The "Flacco Thread" (Merged from 5 threads)

[wickedsolo]

How has Hue Jackson?

How has Jim Zorn?

Maybe it's the student and not the teacher

You can't really compare Zorn or Jackson.

#1 - Jackson left to take a HC gig and that was Flacco's rookie year IIRC.

#2 - Zorn was scapegoated by Cam and Harbaugh because Cam felt that Flacco had "too many voices" in his ear.

They have made a lot of coaching changes that were mistakes, IMO.

Letting Billy Matsko go and going with Andy Moeller.
Firing Jim Zorn and making Cam the QB's coach only to bring in Jim Caldwell. That whole situation was just really dumb.

[Ravens27Girl]

How has Hue Jackson?

How has Jim Zorn?

Maybe it's the student and not the teacher

I'm not pointing fingers at Flacco or Caldwell. I'm just trying to figure out if the money to bring Caldwell in to coach Flacco was money well spent and we're seeing some improvement or has Flacco hit his ceiling and a QB coach isn't going to be an answer to getting any improvement.

[B-more Ravor]

Why do I have a feeling that Joe is going to end up franchised and crushing our cap next season?

Unfortunately, I'm starting to come around to the belief that that is the best thing for them to do. Yes, it's going to create some short term pain as far as next year's Cap goes, but for the long term, it gives them a year to see Joe without Cam and to see if Cam is Joe's problem, or if there is more to this that is on Joe. That would allow them to make that determination before having to commit to a long term deal, so that if Joe is truly more of the problem, it could save them from sinking their Cap for years to come by having an albatross of a contract.

[rharris1986]

Whey you have an idiot calling the plays, creating the schemes, and making the decisions about what personnel to put on the field for each play not even Houdini could get out of that box!

[Jsmoove]

Ravor, say we get a talented cordinator next season and flacco is lighting up the league like ryan this year, couldn't they sign him mid-season to a long term deal?

[Jsmoove]

That is a big issue.

They're going to be stuck because giving him the tag is going to be pretty expensive and really limit how they address other positions...but do you really want to invest that kind of squeege into a guy you've seen plateau?

I mean, realistically speaking, it is highly probable that Flacco's performance will improve with a better offensive scheme, but Ozzie and Bisciotti have really put themselves in a sticky situation.

in short they fucked up

[iggyman555]

joe needs to do lines of coke or pop some amphetamines before the game

[Ravenswintitle]

Aderall

[DeputyDawg]

I'm not a Flacco basher but I just don't see the progression or where we're seeing the benefit of Caldwell's coaching of Joe. Even at a fundamental level. I thought Flacco was better last year at least through my eye test (have not looked at stats). Thoughts? Has Caldwell truly helped Flacco or has Joe hit his ceiling?

I can answer that question in 3 words" not at all".
Joe has clearly not benefited from Caldy being here .that can be seen on the field anyway.
He tries to force plays when he don't need to, when you're in the lead, you don't have to make high risk throws, but he is.
I thought Caldy would make Joe better but clearly, it was all Peyton in Indy, had nothing at all to do with Caldy.
But the Defense is the bigger problem, Pees system, just ain't gonna cut it here in B'more, too soft and no pressure , not a formula we are built for.

[Paintballguy]

Ravor, say we get a talented cordinator next season and flacco is lighting up the league like ryan this year, couldn't they sign him mid-season to a long term deal?

I believe he would have to play the full season under the franchise tag.

[Paintballguy]

Whey you have an idiot calling the plays, creating the schemes, and making the decisions about what personnel to put on the field for each play not even Houdini could get out of that box!

I'm firmly in the fire Cam camp. Cam is just a joke. It's not fair to hammer Flacco for playing in this 1960's offense.

[DeputyDawg]

I'm firmly in the fire Cam camp. Cam is just a joke. It's not fair to hammer Flacco for playing in this 1960's offense.

They'll just move Caldy up to OC ,most likely and we'll be in a worse position than now.
If they are gonna bring someone better in here, than great, but Harbs is a family man and that probably won't happen.
Someone who knew his Uncle Bob in the 3rd grade or Caldy, take your pic.

[bmorecareful]

Where did you read me say that we should have two franchise QBS? I said “a very few other teams" have an experienced backup. Did you hear about the game today? The Steelers had to play their second "experienced backup" because their first "experienced backup" was out. And here's a news flash for you: their 3rd string experienced backup beat us. Now for extra credit, here is a pop quiz: who is our third string QB? How many starts has he had? Too tough for you? How many pro starts has our 2nd string QB had? Beginning to see a thread of meaning here?

Cute response, but you're moving the goalposts. Experienced backups are there so they can give you a shot at winning a game or two in the event your QB sprains his throwing arm. That's why the Steelers played Charlie Batch. But that's not what you're talking about. You're talking about having a fallback option in the context of negotiating a new contract for Flacco, and that's silly.

Here's a news flash for you: Charlie Batch was on the Steelers roster in March 2008, but he was totally, completely, utterly irrelevant to the question of whether or not the Steelers were going to re-sign Ben Roethlisberger. They did, at 8 years/102m, and there was never any question that they wouldn't. That's because Roethlisberger is a franchise QB, and even if Flacco has been uneven over his career, so is he.

The implication you and others are making is that if the Ravens had an "experienced backup" or "young developmental QB" on the roster, then they would have more leverage in negotiating a contract with Flacco. But that's not true, because there is NO POSSIBILITY that the Ravens would let Flacco walk unless they had somebody DAMN close on the bench, and they don't.

"But why didn't they draft one in the later rounds of the draft!" you cry. Have a look at this:

http://www.pro-football-reference.co...e=any&show=all

29 "developmental" QBs drafted in the 3rd round and later since 2009. This includes such luminaries as Dan LeFevour, Nate Davis, and Colt McCoy... oh wait, 2 of those 3 are out of the league and the other one is firmly plastered to the bench in favor of a 29 year old rookie. Yeah, having those guys to wave in Flacco's face would sure make a strong negotiating chip.

And this is all ignoring the fact that the marginal value between a "decent QB we can live with" and "good QB who's going to cost a pretty penny" is HUGE, vastly moreso than any other position in football. Take the Patriots between 07 and 08... Tom Brady orchestrated a 16-0 Super Bowl team, and the next year Matt Cassel (with the same team around him) could only get to 11-5, missing the playoffs.

So how do you feel about dumping Flacco, trading for/signing whoever the unproven flavor of the weak is (say, Ryan Mallet) and seeing where the chips fall? I'll leave that to you to decide.

[RavensQB]

Whey you have an idiot calling the plays, creating the schemes, and making the decisions about what personnel to put on the field for each play not even Houdini could get out of that box!

Haha that is a great line...

The video explains how the offensive players must feel....

[B-more Ravor]

Ravor, say we get a talented cordinator next season and flacco is lighting up the league like ryan this year, couldn't they sign him mid-season to a long term deal?

No, with the Tag, he must be re-signed by July 15th or he must play the year under the franchise tag. Once the season is over, he could then sign an extension.

[bmorecareful]

Let me add one caveat to my post above: I don't 100% condone what the Ravens have done with the Flacco situation, nor do I think the right course of action is just to cave and give in to whatever he demands. But just because a team is in a less than ideal negotiating situation doesn't mean a deal isn't possible. The Colts and Patriots both successfully negotiated new contracts for Manning and Brady in years past, with the understanding of all parties that there was NO WAY either team was going to let their future HOFer walk. And the Colts did that despite making Manning play out his full contract AND tagging him for a year as well.

If the only way teams could negotiate new deals is if they were ready at the drop of a hat to break off negotiations and let a critical player walk, no deals would ever get done in this league. And even if they DON'T re-sign Flacco (99% impossible), I'm not arguing that they are just going to fold up the franchise. They will just have to undergo the difficult process of finding a new franchise QB, likely through the draft.

[Jsmoove]

SOLO pretty much hit it on the head with how they handled this cam flacco situation..they fucked up

[The Excellector]

I've seen Tom Brady get chewed out by his offensive coordinator, and Brady doesn't even call his own plays. He gets his plays from the sideline. He admitted as much. His plays are just better to work with in his system.

[Ravens27Girl]

I'm firmly in the fire Cam camp. Cam is just a joke. It's not fair to hammer Flacco for playing in this 1960's offense.

I'm all for dumping Cam, no question. Even if Cam were gone though, how does that improve Flacco's technique? Would it instill more confidence perhaps? I dunno...the only way I suppose we'll know is to have Flacco play one year under a different OC. Flacco is certainly stifled under Cam but Cam is not the entire problem.

[RavensQB]

I'm all for dumping Cam, no question. Even if Cam were gone though, how does that improve Flacco's technique? Would it instill more confidence perhaps? I dunno...the only way I suppose we'll know is to have Flacco play one year under a different OC. Flacco is certainly stifled under Cam but Cam is not the entire problem.

I can tell ya this much. When CAM is gone... The players will say things about what was going on. Players that have left here have said things.