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  1. #61

    Re: Football and Faith



    Quote Originally Posted by lobachevsky View Post
    Once again, darb72 decides he knows what my words mean & tries to shit on me for it. Maybe he should take a hint from something Artemus Ward (Lincoln's favorite humorist) wrote: “It ain't so much the things we don't know that get us in trouble. It's the things we know that ain't so.”

    I know he's a lost cause, but FTR, as JMUpurkfool pointed out very well above, there is a huuuuge difference between asserting one's faith in God & saying publicly that "it's a big part of who we are as a team."

    Anyone who thinks you can publicly go on record with a statement like that without putting enormous pressure on your players to conform with is, at best, someone who's never found him/herself among people who s/he wanted to bond with (or a boss whom s/he wanted or needed to please) but who believed or acted in ways s/he couldn't agree with.

    In fact, anyone with two brain cells to rub together might wonder if Harbaugh's intent in "going public" with this team-faith notion was to do precisely that--to crank up the pressure on any Raven who hasn't completely bought in.

    "As for treating your fellow man with common decency and respect, doesn't that include letting him form his own opinions being allowed to say them out loud?" IIRC that is guaranteed by the First Amendment, which reads in full: Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

    Let us note what the Constitution does not guarantee: The right to have what one says taken seriously, or allowed to pass without comment or challenge. Nor the right not to have one's intelligence & personal qualities judged & found wanting based on what one has said. (Here's a quote often attributed [probably wrongly] to Honest Abe: Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt.)

    As for praying at the 50-yard line or anywhere else in public, anyone who self-identifies as a Christian might just want to stop & consider what Jesus of Nazareth said about that sort of thing, as recounted in Matthew 6:5-6: And when you pray, you shall not be like the hypocrites. For they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the corners of the streets, that they may be seen by men. Assuredly, I say to you, they have their reward. But you, when you pray, go into your room, and when you have shut your door, pray to your Father who is in the secret place; and your Father who sees in secret will reward you openly.

    So many self-identified Christians seem to think more of the petty, rigid, brutal, vengeful acts of the deity depicted in the Old Testament than of what their Savior is reported to have said in the New. No wonder Gandhi said, I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.
    What a long, rambling diatribe that in no way countered my argument.

    You have said, more than once, that Harbaugh put pressure on people who don't believe what he does. You have no proof of this, nor that faith isn't a BIG PART OF the Ravens. You are attacking a man who has never done anything to you simply because his opinion is different than yours. You are a hypocrite of the highest order, one that doesn't even realize how hypocritical they're being.

    And I love the multiple quotes you've used your pointlessly meanderings. You went from Ward, to the Constitution, to the Bible, and then wrapped it up quite nicely with Ghandi. You are simply a left winger who loves to find random quotes that seemingly fit whatever argument you're currently having and throwing them about in an attempt to disguise the fact you have no clue what to say. Try having an original thought in your head. You'll find you're much more open to the ideas of others.

    One final point before I let you scour the internet for some more brilliant remarks from folks who ain't you. Yeah the Bible says not to pray like a hypocrite, but it also says that faith is something to be rejoiced.
    Last edited by darb72; 12-02-2012 at 05:10 AM. Reason: Because prove isn't the same as proof
    This is a novel I was asked to proofread. The author is giving 10% of the profits to kidney research, which is a big deal in the Darb household. Fair warning; it's a fantasy novel, and the main characters are lesbians. It's three bucks on kindle from Amazon.http://www.amazon.com/WINDOWS-BROKEN...ken+fairy+tale




  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by darb72 View Post

    From the same place Lob came up with the idea that Harbaugh is going to punish any players for not going to church. Faith was a big part of the teams I played on way back when. Again, notice the words BIG PART OF. As in not the whole thing, just a part. We had atheist folks on those teams and they were our brothers in the trenches.

    When Harbaugh says that faith is a big part of what the Ravens do, I'm perfectly alright with it and doubt anybody is made to feel left out. If memory serves, not to long ago there was a non-starter who spoke publicly about gay marriage. You think Aynowayimspellingthisname would have done that if he thought the team would cut him? In fact, I believe the organization came out and said they supported his right to say what ever the hell he wanted. Now when Harbaugh says that faith is a big part of the team (there's that phrase again) people are crying foul because they hold different view points.

    So yeah, I think Lob has a real problem with anybody saying something that is counter to his beliefs.
    That must be why McKinnie isnt playing.

    /sarcasm

    Sent from my DROID X2 using Forum Runner
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  3. #63
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    Re: Football and Faith

    Great post DARB.
    Pic of a natural act: UBER RAVENS FAN AND HISTORIAN GURU. THE PAST IS NOT DEAD, IN FACT, IT IS NOT EVEN PAST.' WILLIAM FAULKNER.




  4. #64
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    Re: Football and Faith

    Quote Originally Posted by Sirdowski View Post
    Seriously dude, appealing to conspiracy?

    I bet that's what the famous Harbaugh doghouse is about too. Guys who wouldn't say their hail Mary's at practice. Damn heathens get what they deserve.
    Not appealing to anything. I'm operating under the assumption that Harbaugh never (well, hardly ever) does or says anything in his capacity as Ravens head coach without a reason. Much of my problem with what he said is that I can't fathom what his reason might be for saying it publicly, in his role as the face of the team (or organization). Ramping up pressure on the players to conform--by implying that if you're not doing Bible study & chapel, you're not contributing to that "big part" of the team--is one possibility that occurred to me. There have been numerous instances when someone in an organization has "gone public" with a statement or position precisely to ensure that the organization can't pretend it never said or adopted it.

    The other thing that bothers me is that he prefaced his statement with "I know a lot of people don't like hearing this, but..." Was he trying to soften the statement? Didn't sound that way to me; it sounded defiant & dismissive ("This is a big part of who we are as a team whether you like it or not...")--& again I wonder, why would he say something like that? What's his purpose? No one would have had a problem with their internal practices--& no one would have had any reason to think there was any pressure for the players to conform to them--until Harbaugh chose to publicly identify them as "a big part of who we are as a team." No one forced him to open that door to speculation, but he did.




  5. #65

    Re: Football and Faith



    Ladies and gentlemen, the blind who will not see.

    This is a novel I was asked to proofread. The author is giving 10% of the profits to kidney research, which is a big deal in the Darb household. Fair warning; it's a fantasy novel, and the main characters are lesbians. It's three bucks on kindle from Amazon.http://www.amazon.com/WINDOWS-BROKEN...ken+fairy+tale




  6. #66

    Re: Football and Faith

    First and foremost I want to say I am a fellow Baltimore Ravens fan, but also a believer in Jesus. So I know we are looking at this topic from different perspectives and my life has changed so much since I put my faith in Jesus that it is literally impossible for me to see this from the perspective of the non-believer. In my perspective, what you are unable to see, is that a manís true character when he is by himself is defined by his faith; it is the most precious thing he has. Nobody lives their lives in complete control of their circumstances; we all have to put our trust in something, or someone.

    Especially given the continuously changing circumstances and high pressures and temptations NFL players and coaches live under. The fact of life over all times, places, and people is that putting faith in God brings unity, love, encouragement, hope, openness, and selflessness (bottom line all positive things), but putting faith in things of the world brings separation, worrying, animosity, discouragement, disappointment, misunderstanding, and selfishness. Also as a believer, and what the non-believer canít understand, is that I cannot in good conscience only give credit and praise for accomplishments to myself or others knowing God is responsible for everything I am and have, remembering where He has brought me from, and the new life He has given me filled with His peace, strength, comfort, and encouragement.

    Also I donít understand why you would think that Ravens believers coming together in prayer and sharing their faith is forcing the non-believers into believing against their will. God loves us so much that He has given us power to choose. Yes, we can reject His grace. We can refuse His offer of salvation by ignoring the faith and testimony of believers, and choosing to live for ourselves after the desires and pleasures of our sinful hearts. I do understand why you would say it is uncomfortable for non-believers, though.

    This is because God is the light of the world, but we in our sinful nature love the darkness. We are afraid of coming into the light for fear of our sinful hearts being exposed. However, those who live by the truth come into the light and their lives are open before God. But with faith aside, although I hope you will choose life, Go Ravens.




  7. #67
    SuggsKill Guest

    Re: Football and Faith

    http://www.rubmaps.com is my God.

    All jokes aside. I want to start reading the Bible to get some more information about marriage. Where should I start?




  8. #68
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    Re: Football and Faith

    Quote Originally Posted by SuggsKill View Post
    http://www.rubmaps.com is my God.

    All jokes aside. I want to start reading the Bible to get some more information about marriage. Where should I start?
    Not there.
    Milk is for babies. When you grow up, you have to drink beer.

    -Arnold Schwarzenegger


    My RSR Blog:
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    Check out Fatherhood Rules - a blog site dedicated to sports, food, music, movies, and politics.
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