The "Flacco Thread" (Merged from 5 threads)

**palukaraven** · 12-03-2012, 09:34 AM

Hard to say. Teaching Joe the same mechanics and semantics as those Manning used probably isn't applicable to Joe, as each quarterback has their own learning and playing style. With that said, it seems as though Joe has been involved with more calls at the line of scrimmage this season, but other than this I personally don't see any change.
As far as teaching Joe intangibles, I think Caldwell can only do so much, the rest is up to Joe.

**NCRAVEN** · 12-03-2012, 09:36 AM

Good question and a hard one to say for sure. I think we could say where he hasn't helped him, but there are already 10 threads where that's being talked about.

**Kevlar** · 12-03-2012, 09:43 AM

I think Joe is trying a lot of new things this season. Unfortunately he hasn't been very successful.

**bengtc** · 12-03-2012, 09:43 AM

I'm seeing more regression than progression, 2 years in a row under 60% pass completion, pocket awareness seems to be getting worse, making less plays with his feet, ball handling(play action, etc) is worse.

**Ravens27Girl** · 12-03-2012, 09:45 AM

Originally Posted by palukaraven

Hard to say. Teaching Joe the same mechanics and semantics as those Manning used probably isn't applicable to Joe, as each quarterback has their own learning and playing style. With that said, it seems as though Joe has been involved with more calls at the line of scrimmage this season, but other than this I personally don't see any change.
As far as teaching Joe intangibles, I think Caldwell can only do so much, the rest is up to Joe.

I assumed that was the case to push Joe into more leadership of this offense. It should be a no brainer in his
5th year that he should/could/would have the ability to audible and should be given that freedom. But what about fundamentals, improved technique and mental eptitude? In other words, what tangibles are we seeing on the field that seem to be a direct influence of having Caldwell for Joe? Was Caldwell money well spent as a QB coach for Flacco?

**Jsmoove** · 12-03-2012, 09:52 AM

I wonder what caldwell has to say about the system? I mean how can he teach Joe things when Joe is in a system that is set up failure?

**Jsmoove** · 12-03-2012, 09:58 AM

I'll book it to say if we get cordinator in here that runs a west coast spread offense we will SEE Joe flacco in the top 10. Book that shit! This croyell shit needs to go there is only 3 trees to the route this team runs, Deep ball to the sidelienes, out routes on the intermediate and curls and drags in the short, that shit is too easy to defend, there is no imagination, no substance to the offense, there is always just 3 wrs sets in the shotgun, there is no flooding the zones, no trips sets, no SLANTS, NO PICKS, NO RUBS, NO SCREENS OF ANY SORT, NO TRUE SPREAD FORMATION, THERE'S NOTHING BUT 3 WIDEOUTS RUNNING THE SAME THREE ROUTES ALL THE TIME!!!

**Lee Van Cleef** · 12-03-2012, 10:00 AM

Honestly, I've never been convinced of Joe's deep accuracy, he is so often just a beat off in delivering the ball leading to it being underthrown and the receiver having to slow up and getting caught, or overthrowing the receiver. It seems to be a consistent problem and I'm not entirely sure why it's so prevalent.

**Jsmoove** · 12-03-2012, 10:01 AM

Originally Posted by Lee Van Cleef

Honestly, I've never been convinced of Joe's deep accuracy, he is so often just a beat off in delivering the ball leading to it being underthrown and the receiver having to slow up and getting caught, or overthrowing the receiver. It seems to be a consistent problem and I'm not entirely sure why it's so prevalent.

WELL when a defense knows what your going to do and with shit Oline its hard to make those throws.

**AirFlacco** · 12-03-2012, 10:15 AM

This is the Caldwell effect.

Casserly said Joe has improved this year because he's getting the ball out quicker and is more accurate. That was before last night but with all the pressure Piss threw at him
it wasn't all his fault.

Game was lost in the trenches as usual.

Casserly was the Ozzie Newsome of the 90s giving Joe Gibbs all that SB talent and
set up Houston as its first GM.

**Lee Van Cleef** · 12-03-2012, 10:17 AM

Originally Posted by Jsmoove

WELL when a defense knows what your going to do and with shit Oline its hard to make those throws.

So does not stepping up into the pocket and holding on too long. When your receiver is streaking down the field with yards of separation I don't think you can blame that on the defense knowing what you are going to do because the play is still there to be made. The OL is a fair point but it's not an issue that improves in games where he has more time.

**ballhawk** · 12-03-2012, 10:28 AM

Originally Posted by GOTA

I think we can all now see why so many teams were willing to give up so much for an old beat up Peyton Manning. There just aren't too many QBs who can do what he can do. That doesn't mean that almost everyone else is complete crap because they will never be one of the all time greats.

Before giving up on Flacco we need to see him play under a different OC. Too many people from fans to analysts have issues with Cam Cameron. We need to see what Flacco can do with someone else. The Falcons felt the same way with Matt Ryan last year, brought in Dirk Koetter and Ryan is having the best season of his career. It's time to do the same thing here. Only then will we know if the problem is Flacco and not the offensive coaches and system.

Too little too late. Thats exactly why they should have fired cameron two years ago. Now what do they do? Franchise Flacco next year and see how he does in another system? Or give him his contract and pray that he can improve in another system? What a mess.

**Jsmoove** · 12-03-2012, 10:29 AM

birk spend most of his time on his back or in thebackfield, the middle of the Oline has been bad all season long, I don't see any recievers getting separation downfield teams have keyed in on play calling they know the routes just watch the road games, and now they figured it out at home.

**Dirt1** · 12-03-2012, 10:33 AM

Originally Posted by redmike34

I like this line of thought.

It really amazes me what Jim Harbaugh has accomplished with that team. He took what everybody thought was a first round bust and turned him into a dependable and serviceable, if somewhat limited, QB. I'd take that system here in a heartbeat.

With Flacco... if the Ravens keep Cam, is there anyone who thinks we'll ever get much better than what we've gotten? If they get rid of Cam, are we SURE Flacco will be better? Sure enough to spend a sizable percentage of the cap on it?

Let's see how the season ends up. This team may have had a fire lit under it today, or it may crumble, or something in between. All I know is that road Joe inexplicably showed up at M&T today, and I hope I don't see that again. Must be karma for the last couple of acceptably passable road games...

Short of the Ravens winning the Super Bowl this year, the solution is something in the middle. The Ravens have to fire Cam, and franchise Flacco. They must see if the problem is with Flacco or with Cam. It would have been preferable to do it this year, but I can also see how that would have been tough to justify considering how the AFC Championship game ended last year. It has to be done now though. The Ravens cannot and should not grossly overpay Flacco just because they think they are desperate to keep him. IMO, Flacco is an above average QB, but is in no way deserving of a $100+ million contract based on what he has shown up to this point. Statistically speaking, he is in the 14-20 best QB range. I can see paying him like a Top 10 QB based on need and potential, but not more than that. If Flacco improves significantly with a new OC, then go ahead and sign him to the big long-term deal. However, if Flacco doesn't improve with a new OC, then the Ravens can franchise him again, and then look to trade him if he will not agree to a reasonable long-term contract.

**GOTA** · 12-03-2012, 10:36 AM

Why do I have a feeling that Joe is going to end up franchised and crushing our cap next season?

**Jsmoove** · 12-03-2012, 10:38 AM

Originally Posted by Dirt1

Short of the Ravens winning the Super Bowl this year, the solution is something in the middle. The Ravens have to fire Cam, and franchise Flacco. They must see if the problem is with Flacco or with Cam. It would have been preferable to do it this year, but I can also see how that would have been tough to justify considering how the AFC Championship game ended last year. It has to be done now though. The Ravens cannot and should not grossly overpay Flacco just because they think they are desperate to keep him. IMO, Flacco is an above average QB, but is in no way deserving of a $100+ million contract based on what he has shown up to this point. Statistically speaking, he is in the 14-20 best QB range. I can see paying him like a Top 10 QB based on need and potential, but not more than that. If Flacco improves significantly with a new OC, then go ahead and sign him to the big long-term deal. However, if Flacco doesn't improve with a new OC, then the Ravens can franchise him again, and then look to trade him if he will not agree to a reasonable long-term contract.

agree with this 100% I wouldn't throw flacco the barn just yet, fire cam's ass and see what flacco looks like for season under true, creative, young OC that runs a west coast spread offense, get better at C and LG then evaluate at the end of the season.

**Paintballguy** · 12-03-2012, 10:41 AM

Originally Posted by Jsmoove

agree with this 100% I wouldn't throw flacco the barn just yet, fire cam's ass and see what flacco looks like for season under true, creative, young OC that runs a west coast spread offense, get better at C and LG then evaluate at the end of the season.

Agreed. If he doesn't show improvement after that, then look at other options.

**Cj34** · 12-03-2012, 10:48 AM

One of the biggest issues I had with the Ravens bringing Cam back the last two years is not just my dislike for Cam's offense; it's because had they got rid of Cam earlier they could have evaluated Joe in a new system and found out whether Cam was the problem, Joe was the problem or they both were the problem. Now all three choices they have after this season have the potential to backfire.

Option 1 - Status quo. They bring back both Cam and Joe. - Yuck. Been there done that.

Option 2 - Let Cam go and bring in a new OC. Sign Joe to a new contract. - Hopefully this works out. I don't think it's JUST a Joe problem. It might be a Cam problem or a Cam & Joe problem but not strictly Joe. But, for the sake of argument, what if it is a Flacco problem? Then you've tied up money in Joe with a new contract before finding out the answer.

Option 3 - Let Cam go. Bring in a new OC. Either the deal doesn't get done and they franchise Joe or the front office purposely decides to franchise Joe to evaluate him under a new offense. - Then you can find out if Joe can be the answer in a new offense BUT you royally f*ck up the salary cap next year and this team has way to many holes to pay that much money to anything that's not a sure thing.

**wickedsolo** · 12-03-2012, 10:49 AM

Originally Posted by ballhawk

Too little too late. Thats exactly why they should have fired cameron two years ago. Now what do they do? Franchise Flacco next year and see how he does in another system? Or give him his contract and pray that he can improve in another system? What a mess.

That is a big issue.

They're going to be stuck because giving him the tag is going to be pretty expensive and really limit how they address other positions...but do you really want to invest that kind of squeege into a guy you've seen plateau?

I mean, realistically speaking, it is highly probable that Flacco's performance will improve with a better offensive scheme, but Ozzie and Bisciotti have really put themselves in a sticky situation.