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  1. #133
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    Re: Why Joe's the problem



    birk spend most of his time on his back or in thebackfield, the middle of the Oline has been bad all season long, I don't see any recievers getting separation downfield teams have keyed in on play calling they know the routes just watch the road games, and now they figured it out at home.




  2. #134
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    Re: What is Joe worth?

    Quote Originally Posted by redmike34 View Post
    I like this line of thought.

    It really amazes me what Jim Harbaugh has accomplished with that team. He took what everybody thought was a first round bust and turned him into a dependable and serviceable, if somewhat limited, QB. I'd take that system here in a heartbeat.

    With Flacco... if the Ravens keep Cam, is there anyone who thinks we'll ever get much better than what we've gotten? If they get rid of Cam, are we SURE Flacco will be better? Sure enough to spend a sizable percentage of the cap on it?

    Let's see how the season ends up. This team may have had a fire lit under it today, or it may crumble, or something in between. All I know is that road Joe inexplicably showed up at M&T today, and I hope I don't see that again. Must be karma for the last couple of acceptably passable road games...
    Short of the Ravens winning the Super Bowl this year, the solution is something in the middle. The Ravens have to fire Cam, and franchise Flacco. They must see if the problem is with Flacco or with Cam. It would have been preferable to do it this year, but I can also see how that would have been tough to justify considering how the AFC Championship game ended last year. It has to be done now though. The Ravens cannot and should not grossly overpay Flacco just because they think they are desperate to keep him. IMO, Flacco is an above average QB, but is in no way deserving of a $100+ million contract based on what he has shown up to this point. Statistically speaking, he is in the 14-20 best QB range. I can see paying him like a Top 10 QB based on need and potential, but not more than that. If Flacco improves significantly with a new OC, then go ahead and sign him to the big long-term deal. However, if Flacco doesn't improve with a new OC, then the Ravens can franchise him again, and then look to trade him if he will not agree to a reasonable long-term contract.




  3. #135
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    Re: What is Joe worth?

    Why do I have a feeling that Joe is going to end up franchised and crushing our cap next season?
    He Who Dares.....Wins




  4. #136
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    Re: What is Joe worth?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dirt1 View Post
    Short of the Ravens winning the Super Bowl this year, the solution is something in the middle. The Ravens have to fire Cam, and franchise Flacco. They must see if the problem is with Flacco or with Cam. It would have been preferable to do it this year, but I can also see how that would have been tough to justify considering how the AFC Championship game ended last year. It has to be done now though. The Ravens cannot and should not grossly overpay Flacco just because they think they are desperate to keep him. IMO, Flacco is an above average QB, but is in no way deserving of a $100+ million contract based on what he has shown up to this point. Statistically speaking, he is in the 14-20 best QB range. I can see paying him like a Top 10 QB based on need and potential, but not more than that. If Flacco improves significantly with a new OC, then go ahead and sign him to the big long-term deal. However, if Flacco doesn't improve with a new OC, then the Ravens can franchise him again, and then look to trade him if he will not agree to a reasonable long-term contract.
    agree with this 100% I wouldn't throw flacco the barn just yet, fire cam's ass and see what flacco looks like for season under true, creative, young OC that runs a west coast spread offense, get better at C and LG then evaluate at the end of the season.




  5. #137
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    Re: What is Joe worth?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jsmoove View Post
    agree with this 100% I wouldn't throw flacco the barn just yet, fire cam's ass and see what flacco looks like for season under true, creative, young OC that runs a west coast spread offense, get better at C and LG then evaluate at the end of the season.
    Agreed. If he doesn't show improvement after that, then look at other options.




  6. #138

    Re: What is Joe worth?

    One of the biggest issues I had with the Ravens bringing Cam back the last two years is not just my dislike for Cam's offense; it's because had they got rid of Cam earlier they could have evaluated Joe in a new system and found out whether Cam was the problem, Joe was the problem or they both were the problem. Now all three choices they have after this season have the potential to backfire.

    Option 1 - Status quo. They bring back both Cam and Joe. - Yuck. Been there done that.

    Option 2 - Let Cam go and bring in a new OC. Sign Joe to a new contract. - Hopefully this works out. I don't think it's JUST a Joe problem. It might be a Cam problem or a Cam & Joe problem but not strictly Joe. But, for the sake of argument, what if it is a Flacco problem? Then you've tied up money in Joe with a new contract before finding out the answer.

    Option 3 - Let Cam go. Bring in a new OC. Either the deal doesn't get done and they franchise Joe or the front office purposely decides to franchise Joe to evaluate him under a new offense. - Then you can find out if Joe can be the answer in a new offense BUT you royally f*ck up the salary cap next year and this team has way to many holes to pay that much money to anything that's not a sure thing.
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  7. #139
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    Re: Why Joe's the problem

    Quote Originally Posted by ballhawk View Post
    Too little too late. Thats exactly why they should have fired cameron two years ago. Now what do they do? Franchise Flacco next year and see how he does in another system? Or give him his contract and pray that he can improve in another system? What a mess.
    That is a big issue.

    They're going to be stuck because giving him the tag is going to be pretty expensive and really limit how they address other positions...but do you really want to invest that kind of squeege into a guy you've seen plateau?

    I mean, realistically speaking, it is highly probable that Flacco's performance will improve with a better offensive scheme, but Ozzie and Bisciotti have really put themselves in a sticky situation.
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  8. #140

    Re: How has Caldwell benefited Flacco?

    How has Hue Jackson?

    How has Jim Zorn?

    Maybe it's the student and not the teacher




  9. #141
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    Re: How has Caldwell benefited Flacco?

    Quote Originally Posted by RavingMad View Post
    How has Hue Jackson?

    How has Jim Zorn?

    Maybe it's the student and not the teacher
    You can't really compare Zorn or Jackson.

    #1 - Jackson left to take a HC gig and that was Flacco's rookie year IIRC.

    #2 - Zorn was scapegoated by Cam and Harbaugh because Cam felt that Flacco had "too many voices" in his ear.

    They have made a lot of coaching changes that were mistakes, IMO.

    Letting Billy Matsko go and going with Andy Moeller.
    Firing Jim Zorn and making Cam the QB's coach only to bring in Jim Caldwell. That whole situation was just really dumb.
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  10. #142
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    Re: How has Caldwell benefited Flacco?

    Quote Originally Posted by RavingMad View Post
    How has Hue Jackson?

    How has Jim Zorn?

    Maybe it's the student and not the teacher
    I'm not pointing fingers at Flacco or Caldwell. I'm just trying to figure out if the money to bring Caldwell in to coach Flacco was money well spent and we're seeing some improvement or has Flacco hit his ceiling and a QB coach isn't going to be an answer to getting any improvement.




  11. #143

    Re: What is Joe worth?

    Quote Originally Posted by GOTA View Post
    Why do I have a feeling that Joe is going to end up franchised and crushing our cap next season?
    Unfortunately, I'm starting to come around to the belief that that is the best thing for them to do. Yes, it's going to create some short term pain as far as next year's Cap goes, but for the long term, it gives them a year to see Joe without Cam and to see if Cam is Joe's problem, or if there is more to this that is on Joe. That would allow them to make that determination before having to commit to a long term deal, so that if Joe is truly more of the problem, it could save them from sinking their Cap for years to come by having an albatross of a contract.
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  12. #144

    Re: How has Caldwell benefited Flacco?

    Whey you have an idiot calling the plays, creating the schemes, and making the decisions about what personnel to put on the field for each play not even Houdini could get out of that box!




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