The "Flacco Thread" (Merged from 5 threads)

**bacchys** · 12-06-2012, 02:59 PM

Quarterbacks throw picks all over the field. On outside routes, the ball travels longer in the air to get the same distance downfield, giving the defense a better chance to undercut the receiver and intercept. Flacco is better at these throws than quite a few other quarterbacks because of how strong his arm is.

There's no perfect route. We don't attack the middle of the field enough, and that's why LeBeau and now everyone else feels secure in sending the safeties down to undercut the out routes. The Ravens need to attack the middle more to keep the safeties honest, and run more out-and-ups when the safeties want to cheat down. Granted, for the latter to work the o-line needs to keep Flacco standing up.

**wickedsolo** · 12-06-2012, 03:02 PM

There is no perfect route, but there are combinations of routes that provide a higher probability of getting one or more players open.

Receivers are some of the best athletes in the league. Why the Ravens aren't interested in getting them the ball in open space to allow their athleticism to take over while they pick up YAC is beyond me.

Torrey Smith runs a few crossing/drag routes against San Diego...takes the first one 54 yards...wow. Imagine that? One of the fastest guys in the league getting a pass in stride, in space, and taking it an extra 50 yards.

**bacchys** · 12-06-2012, 03:04 PM

Originally Posted by wickedsolo

I can understand a drop here and there, but man...this offense goes through droughts of drops and there have been drops that have ended games or severely impacted games for us.

Yeah. There are drops and then there are drops. Just like some INT's are worse than others. A deep bomb on 3rd down from your own 40 that gets picked off on the opponent's 20 and the DB gets dropped short of the 25 isn't bad. Throwing a pick in the red zone is.

Boldin has dropped some critical passes lately, and he's not the only one. Doss dropped a catchable ball against Pitt that would have been a first down, IIRC. Jones and Smith both had drops on critical plays. Part of it I blame on the playcalling: we're not seeing the offense develop a rhythm. We're either seeing out routes, curls, or 9's down the sideline. Rarely are we seeing short crossing routes, slants, or posts into the holes in the defense. Either no one ever plays zone against the Ravens, or the Ravens just suck at finding the gaps in zones that every other team in the NFL seems to manage to find.

**bacchys** · 12-06-2012, 03:05 PM

Originally Posted by wickedsolo

There is no perfect route, but there are combinations of routes that provide a higher probability of getting one or more players open.

Receivers are some of the best athletes in the league. Why the Ravens aren't interested in getting them the ball in open space to allow their athleticism to take over while they pick up YAC is beyond me.

Torrey Smith runs a few crossing/drag routes against San Diego...takes the first one 54 yards...wow. Imagine that? One of the fastest guys in the league getting a pass in stride, in space, and taking it an extra 50 yards.

We're in agreement. It's like Cavanaugh is back. "That worked great! So we can NEVER do it again!" Or maybe it's the Curse of Marchibroda, since he seemed to like to outthink himself. "If a play worked, then the defense is expecting it! So I can't do it, because they're expecting it!"

**BigPlayReceiver** · 12-06-2012, 03:54 PM

Originally Posted by wickedsolo

Torrey Smith runs a few crossing/drag routes against San Diego...takes the first one 54 yards...wow. Imagine that? One of the fastest guys in the league getting a pass in stride, in space, and taking it an extra 50 yards.

Clicked over to NFLN last night and saw the IND/DET recast.

1st snap I saw, IND's OL (how many pro bowlers do they have?) picked up an overload blitz and Luck threw a 15 deep slant to YA Hilton (a rookie I really wanted here) who got 45 YAC out of it.
Two plays later...a quick slant went to Avery (pretty sure he's no pro bowler) for the score.

So frustrating....

**Jsmoove** · 12-06-2012, 03:56 PM

Originally Posted by BigPlayReceiver

Clicked over to NFLN last night and saw the IND/DET recast.

1st snap I saw, IND's OL (how many pro bowlers do they have?) picked up an overload blitz and Luck threw a 15 deep slant to YA Hilton (a rookie I really wanted here) who got 45 YAC out of it.
Two plays later...a quick slant went to Avery (pretty sure he's no pro bowler) for the score.

So frustrating....

Arians offense west coast hybrid.

**Sua Sponte** · 12-06-2012, 03:59 PM

The Baltimore Ravens' offense should be better -- I think this every season, and it comes back to coaching. It's surprising Cameron has stayed there so long.
By Gregg Rosenthal

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap100...nator-rankings

It's Flacco man. He has under achieved in this prolific Offense with a genius OC.

**JMUpurkfool** · 12-06-2012, 04:40 PM

Originally Posted by TTRaven

Torrey didn't almost allow 2 interceptions. They were horribly underthrown balls by Flacco. You can't expect your receiver to run full speed, stop, comeback to the ball, and locate it when he's running a post route.

Torrey was beating his man all day. Joe just couldn't get the ball to him.

You don't realize how hard it is to perfectly place a pass 50 to 60 yards in the air. On the post routes Torrey is always trying to let the ball drop in as he runs. Sometimes he needs to out jump the DB.

Until he does this he won't be the complete weapon that he has the potential to become.

**Sua Sponte** · 12-06-2012, 05:03 PM

Not just that he seems to run his man into the ball with him instead of keeping it outside and then drifting into the ball the last second. Not saying Joe was throwing good passes, but a lot of those deep passes is a heave to a spot on the field. If Torrey keeps the route wide and drifts in at the last minute he runs right under the ball with the DB in trail off his hip (laterally) instead of in trail directly over his shoulder (horizontally). A lot of deep throws are about how the WR sets up the DB and how he drifts at the right time. Joe could have lead him across the field better and Torrey could have kept the route wide until the ball was closing and drifted under it. He is still young he will learn how to manipulate the DB's (hopefully; because it seems to be an issue all around with the Offensive coaches, I have not been impressed with the WR coach either) He should not be trying to Willie Mays catch ever deep ball.

**TTRaven** · 12-06-2012, 05:27 PM

Originally Posted by JMUpurkfool

You don't realize how hard it is to perfectly place a pass 50 to 60 yards in the air. On the post routes Torrey is always trying to let the ball drop in as he runs. Sometimes he needs to out jump the DB.

Until he does this he won't be the complete weapon that he has the potential to become.

I understand that it's difficult to throw a perfectly placed pass 50-60 yards down the field. Still the QB has to give his receiver a chance. An elite/very good QB gives his receivers a chance when they have their man beat. They don't miss multiple times in a game.

**JMUpurkfool** · 12-06-2012, 10:57 PM

Originally Posted by TTRaven

I understand that it's difficult to throw a perfectly placed pass 50-60 yards down the field. Still the QB has to give his receiver a chance. An elite/very good QB gives his receivers a chance when they have their man beat. They don't miss multiple times in a game.

He was far from precise but he was accurate enough to give Torrey a chance.

Tom Brady rarely takes shots downfield. Drew Brees throws down the field a good amount and he misses on occasion.

When you throw downfield as much as we did on Sunday you are bound to miss. If he completed every ball he would have thrown for like 500 yards on 30 attempts.

I think it's realistic to expect more from Joe than we saw on Sunday but I also think it's realistic to ask more of an up and coming receiver.

**TTRaven** · 12-06-2012, 11:47 PM

Originally Posted by JMUpurkfool

He was far from precise but he was accurate enough to give Torrey a chance.

Tom Brady rarely takes shots downfield. Drew Brees throws down the field a good amount and he misses on occasion.

When you throw downfield as much as we did on Sunday you are bound to miss. If he completed every ball he would have thrown for like 500 yards on 30 attempts.

I think it's realistic to expect more from Joe than we saw on Sunday but I also think it's realistic to ask more of an up and coming receiver.

Under throwing/over throwing passes by 5+ yards is not accurate enough to give the receiver a real chance IMO.

Obviously Joe isn't the only issue on offense. The O-line and receivers also need to do a better job. I think all 3 would benefit from a more modern offense. Hopefully we'll see that next season.

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**Complex** · 12-07-2012, 07:15 AM

I think I might have said this in another thread. I think Flacco does a collection of more things than any other QB well. The problem is, none of those are "signature" skills. For example, P. Manning is known for directing the offense, Brees and Rogers are known for slinging the ball with uncanny accuracy and putting up big points, E. Manning is known for being clutch, Ben R. is known for keeping the play going, etc.

It seems Flacco has good accuracy, an ability to throw the deep ball, the ability to make some big plays, he can scramble and throw as needed, etc., but none of those are his strong point. In a way, I think that is good. He is hard to plan for. And the problem is, as many here have stated I do believe, the team needs to build around him. Give him protection, provide quality receivers, and a potent running back for option plays, drop downs, etc. which we saw two weeks ago. That is what needs to happen. As long as Flacco has a decent game, the team will win if they hold up their end of the deal. That is my take anyway.

**ActualSpamBot** · 12-07-2012, 07:28 AM

The Steeler fan chimes in and gives the most accurate, drama free, and unbiased post in the whole multiple page thread. What is this fandom coming to when we need Steeler fans to remind us of what we have?

**wickedsolo** · 12-07-2012, 08:20 AM

Originally Posted by Sua Sponte

The Baltimore Ravens' offense should be better -- I think this every season, and it comes back to coaching. It's surprising Cameron has stayed there so long.
By Gregg Rosenthal

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap100...nator-rankings

It's Flacco man. He has under achieved in this prolific Offense with a genius OC.

Great article.

**Paintballguy** · 12-07-2012, 08:26 AM

Originally Posted by wickedsolo

Great article.

Frustrating seeing Bruce Arians on the top of that list. I wanted to see him as the OC here when he got fired from Pitt.

**leachisabeast** · 12-07-2012, 08:26 AM

Gregg Rosenthal is still a really biased Steelers fan though, or at least that's how he comes across as with some of the other topics he's posted before.

**wickedsolo** · 12-07-2012, 08:33 AM

Originally Posted by Paintballguy

Frustrating seeing Bruce Arians on the top of that list. I wanted to see him as the OC here when he got fired from Pitt.

Me too.

I think the Ravens really screwed up by not bringing in Bruce Arians.

The guy has produced some solid offenses with a crap OL and mediocre running backs. Look what he's doing with a rookie QB and mediocre backs in Indianapolis. Furthermore, he'd have been able to give the Ravens some MAJOR insight into Dick LeBeau's defensive schemes and preparations.

**RavensNTerps** · 12-07-2012, 08:47 AM

Originally Posted by wickedsolo

Me too.

I think the Ravens really screwed up by not bringing in Bruce Arians.

The guy has produced some solid offenses with a crap OL and mediocre running backs. Look what he's doing with a rookie QB and mediocre backs in Indianapolis. Furthermore, he'd have been able to give the Ravens some MAJOR insight into Dick LeBeau's defensive schemes and preparations.

That rookie QB was the first overall pick for good reason. And Ben Roethlisberger is clearly a far better signal caller than Joe Flacco.

**NCRAVEN** · 12-07-2012, 08:53 AM

Originally Posted by TTRaven

Under throwing/over throwing passes by 5+ yards is not accurate enough to give the receiver a real chance IMO.

To me it's not the over throw or under throws that's the problem, it's how or where there over throw. A lot of Flacco's deep balls have to much hang time, or he throws them up the field when he should throw it further across the field.

But knocking him for throwing off 5 yards on a 40 -55 yard throw is kinda nitpicking. I mean that's only off by 12 to 9% of the distance he's throwing, and that's IF he's off by 5 yards every time.