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  1. #25

    Re: si.com compares home Joe vs. road Joe



    Joe not having confidence in his OL protecting him on the road is a well founded reason for the discrepancy, IMO. We've seen in the past Joe on the road getting destroyed almost immediately b/c of breakdown in OL protection (ie. Allen in Minny, numerous Steeler games among others). As a QB your natural response is to avoid getting hurt and we know Joe is good at that. As a result Joe's internal timeclock on the road is much shorter. Because of Joe's road timeclock quickened, he will miss a few opportunities when the OL actually does provide better protection on specific plays but unfortunately Joe has already released the pass before a better pass option has opened up. Its a Catch 22.. Sure we want Joe to slow it down a bit on the road b/c there would be nice opportunities downfield from the longer developing routes in the Cam offense if Joe waits a little long. Yet we dont want Joe to wait too long and get himself hurt. We are screwed then. If there is one QB skillset which Joe possesses that might be average or possibly below is anticipating the rush and making the small movements to buy yourself some extra time (again my opinion). Given all these factors, I still come back to Cam to remedy the 'road woes'. It is his job to make things easier for the offense. The long developing downfield patterns that are explosive when successful but unsuccessful without good pass pro should not be a staple. Sure we still keep them in, but we need more quicker developing patterns...... more bunch formations/crossing patterns. You know, the same changes we've bitched about forever. Hey at least we saw Torrey on the inside successfully take those crossing patterns for nice gains. That was something out of the ordinary for Cam.




  2. #26
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    Re: si.com compares home Joe vs. road Joe

    That's a great article and a refreshing look at specifics (as opposed to idiocy of rharris)
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  3. #27

    Re: si.com compares home Joe vs. road Joe

    I think that one major reason why posters are reluctant to place the majority of the blame at Flacco's feet is, because he's stepped up at the most crucial moments, in the most crucial games. When you don't have to 'shield' your QB, in the big moments of the big games, you know that you have something special and we've all seen it.

    Psychologically, it seems clear to me that Joe Flacco has all of the confidence in the world, in himself. He wants to go for the throat. However, particularly when things get 'tough', on the road, the coaching philosophy does not match what Joe really wants to do. The coaching philosophy becomes, 'play it safe, keep it close and win it in the fourth quarter'. That's why they come on so strong in the fourth and have done so the past few years.

    The issue with the offensive line is where it starts. Joe does not seem to have the same confidence in the offensive line, on the road, because they just don't play as well.

    Now, this is where I feel that someone like Caldwell would be a better coordinator. In Indianapolis, the one thing that Peyton wanted to do was go deep and go for the throat. However, in trying to contain him, teams kept their safeties back. So, Peyton and Co. found ways to move the safeties up and/or deal with the blitz. They set up the deeper routes with the slants and ins of the world. After a while, teams were forced to play those routes. That's when Peyton started hitting the sluggos' and the in-and-ups. That's what he wanted to do all along.

    That's what Flacco wants to do here. Where Caldwell has helped is in teaching Flacco how to use fake audibles to his advantage, to manipulate the defense. We've seen that more at home. However, on the road where the line does not play as well, this is where Cameron needs to provide those slants', ins' and crossing patterns to set up what they really want to do. You actually saw some of that last week and it eventually opened up the deeper routes.

    On the road, they just don't do it consistently enough. Using those routes can also help get the line into a rhythm.

    Part of that is Cameron's administration of the scheme. Part of that is Harbaugh's conservative approach. Both lend themselves to waiting, until they absolutely have to, to turn the offense over to Flacco again. Instead of using those slants and crossing routes earlier in the game, to help the offense maintain any sense of momentum, thus 'working through the problems', like I've been complaining about for two years now, they'll go conservative and wait until the last minutes to finally let Flacco run the show again.
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  4. #28

    Re: si.com compares home Joe vs. road Joe

    Have to take issue with the article claiming that the O-line is virtually the same in the two games they compared.

    Against Dallas--1 sack, 3 qb hits

    Against San Diego--5 sacks, 6 qb hits

    Granted Flacco passed it 15 more times against the Chargers, and the ravens ran almost double the number of plays against the Chargers as they did against the Cowboys.

    But also against Dallas there were 2 TFL and against San Diego there were 9 TKL.

    Not the same level of performance by the men up front if you ask me.




  5. #29

    Re: si.com compares home Joe vs. road Joe

    Hi. new guy here. I`ve been here before, but forgotten my name.

    I don`t agree with the article. Like many have said before, Flacco plays his best when the pressure is on. I think it`s a combination of playdesign, incosistent blocking and conservative mentality/playcalling.
    Let`s look at a couple of things.
    Flacco has a better completion % on 3rd and long, then 3rd and short. How is that possible?
    Flacco would have close to elite stats if he could only get his TDs up. Why does he have so few TDs? The Ravens compared to other teams rarely throw the ball inside the opponents 10 and 20, despite Joe not being particular error prone in that area.
    Fewest attempts in the league inside the 10. And amoung the fewest inside the 20. Why is that? I think it may be the same reason we`re so horrible passing on 3rd and short. Playdesign and situational playcalling. Our offense is not built for those situations. It seems even the short routes takes long to develop. We need more quick timing patterns. I would love to see some more slants or quick comebacks. Those plays has a chance to go for big yardage, if Torrey just makes 1 guy miss. It would also help our o-line on the road. Add to that, I think Harbaugh is a conservative coach, which makes him especially conservative on the road. Haurbaugh saying we want to bring AFC north football to the west coast was a hint. Also the fact that they have a great home field advantage makes them look really bad in comparrison.




  6. #30
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    Re: si.com compares home Joe vs. road Joe

    Quote Originally Posted by Raveninwoodlawn View Post
    Those long developing plays kill a mediocre offensive line. Makes them look worse than what they are.

    Part of the reason why nobody is a fan of Cam.





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  7. #31

    Re: si.com compares home Joe vs. road Joe

    I don't know how much you can read into him missing another option on a few select plays. I suspect they are making their case with these 2 plays, and in reality there are many examples of him doing the same thing. I realize they don't want to go over example after example because of space restrictions, but I guarantee they can do the same thing for EVERY quarterback in the league, even Manning, Rodgers and Brady. Meaning the Qb may pick an open receiver and there was a "better" route that got open on the same play. The difference may be that Joe does it much more on the road then at home, and he may certainly do it a few more times that the other guys I mentioned, but they all make choices during a game. These things happen SO fast in the NFL, it just takes making the decision really quickly to a whole new level. Some guys are Fantastic at it like Manning, Brady, etc., and some a just good at it like Joe. They all miss on some routes though.




  8. #32

    Re: si.com compares home Joe vs. road Joe

    Found another stat.

    Flaccos QB rating with 2 WRs: 70.
    with 3 WRs: 87.
    with 4 WRs: 92.
    This doesn`t seem to be a league wide trend either.
    So it seems, by playing conservative, with fewer WRs on the field, where not playing to Flaccos strength. We`re actually taking it away. One more reason for Cam to be gone.




  9. #33

    Re: si.com compares home Joe vs. road Joe

    Quote Originally Posted by LC_Ravens_87 View Post
    Have to take issue with the article claiming that the O-line is virtually the same in the two games they compared.

    Against Dallas--1 sack, 3 qb hits

    Against San Diego--5 sacks, 6 qb hits

    Granted Flacco passed it 15 more times against the Chargers, and the ravens ran almost double the number of plays against the Chargers as they did against the Cowboys.

    But also against Dallas there were 2 TFL and against San Diego there were 9 TKL.

    Not the same level of performance by the men up front if you ask me.
    I think in the article, they are saying that the O-line performance was similar only in the 2 plays they were dissecting, not necessarily the whole game. That is the way I took it.




  10. #34

    Re: si.com compares home Joe vs. road Joe

    The problem with that San Diego play is that it was like 3rd and 20 something. Pitta was open but also had four Chargers within 6-7 yards of him. If that ball was under thrown even a little than it was an interception.

    I'm sure Flacco was a little apprehensive on the play as well, because KO had just absolutely whiffed on the previous play and Joe had .2 seconds to throw the ball.

    On the shallow to Pitta, I can guarantee you that Torrey is at least the third read on that play. The play is designed for Jacoby to clear the linebacker or safety out of the area for Pitta. Pitta was open and he hit him for a first down. I believe that his next read would be Jacoby if the player stayed closer to the line of scrimmage and Joe would then move to Torrey.




  11. #35

    Re: si.com compares home Joe vs. road Joe

    I think another flaw of the article is that they compare Flacco going for a long pass on 3rd and long and completing it versus a 3rd and like 5 and not throwing it long if he waited. On third down, I imagine the primary thought is to throw for first down on the safest play possible. So throwing it on the shorter route to Pitta to get the first down instead of waiting until Smith gets opened further down field is a bad example. I think most good QBs would throw it for the first down to Pitta when hes open on a short route versus waiting for a longer developing down field pass on third down.




  12. #36
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    Re: si.com compares home Joe vs. road Joe

    is it me or when we are on the road WRs routes seem to go 10YRDS out and to the sidelines, and TE's run that same drag route underneath short of the 1st down marker..ALL THE TIME, then deep post routes where??? to the sidelines, the times they do let boldin go to the middle of the field is 9/10 money. There's no slants, no rubs, no pick plays, screens never work or they do once and we forget them. Nothin to help Joe get into a rhythm; I blame this squearely on Cam, it also puts alot of pressure on an already average Oline to look way worse. Its like Cam keep tryna hit the long ball to get Joe in a rhythm and Joe keeps missing so he never does.




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