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  1. #25
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    Re: What is Joe worth?



    Quote Originally Posted by StingerNLG View Post
    There is no comparison to those two contracts though. Peyton got paid a ton, Joe won't get that.

    But the alternative is to let Joe walk and then what? Who is coming in here to keep the Ravens going to the playoffs? That's the other piece to this. If the Ravens let Joe walk, who QB's this team?

    Sent from my Xoom using Tapatalk 2
    Alex Smith might be available. Just sayin'...

    Q, ripping me a new one for my semi-serious semi joke in 3,2....
    We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid. - Benjamin Franklin




  2. #26

    Re: What is Joe worth?

    Quote Originally Posted by Corey View Post
    I am pretty sure I said that I didn't want to see him go. The point I am making is Joe's contract is damned if you do and if you don't. If you break the bank and pay him similar to Drew Brees, which I am sure his agent is aiming for, you don't have the money to put the talent around him that he needs to succeed. If you don't pay him your without a QB. Either way your not winning.
    This is the same dilemma that most franchises face when they draft a franchise QB who wins games. The Ravens have been very good about keeping their stars without putting them in cap hell, and I think they'll structure things favorably for themselves.




  3. #27

    Re: What is Joe worth?

    Quote Originally Posted by rharris1986 View Post
    What is a quarterback worth who has won 58 of his last 84 games - that's a 69% winning percentage. There is NO quarterback in the NFL who has won more games over the same period. If Joe were ever to hit the open market he would be snatched up in a heartbeat by any one of a number of QB deficient teams. Joe would be a Jet by the end of the first day of free agency!.
    So tired of hearing how Joe Flacco is responsible for the Ravens winning %
    The fact is that Joe has been consitently ranked in the 15-20 range (based on QB rating).
    He has been bad on the road, and bad in the majority of the Ravens playoff games.
    We can get to the playoffs with Joe, but I don't think he'll ever win the SB

    and the bottom line is that as he takes a bigger chunk of the salary cap the talent around him will decline... and I think the Ravens will have trouble maintaining their recent success.

    He (and the koolaid drinking fan base) needs to realize that he is not an elite QB, and if he negotiates an elite salary the Ravens will not be able to keep the talent around him that he needs to win




  4. #28
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    Re: What is Joe worth?

    Quote Originally Posted by webbrick2007 View Post
    So tired of hearing how Joe Flacco is responsible for the Ravens winning %
    The fact is that Joe has been consitently ranked in the 15-20 range (based on QB rating).
    He has been bad on the road, and bad in the majority of the Ravens playoff games.
    We can get to the playoffs with Joe, but I don't think he'll ever win the SB

    and the bottom line is that as he takes a bigger chunk of the salary cap the talent around him will decline... and I think the Ravens will have trouble maintaining their recent success.

    He (and the koolaid drinking fan base) needs to realize that he is not an elite QB, and if he negotiates an elite salary the Ravens will not be able to keep the talent around him that he needs to win
    I am not arguing Joe is an "elite" QB (whatever that means). But I am not sure how fair it is to knock him for road playoff games when 5 of his 9 playoff games were in his first in second year.
    We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid. - Benjamin Franklin




  5. #29

    Re: What is Joe worth?

    Big Ben won the superbowl in his second year
    Eli Manning won the suberbowl in his third year
    That's what Elite QB's do

    although I choke on giving a single player credit for a team accomplishment.

    Did Trent Dilfer win a Super Bowl?

    The point is there are very few QB's who can carry a team (Brady, Peyton, Ben, Rogers...)

    I don't think Flacco is going to carry you to a SB, so you better be able to afford premium talent (defensive) elsewhere to make the TEAM successful.




  6. #30
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    Re: What is Joe worth?

    Quote Originally Posted by webbrick2007 View Post
    Big Ben won the superbowl in his second year
    Eli Manning won the suberbowl in his third year
    That's what Elite QB's do

    although I choke on giving a single player credit for a team accomplishment.

    Did Trent Dilfer win a Super Bowl?

    The point is there are very few QB's who can carry a team (Brady, Peyton, Ben, Rogers...)

    I don't think Flacco is going to carry you to a SB, so you better be able to afford premium talent (defensive) elsewhere to make the TEAM successful.
    Really, this is what elite QB's do?

    2005 Superbowl B. Roethlisberger
    C/ATT YDS AVG TD INT
    9/21 123 5.9 0 2
    Now go away troll.
    We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid. - Benjamin Franklin




  7. #31

    Re: What is Joe worth?

    Quote Originally Posted by webbrick2007 View Post
    Big Ben won the superbowl in his second year
    Eli Manning won the suberbowl in his third year
    That's what Elite QB's do

    although I choke on giving a single player credit for a team accomplishment.

    Did Trent Dilfer win a Super Bowl?

    The point is there are very few QB's who can carry a team (Brady, Peyton, Ben, Rogers...)

    I don't think Flacco is going to carry you to a SB, so you better be able to afford premium talent (defensive) elsewhere to make the TEAM successful.
    You should have choked more. QB's don't win SB's. Teams do. The "elite" E. Manning needed a miracle ball-to-helmet catch from a bit player to win the first time. Brady and P. Manning rode their running games and defenses to SB victories, and the two years the Patriots relied on Brady to win they lost to E. Manning and the Giants. Both Giants victories stemmed more from the dominance of their defensive lines in those years than the offensive prowess of their QB- and in both E. Manning's biggest plays involve heroic catches.

    The opening salvo in the Ravens victory was a long touchdown pass from Dilfer to Stokely, something which never seems to get mentioned in recounts of that demolishment of the Giants by the Ravens.

    The closest I've ever seen a QB come to winning a SB was Elway in the '80s. Those Broncos teams weren't bad, but they wouldn't have sniffed the SB without Elway. The Bengals and Browns both were better teams in those years.

    The "elite" arguments are mostly garbage. Flacco's a good quarterback. He's not a great one. You don't need to be a great quarterback to win Super Bowls. Troy Aikman has three rings, and he wasn't great, imo. He was very good, however. Great players, and this includes QB's, make those around them better. P.Manning and Brady are both great. Roethlisberger is sort-of great: in certain situations he is. In others, not so much. He won his first SB handing the ball off to Bettis and Fast Willie. He's the best I've ever seen after getting hit by a defender. He's good otherwise. In situations where other QB's would be on the ground (including P.Manning and Brady), Roethlisberger is still able to make plays downfield.

    Flacco has some of that ability to shake off would-be sackers, but not close to Roethlisberger. He's more like Daunte Culpepper: he's big enough you need to get a solid hit or grab on him, but he lacks the lower body strength of Roethlisberger to just tear out of the grasp or absorb and bounce off of hard hits. He has a stronger, more accurate arm than Roethlisberger, however, and when both have time to survey the field I think Flacco is the better QB.




  8. #32

    Re: What is Joe worth?

    Quote Originally Posted by NCRAVEN View Post
    Really, this is what elite QB's do?



    Now go away troll.
    You make my point for me... Ben did not win the superbowl, anymore than Joe Flacco won the New England game that Ray Rice ran for 200 yards... or last week when Ray Rice turned a checkdown into a 30 yard game.

    It's a team game, if Joe Flacco gets a top 5 QB salary the team talent and record will decline, even Ben and Brady are struggling to get to the SB now that they consume a large % of theire teams cap.

    Just think the Ravens need to be very careful in how much money they give to Flacco. Sorry if my opinion doensn't align with your view of the world.




  9. #33
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    Re: What is Joe worth?

    Quote Originally Posted by webbrick2007 View Post
    You make my point for me... Ben did not win the superbowl, anymore than Joe Flacco won the New England game that Ray Rice ran for 200 yards... or last week when Ray Rice turned a checkdown into a 30 yard game.

    It's a team game, if Joe Flacco gets a top 5 QB salary the team talent and record will decline, even Ben and Brady are struggling to get to the SB now that they consume a large % of theire teams cap.

    Just think the Ravens need to be very careful in how much money they give to Flacco. Sorry if my opinion doensn't align with your view of the world.
    You had more than one point.

    First point was Flacco is not "elite" thus he won't carry us to a Super Bowl. And "elite" QB's win super bowls in their second year. In his second year, Big Jen was anything but, especially in the Super Bowl.
    We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid. - Benjamin Franklin




  10. #34

    Re: What is Joe worth?

    Quote Originally Posted by webbrick2007 View Post
    You make my point for me... Ben did not win the superbowl, anymore than Joe Flacco won the New England game that Ray Rice ran for 200 yards... or last week when Ray Rice turned a checkdown into a 30 yard game.

    It's a team game, if Joe Flacco gets a top 5 QB salary the team talent and record will decline, even Ben and Brady are struggling to get to the SB now that they consume a large % of theire teams cap.

    Just think the Ravens need to be very careful in how much money they give to Flacco. Sorry if my opinion doensn't align with your view of the world.
    Flacco contributed to the win in San Diego. The entire game wasn't just Rice running for 30 yards. He hit a number of big third downs before and after that play, and it wasn't his play that backed the Ravens up to 4th and 29.

    But I agree with your point: the Ravens can't afford to overpay Flacco, and he's not going to be a top 5 QB if his contract freezes out getting and keeping good players.




  11. #35

    Re: What is Joe worth?

    Quote Originally Posted by NCRAVEN View Post
    Alex Smith might be available. Just sayin'...

    Q, ripping me a new one for my semi-serious semi joke in 3,2....
    Kyle Boller is available too.




  12. #36

    Re: What is Joe worth?

    Quote Originally Posted by PerpetuallyBored74 View Post
    Replace Titans and Seahawks with Vikings and Jets, and you're right on the money.
    No way the Jets would give up on Mark Sanchez. If they won't bench him with all this going on, they aren't replacing him yet.

    The Vikings I thought about, but the Seahawks would change QB's before the Vikings.




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