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  1. #73
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    Re: What is Joe worth?



    Quote Originally Posted by StingerNLG View Post
    Here's the thing though. In the end, Ozzie and Bisciotti aren't going to care what his QB rating is, or how many TD passes he's thrown. That's not what he's going to get paid for.

    He is going to get paid based on the trend that since he was drafted he has won more games than any other QB in their first 5 years, and has been to more playoffs than any other QB in their first 5 years.

    He will get paid based not just on the fact he proved he can win at home, on the road, and on the road in the playoffs; but on the fact they know the Ravens can go to the playoffs consistently with him as the QB.

    He will get paid not based on his QB rating, but on the fact they can rely on him to make a 4th quarter comeback in a key situation when it's needed; as he has proven through his career he can do.

    He isn't going to get paid based on just knowing Lee Evans and Billy Cundiff cost him a trip to the SuperBowl last year, but on the fact they believe he will continue to get them in a position to get to the SuperBowl, including this year.

    So realistically, we can parse over stats and stuff like that all we want. The Ravens are going to pay Flacco by his wins and losses, and what they think he will continue to produce in that department for the next 6-8 years. And that's going to net him good money.
    Without a Super Bowl does any of that really matter? It's not like Flacco is the reason they've won most of those games. Mark Sanchez got to 2 AFC Championship games his 1st 2 years in the league but no one was saying that Sanchez had this great record and was even a good QB.

    If they really thought that Flacco was the main offensive driver of those wins would they have paid Ray Rice the big contract that they did? At best Flacco is a co-reason for those wins with Rice. His agent has pushed for the win argument but if Ozzie and Steve were buying it then Flacco would already have been signed.
    He Who Dares.....Wins




  2. #74
    It's going to be an interesting OS all around. Quite a few decisions to make around $$$.

    One item of note that will surely be a factor...the contract that Matt Ryan is going to get.
    Back to the AFCCG we go. So get ready!

    Having fun talking football on Twitter @BigPlayReceiver




  3. #75

    Re: What is Joe worth?

    Quote Originally Posted by GOTA View Post
    Without a Super Bowl does any of that really matter? It's not like Flacco is the reason they've won most of those games. Mark Sanchez got to 2 AFC Championship games his 1st 2 years in the league but no one was saying that Sanchez had this great record and was even a good QB.

    If they really thought that Flacco was the main offensive driver of those wins would they have paid Ray Rice the big contract that they did? At best Flacco is a co-reason for those wins with Rice. His agent has pushed for the win argument but if Ozzie and Steve were buying it then Flacco would already have been signed.
    That's irrelevant though when it comes to Ozzie. The Ravens have a history of big contracts and making players the "highest paid at their position". Ray's contract was up before Flacco's. Flacco is merely next in line. Despite people jumping off the Ostend St. bridge tonight, this team is still a perennial playoff team, and Joe Flacco is still a 5 playoff year QB. I would be shocked if he gets an "average QB" contract offer. I'll be even more shocked if he accepted one.

    But hey, then we can start all over. One poster here is hoping Ozzie goes and gets Alex Smith, because he's been lighting it up since he got into the league.




  4. #76

    Re: What is Joe worth?

    Quote Originally Posted by BigPlayReceiver View Post
    It's going to be an interesting OS all around. Quite a few decisions to make around $$$.

    One item of note that will surely be a factor...the contract that Matt Ryan is going to get.
    Matt Ryan has to do something he hasn't done yet, win a playoff game. Remember too he's had some klunker games this year as well including a 5 interception game. Matt Ryan's media "street cred" is all he still has right now.




  5. #77
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    Re: What is Joe worth?

    Quote Originally Posted by AmishlandRavenFan View Post
    Watching Drew Brees and Matt Ryan this evening has got me thinking (which is always dangerous):

    1) Is Joe a top 10 QB? top 15?
    2) If the answer to one of the questions above is "yes," does a franchise tag make any sense? (more of a rhetorical question)
    3) What do we do if we let him test the FA market, and someone is willing to pay him "above market?"
    Billick was talking about this earlier in the season and said you have your top QBs like the Mannings, Brees and Brady and then the next teir like Flacco, Ryan and Cutler.

    Casserly who was the Ozzie of the 90s and gave Gibbs all those players and then was GM who set up Houston said last night Joe has improved this year because he is getting rid of the ball quicker and is more accurate.

    But not tonight.
    Pic of a natural act: UBER RAVENS FAN AND HISTORIAN GURU. THE PAST IS NOT DEAD, IN FACT, IT IS NOT EVEN PAST.' WILLIAM FAULKNER.




  6. #78
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    Re: What is Joe worth?

    What's Joe worth? Probably a whole shitpot less than he was worth 12 hours ago...




  7. #79
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    Re: What is Joe worth?

    It's hard not to be reactionary after an inexcusable loss like today's. However, I will try. Flacco has had 5 years in this league, and he is still having games like today's. He has these games too frequently for an elite QB. Those QBs have them perhaps once or twice, tops, in a season. Brees just had one this week. Rodgers had one a few weeks ago. Brady had one against the Ravens in the AFCCG. It's not going to happen often with those guys. But it keeps happening with Flacco. Nice couple of games, then two clunkers. Repeat. He has talent at receiver and the best RB in the league, too. Unless the OC is a complete moron, it's on Flacco.




  8. #80

    Re: What is Joe worth?

    Quote Originally Posted by StingerNLG View Post
    Here's the thing though. In the end, Ozzie and Bisciotti aren't going to care what his QB rating is, or how many TD passes he's thrown. That's not what he's going to get paid for.

    He is going to get paid based on the trend that since he was drafted he has won more games than any other QB in their first 5 years, and has been to more playoffs than any other QB in their first 5 years.

    He will get paid based not just on the fact he proved he can win at home, on the road, and on the road in the playoffs; but on the fact they know the Ravens can go to the playoffs consistently with him as the QB.

    He will get paid not based on his QB rating, but on the fact they can rely on him to make a 4th quarter comeback in a key situation when it's needed; as he has proven through his career he can do.

    He isn't going to get paid based on just knowing Lee Evans and Billy Cundiff cost him a trip to the SuperBowl last year, but on the fact they believe he will continue to get them in a position to get to the SuperBowl, including this year.

    So realistically, we can parse over stats and stuff like that all we want. The Ravens are going to pay Flacco by his wins and losses, and what they think he will continue to produce in that department for the next 6-8 years. And that's going to net him good money.


    Joe has shown nothing to put him in the Manning, Brees, Brady class yet. More importantly though, he HAS shown beyond any doubt that he is a guy who can win talent around him. That proves he is no Kyle Boller, in fact he is a far superior QB then the endless stream of trash that blew through here till he was taken.

    At the end of the day, the odds state the Ravens are unlikely to do better either through FA or the draft (crapshoot) and sure as hell could do a lot worse. That = getting paid
    A linebacker's job is to knock out running backs, to knock out receivers, to chase the football,
    -Ray Lewis




  9. #81

    Re: What is Joe worth?

    There is a depressingly large amount of stupid people in this town who want to bench/cut/trade Flacco and take their chances with another rookie, some cast-off FA (Alex Smith seems to be the hot guy right now), or play Tyrod Taylor (seriously, visit any local Baltimore bar and you'll hear people calling for Tyrod after the first incompletion.)

    Even so, outside of those idiots, a lot of people are in various states of "unconvinced" by Flacco. That's fine, and I think EVERYONE who has half a brain can agree that the Ravens would not be ill-served to give Joe a year under a different OC. So no matter what happens, the Ravens MUST get rid of Cam Cameron and install a new OC and a new playbook even if it's still a Coryell variant.

    Franchise Flacco, give him a year under the new system, and see what the results are.




  10. #82

    Re: What is Joe worth?

    Quote Originally Posted by bmorecareful View Post
    There is a depressingly large amount of stupid people in this town who want to bench/cut/trade Flacco and take their chances with another rookie, some cast-off FA (Alex Smith seems to be the hot guy right now), or play Tyrod Taylor (seriously, visit any local Baltimore bar and you'll hear people calling for Tyrod after the first incompletion.)

    Even so, outside of those idiots, a lot of people are in various states of "unconvinced" by Flacco. That's fine, and I think EVERYONE who has half a brain can agree that the Ravens would not be ill-served to give Joe a year under a different OC. So no matter what happens, the Ravens MUST get rid of Cam Cameron and install a new OC and a new playbook even if it's still a Coryell variant.

    Franchise Flacco, give him a year under the new system, and see what the results are.
    Agree. Just wish we'd done that before we had to franchise him.




  11. #83

    Re: What is Joe worth?

    Joe is a good QB, but he will be overpaid as if he were a very good QB because the FO has left themselves with no choice.

    Unlike other teams (a very few other teams) we have no proven experienced backup, nor a young backup QB with the physical skills and college record to strongly suggest he could develop into a quality NFL QB. As a Ravens fan I'd like to think Tyrod could be a sold NFL QB, but even after a full bottle of Tormaresco Puglia (DAMN good red) I am not irrational enough to believe that. If we do not overpay Joe, where are we at QB?

    I hope I'm being overly pessimistic (I'll blame the wine) but it seems the FO failed to develop effective depth behind its key players -- Ray, Ed, Grubbs, Flacco. I'll admit we have Pierce behind Rice, but behind Ray -- UDFas; Ed --?; Grubbs -- Harewood? Jah?; Flacco -- Tyrod? Really?




  12. #84

    Re: What is Joe worth?

    I like Flacco and hope he stays a Raven. But it does seem kinda dumb that the Ravens have no fallback option in his walk year. If i were Flacco I would test the waters. The Ravens need him more than he needs them. He would get top five money with the franchise tag if the Ravens go that route. If not some desperate team that thinks they are only a decent QB away from competing might overspend for him.




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