-and-ups. That's what he wanted to do all along.

That's what Flacco wants to do here. Where Caldwell has helped is in teaching Flacco how to use fake audibles to his advantage, to manipulate the defense. We've seen that more at home. However, on the road where the line does not play as well, this is where Cameron needs to provide those slants', ins' and crossing patterns to set up what they really want to do. You actually saw some of that last week and it eventually opened up the deeper routes.

On the road, they just don't do it consistently enough. Using those routes can also help get the line into a rhythm.

Part of that is Cameron's administration of the scheme. Part of that is Harbaugh's conservative approach. Both lend themselves to waiting, until they absolutely have to, to turn the offense over to Flacco again. Instead of using those slants and crossing routes earlier in the game, to help the offense maintain any sense of momentum, thus 'working through the problems', like I've been complaining about for two years now, they'll go conservative and wait until the last minutes to finally let Flacco run the show again.

[LC_Ravens_87]

Have to take issue with the article claiming that the O-line is virtually the same in the two games they compared.

Against Dallas--1 sack, 3 qb hits

Against San Diego--5 sacks, 6 qb hits

Granted Flacco passed it 15 more times against the Chargers, and the ravens ran almost double the number of plays against the Chargers as they did against the Cowboys.

But also against Dallas there were 2 TFL and against San Diego there were 9 TKL.

Not the same level of performance by the men up front if you ask me.

[yahoomas]

Hi. new guy here. I`ve been here before, but forgotten my name.

I don`t agree with the article. Like many have said before, Flacco plays his best when the pressure is on. I think it`s a combination of playdesign, incosistent blocking and conservative mentality/playcalling.
Let`s look at a couple of things.
Flacco has a better completion % on 3rd and long, then 3rd and short. How is that possible?
Flacco would have close to elite stats if he could only get his TDs up. Why does he have so few TDs? The Ravens compared to other teams rarely throw the ball inside the opponents 10 and 20, despite Joe not being particular error prone in that area.
Fewest attempts in the league inside the 10. And amoung the fewest inside the 20. Why is that? I think it may be the same reason we`re so horrible passing on 3rd and short. Playdesign and situational playcalling. Our offense is not built for those situations. It seems even the short routes takes long to develop. We need more quick timing patterns. I would love to see some more slants or quick comebacks. Those plays has a chance to go for big yardage, if Torrey just makes 1 guy miss. It would also help our o-line on the road. Add to that, I think Harbaugh is a conservative coach, which makes him especially conservative on the road. Haurbaugh saying we want to bring AFC north football to the west coast was a hint. Also the fact that they have a great home field advantage makes them look really bad in comparrison.

[wickedsolo]

Those long developing plays kill a mediocre offensive line. Makes them look worse than what they are.

Part of the reason why nobody is a fan of Cam.

Oh, and

[HKusp]

I don't know how much you can read into him missing another option on a few select plays. I suspect they are making their case with these 2 plays, and in reality there are many examples of him doing the same thing. I realize they don't want to go over example after example because of space restrictions, but I guarantee they can do the same thing for EVERY quarterback in the league, even Manning, Rodgers and Brady. Meaning the Qb may pick an open receiver and there was a "better" route that got open on the same play. The difference may be that Joe does it much more on the road then at home, and he may certainly do it a few more times that the other guys I mentioned, but they all make choices during a game. These things happen SO fast in the NFL, it just takes making the decision really quickly to a whole new level. Some guys are Fantastic at it like Manning, Brady, etc., and some a just good at it like Joe. They all miss on some routes though.

[yahoomas]

Found another stat.

Flaccos QB rating with 2 WRs: 70.
with 3 WRs: 87.
with 4 WRs: 92.
This doesn`t seem to be a league wide trend either.
So it seems, by playing conservative, with fewer WRs on the field, where not playing to Flaccos strength. We`re actually taking it away. One more reason for Cam to be gone.

[HKusp]

Have to take issue with the article claiming that the O-line is virtually the same in the two games they compared.

Against Dallas--1 sack, 3 qb hits

Against San Diego--5 sacks, 6 qb hits

Granted Flacco passed it 15 more times against the Chargers, and the ravens ran almost double the number of plays against the Chargers as they did against the Cowboys.

But also against Dallas there were 2 TFL and against San Diego there were 9 TKL.

Not the same level of performance by the men up front if you ask me.

I think in the article, they are saying that the O-line performance was similar only in the 2 plays they were dissecting, not necessarily the whole game. That is the way I took it.

[JMUpurkfool]

The problem with that San Diego play is that it was like 3rd and 20 something. Pitta was open but also had four Chargers within 6-7 yards of him. If that ball was under thrown even a little than it was an interception.

I'm sure Flacco was a little apprehensive on the play as well, because KO had just absolutely whiffed on the previous play and Joe had .2 seconds to throw the ball.

On the shallow to Pitta, I can guarantee you that Torrey is at least the third read on that play. The play is designed for Jacoby to clear the linebacker or safety out of the area for Pitta. Pitta was open and he hit him for a first down. I believe that his next read would be Jacoby if the player stayed closer to the line of scrimmage and Joe would then move to Torrey.

[bmoreraventerp]

I think another flaw of the article is that they compare Flacco going for a long pass on 3rd and long and completing it versus a 3rd and like 5 and not throwing it long if he waited. On third down, I imagine the primary thought is to throw for first down on the safest play possible. So throwing it on the shorter route to Pitta to get the first down instead of waiting until Smith gets opened further down field is a bad example. I think most good QBs would throw it for the first down to Pitta when hes open on a short route versus waiting for a longer developing down field pass on third down.

[Jsmoove]

is it me or when we are on the road WRs routes seem to go 10YRDS out and to the sidelines, and TE's run that same drag route underneath short of the 1st down marker..ALL THE TIME, then deep post routes where??? to the sidelines, the times they do let boldin go to the middle of the field is 9/10 money. There's no slants, no rubs, no pick plays, screens never work or they do once and we forget them. Nothin to help Joe get into a rhythm; I blame this squearely on Cam, it also puts alot of pressure on an already average Oline to look way worse. Its like Cam keep tryna hit the long ball to get Joe in a rhythm and Joe keeps missing so he never does.

[PerpetuallyBored74]

Deep pass plays are timing plays, where the QB is throwing to a spot downfield with the expectation that the receiver will reach that spot on time and in time to catch the ball.
When you constantly send receivers deep, the opposing teams D's prepare and practice for it. They either double cover those routes or focus on disrupting the synchronicity between Joe and his receivers by jamming them at the line, rerouting them right off the line and/or just flat-out interfering with them--gambling that they won't get flagged because usually they don't.
Some of Joe's "overthrows" are actually accurate passes were the receiver was unable to get to the correct spot in time because he got held, arm-barred, grabbed, or totally bumped off his route.
For example, in the Chargers game, Joe threw a deep pass down the middle of the field to Torrey that fell in the end zone (or close to it) about 20 yards away from Torrey. At the time Fouts and Eagle wondered where Joe was throwing it, so they went back to the replay and it showed the Chargers safety running straight at and slamming right into Torrey when they were a good 20 yards downfield. No flag for PI or even illegal contact, of course.
And when Fouts saw that he started to say something but then stopped--almost as if he realized that his Chargers had gotten away with one and didn't want to call too much attention to that.
That pass would've been a TD too.

Joe is like every other QB--he has to get into a good rhythm to play his best. Deep passes are low percentage passes under normal circumstances, but when the opposing D is prepared and sitting on those routes (likewise with all those out routes) then they become even lower percentage passes. Which obviously makes it impossible for Joe (and the receivers and O-line) to get into any kind of rhythm.

The idea that both Cam and Harbs seem to be oblivious to this is discouraging. And if that is the effect that it has on us fans, to leave us discouraged, just imaging the impact on the players.

Because Joe's not the only one who lacks confidence when the playcalling is wrong for the situation, all or most of the players on the offense are just as affected. That's why it isn't just Joe who looks bad during those times--the entire offense looks anemic.

tl;dr
Too often, Cam sux, here's 1 of the main reasons why

[psuasskicker]

Only have a minute, but here's the problem I have with this...

• At home, Flacco is 23 for 36 for 397 yards on passes thrown between 10-19 yards downfield; on the road, he’s 12 for 34 for 211 at the same distance.

• At home, Flacco has completed 18 of 37 passes thrown deeper than 20 yards for 578 yards; on the road, he’s 8 for 32 for 221.

This here makes up a big reason for the difference in Joe's (and the Ravens) offensive stats...if for no other reason than he's not extending drives and getting the team deeper into scoring range and getting those opportunities to score. The problem is, we're talking about the difference of about 15-20 completions.

That's WAY too small a sample size to say there's an actual issue. 10-15 more completion differences at those spots gets him numbers probably fairly close to his home numbers...at least enough that there isn't a massive difference. Meanwhile, the defenses of their home opponents is markedly different than that of their road opponents (especially if you consider Philly's early D which was rated quite highly until, ironically, they fired Castillo).

Bottom line, one thing we simply can't rule out here is luck. Give him seven fewer completions at home on those balls, and ten more on the road - out of almost 400 passes thrown - and his numbers are likely a LOT closer. We can't rule this out as one of the big factors.

- C -

[alienrace]

Ok, I finally got to watch the game in it's entirety today, and I gotta say, WTF WTF WTF are you guys talking about Joe's confidence for? At NO point in this game did Joe seem to lack confidence. Sometimes I think half of you are smoking dope while watching the game!

And another thing, the offensive line was HORRIBLE in the first half, and Jones and Boldin dropped two crucial passes that would have extended drives that probably would have led to scores. Joe did miss a couple of throws, including the one to Pitta near the end of the half, so he wasn't blameless for the lack of offense in the first half, but hello, lack of confidence? What is wrong with you people? Have you not been watching/listening to this guy in the five years he's been here? He certainly doesn't lack confidence, and he once again, came through in the clutch in a difficult situation. What is this, 4th quarter comeback #3 just this year?

Are you people for real?

[PerpetuallyBored74]

Jacksonville last year, Texans this year, Joe was not playing with confidence in either game once it became clear that both the O + Cam did not have it that day.