The "Flacco Thread" (Merged from 5 threads)

[Jsmoove]

I'm all for dumping Cam, no question. Even if Cam were gone though, how does that improve Flacco's technique? Would it instill more confidence perhaps? I dunno...the only way I suppose we'll know is to have Flacco play one year under a different OC. Flacco is certainly stifled under Cam but Cam is not the entire problem.

flacco has pretty sound technique, this Oline paired with cam's scheme is not putting flacco in a position to succeed and take it to the next level, like preached for the last 3 years while cam was good in joe's progression as rookie and young QB he doesn't posses the necessary skills to take flacco to the next step

[wickedsolo]

I've seen Tom Brady get chewed out by his offensive coordinator, and Brady doesn't even call his own plays. He gets his plays from the sideline. He admitted as much. His plays are just better to work with in his system.

The Patriots' offense is a prime example of getting the ball to your best play makers in space. It's not a fluke that Gronkowski and Hernandez are ALWAYS open for fade passes in the corner of the end zone. That shit is by design.

How often to we see Brady chucking it 50 yards down field? Hardly ever. He doesn't have to. The last time I've seen Brady really throw a lot of deep balls was when they had Randy Moss. Even then, Welker was their primary target and he hardly ever ran routes that were longer than 10-12 yards.

[JustaslowZ06]

Yeah I'm kinda in the tag him, the tag for a QB is what 14.5M next year? Lets see what he can do under a different coordinator and go from there.

All in all it could be a LOT worse. Look at Sanchez and the Jets. I really think he's worse than Boller. Really when you're only rattling of a handfull of names better than Joe thats alot better than what some teams are dealing with.

[The Excellector]

I'm sorry, there's just no way around it. I used to brush off the idea from some fans that Joe doesn't use his legs enough, but it's clear now that it has been a legitimate gripe.

There comes a time in every QB's career where he has to find a way to make it happen when everything around him is going to pieces. We've seen Aaron Rodgers operate with some banged up offensive lines. We've seen Eli Manning work behind some bad offensive lines the past couple of years.

The offensive line is full of young potential, with an aged C in the middle, I think we all agree. The reality is that it just isn't there yet. The WRs are all being blanketed on the outside. Boldin seems unable to barely separate at all, no matter where you put him on the field. Jones plays very small for a 6' 2" WR and Torrey is still young. Cam Cameron seems oblivious to the middle of the field.

When the play breaks down, Joe is going to have to use his legs more to tighten up the defense and loosen things up for the offense.

After he's gone through two or three reads, with his legs, he just needs to get out and get some yardage. His long strides run off two or three yards at a time.

There's just no way around it. Joe is going to have to carry this team and he's going to have to be the spark for this offense. It's going to have to start with him using his legs. Nothing else is going to change between now and the end of the season. Joe is going to have to do this or they won't make the Super Bowl.

[Jsmoove]

I'm sorry, there's just no way around it. I used to brush off the idea from some fans that Joe doesn't use his legs enough, but it's clear now that it has been a legitimate gripe.

There comes a time in every QB's career where he has to find a way to make it happen when everything around him is going to pieces. We've seen Aaron Rodgers operate with some banged up offensive lines. We've seen Eli Manning work behind some bad offensive lines the past couple of years.

The offensive line is full of young potential, with an aged C in the middle, I think we all agree. The reality is that it just isn't there yet. The WRs are all being blanketed on the outside. Boldin seems unable to barely separate at all, no matter where you put him on the field. Jones plays very small for a 6' 2" WR and Torrey is still young. Cam Cameron seems oblivious to the middle of the field.

When the play breaks down, Joe is going to have to use his legs more to tighten up the defense and loosen things up for the offense.

After he's gone through two or three reads, with his legs, he just needs to get out and get some yardage. His long strides run off two or three yards at a time.

There's just no way around it. Joe is going to have to carry this team and he's going to have to be the spark for this offense. It's going to have to start with him using his legs. Nothing else is going to change between now and the end of the season. Joe is going to have to do this or they won't make the Super Bowl.

that one pass where he had smith in the middle of field while he was on the run, if he had tuck the ball and run he would have had it, Joe is going to have start doing that a lot more I know he aint no A-ROD but if its open take that shit.

[Cj34]

I agree. The sad part is that Joe did this very well in his rookie season. I still remember one game against the Bengals he scampered for 40 yds (not 100% sure on the distance) and a TD. He seems to have lost his mobility and his internal QB clock over the last few years. I know he's not the most mobile guy but he's agile enough to scratch out a few first downs if need be or even just a little positive yardage instead of taking a sack or throwing a ball up for grabs.

[PerpetuallyBored74]

Flacco doesn't have the quickest feet; once he's on the move he can't immediately reset his feet to make an accurate throw. So if he's being pursued by a pass rusher, he either gets hit if he tries to reset his feet or he throws while on the run which he's not very good at doing--in part because he doesn't practice it that much, if at all.

What he needs are plays where he's supposed to leave the pocket--designed rollouts. But Cam or Harbs or whoever doesn't like them or something...I mean who knows anymore with this team?

They're approach is oftentimes inexplicable.
How do you explain the inexplicable?
Simple: You can't.

[NCRAVEN]

You mean cement feet? Not happening, he needs Tom Brady type protection...

[GOTA]

Pat Kirwin has been saying for years that if Joe would just run 2 Ben type runs a game it would completely change how often he gets blitzed. He also points to Joe's rookie season and says that he has talent to do it.

[Jsmoove]

thats the reason why a QB like A-ROD is do hard to game plan for he is your drop back guy but when rodgers deel the heat and there's nothing hes gone that one thingyou can't really game plan for, flacco knows this system cam has is fucked up add another dimension to your game run with that shit if aint there, teams are going to have to honor that shit if they see it happen more often.

[Boulderraven]

I agree, been saying for years. Roll the pocket more as well. Then if play isnt thier just throw it away. It's a no brainer.

[Haloti92]

Definitely a few plays yesterday where Joe should have run, even if only for a few yards and OB, or a few yards and then sliding. Even Peyton Manning will waddle OB for 5-10 yard gains when handed the yardage (vs. waiting to get sacked or throwing it away).

[Jsmoove]

The Patriots' offense is a prime example of getting the ball to your best play makers in space. It's not a fluke that Gronkowski and Hernandez are ALWAYS open for fade passes in the corner of the end zone. That shit is by design.

How often to we see Brady chucking it 50 yards down field? Hardly ever. He doesn't have to. The last time I've seen Brady really throw a lot of deep balls was when they had Randy Moss. Even then, Welker was their primary target and he hardly ever ran routes that were longer than 10-12 yards.

thats what the fuck i'm saying, how is it those guys are always..ALWAYS open? welker, eldeman, gronk, hernandez, woodhead? the pats move the ball effortlessly, brady could be having a bad game, then coaching staff makes an adjustment or two right there and its lights out. that shit kills me

[Paintballguy]

I'm all for dumping Cam, no question. Even if Cam were gone though, how does that improve Flacco's technique? Would it instill more confidence perhaps? I dunno...the only way I suppose we'll know is to have Flacco play one year under a different OC. Flacco is certainly stifled under Cam but Cam is not the entire problem.

You said it best. We need to see what happens in order to accurately judge Flacco.

[GOTA]

Unfortunately, I'm starting to come around to the belief that that is the best thing for them to do. Yes, it's going to create some short term pain as far as next year's Cap goes, but for the long term, it gives them a year to see Joe without Cam and to see if Cam is Joe's problem, or if there is more to this that is on Joe. That would allow them to make that determination before having to commit to a long term deal, so that if Joe is truly more of the problem, it could save them from sinking their Cap for years to come by having an albatross of a contract.

If that's the case they have to draft a QB pretty high next year. Unless they feel that Taylor is the future of this team they need to get some more options. The Patriots and Eagles might be the examples to follow. Get a QB in round 2 or 3 even if you don't expect him to compete for a job.

[mrfactoid]

Joe thinks he is elite thats the first problem. I think Joe doesn't listen very well either to others critique and feels he is so good he doesn't have. He has the same flaws he had 5 years ago only less accurate. If I was HC he would throw 20 out patterns to Q, 20 out patterns to JJ throw 20 seam routes to Pitta and 20 slants to Tory. Then he can take lunch then come back and do it again in the afternoon every tue, wed, thurs, and Fri. until the season ends. I would also use the practice squad to create a pocket and force him to step into his throw instead of standing like a statue. That may also get some movement where can take off and get some yards with his feet. The sitting back and throwing off his back foot is a bad habit and makes him less mobile and less accurate. With this said I think Joe is gonna do what he wants because he thinks he's great. Like I said take away his arm and there aren't many intangibles for an elite QB. Cam isn't helping with the play calls but isn't he suppose to be able to audible to another play? Guess he hasn't progressed enough to that after being a starter for 5 years. Whatever

[RavensQB]

And this could not have gone in one of the other threads with the NAME JOE on it?

[mrfactoid]

Move it then.

[Carey]

I dont wanna let Joe completely off the hook because lately he's made mistakes, bonehead throws, inconsistent footwork, etc.

Some of his throws has been inexusable but if you look at some of his forced throws it's in situations where everyone is blanketed. Im sorry but i refuse to believe that throughout Cam's tenure whoever we put at WR cant separate from coverage. Honestly i've seen plenty of instances where he's tried to squeeze a ball in and give a guy a chance because if not it's a sack.

I've seen argument about Joe checking out of a bad play, this argument is valid to an extent. I think he's done a solid job recognizing things pre snap and checking out of plays, those plays when i've noticed have gone for minimal to modest gains but could have lead to yards loss or turnovers. Unless he's changing multiple routes and sending guys in motion when he audibles it would seem to me like he's checking out of one bad cam play to another bad cam play.

Factor in the offensive line as well. My biggest problem has been his inability to step into throws, i think when you have the arm he does and you get use to not be able to step into throws your footwork gets sloppy and you start thinking you can do that routinely. It's fools gold, this difference in accuracy in those throws can be significant at times.

I get that it's frustrating to see this type of offensive output and people wanna look outside the box for blame but that resides first and foremost with the offensive system. It often lacks versatility, purpose and creativity. Im not sure how thoroughly Joe can be assessed anymore in this system. We get into smaller arguments about Ray Rice touching the ball, lack of agression, etc. but the bigger issue is the system as a whole is just too flawed. Good offenses have the versatility to beat you multiple ways and adjust in game to what a defense is trying to do.

All in all i think Flacco can be the QB the Ravens need him to be but a new offensive system is necessary, if not you'll see him do well against lesser defenses or defenses we can run on and have performances like he's had the last few when we play better defenses.

[elland]

Yeah I'm kinda in the tag him, the tag for a QB is what 14.5M next year? Lets see what he can do under a different coordinator and go from there.

All in all it could be a LOT worse. Look at Sanchez and the Jets. I really think he's worse than Boller. Really when you're only rattling of a handfull of names better than Joe thats alot better than what some teams are dealing with.

- And maybe Joe is not sold on that option.
- And maybe this new OC will get a worse result.
- And maybe Joe will get his first serious injury.

First of all if we do franshise him he will likely get paid else where. There is always an owner who is more crazy.. Jerry Jones?

I believe in Ozzie.