Ravens-Redskins "Rivalry"

[Jake83]

Hey guys, I'm writing an article for What's Up? Annapolis Magazine about the Redskins and Ravens "rivalry" and wanted to get the fan perspective on it.

I have a few questions for you all. If you would like the chance to be cited in the magazine by your real name but don't want to give it out on the boards, you can send it to me in a private message.

If you have any information or opinions you'd like to add after answering the questions, please feel free to do so.

Thanks for taking part in this.

Here are the questions:

- Do you consider the Redskins and Ravens rivals? Why or why not?
- What would it take to make this a real rivalry? Or does the fact that they only play in the preseason and every four years in the regular season prevent it from ever becoming a real rivalry?
- Who takes the "rivalry" more seriously? Redskins or Ravens fans? Why?
- What are your feelings toward the Redskins and why do you feel that way? Do you hate them, root for them, or are you indifferent?
- What are your feelings about Redskins fans? Why do you feel that way?
- What plays or moments from past Redskins-Ravens games stand out to you?
- What is the best/funniest/most memorable story you have about you or a friend/family member that is a Redskins fan (prank, joke, memory during a game, etc.)?

[rharris1986]

The foundation of the "rivalry" to the extent that there is one goes back to the Colts era. Washington has always been envious of the success of Baltimore sports teams - Colts, Orioles, and now the Ravens. Washington is a phony baloney town and always has been. Baltimore is blue collar and has a much more "real" fan base.

But the real animosity towards the Redskins these days goes back to the fact that Jack Kent Cook was the ONE individual standing in the way of Baltimore getting an NFL expansion team between 1984 (when the Irsay's snuck out of town in the middle of a snow storm) and 1996 (when Modell brought the Browns to Baltimore). Cook stood in the way of Baltimore getting an expansion team because he was greedy and wanted to incorporate Baltimore into the Redskins market/fan base. It didn't work because the nature of Baltimore is so different from DC. Baltimore didn't get back into the NFL until after he died - a welcomed event for most Baltimore football fans.

There is no rivalry between the teams - only dislike for Washington D.C. Baltimore's rivalry is with Pittsburgh - is and always has been - and it goes all the way back to when Johnny Unitas was cut by the Steelers. Baltimore and Pittsburgh are similar blue collar towns - and we will fight it out again this year on the field.

Hey guys, I'm writing an article for What's Up? Annapolis Magazine about the Redskins and Ravens "rivalry" and wanted to get the fan perspective on it.

I have a few questions for you all. If you would like the chance to be cited in the magazine by your real name but don't want to give it out on the boards, you can send it to me in a private message.

If you have any information or opinions you'd like to add after answering the questions, please feel free to do so.

Thanks for taking part in this.

Here are the questions:

- Do you consider the Redskins and Ravens rivals? Why or why not?
- What would it take to make this a real rivalry? Or does the fact that they only play in the preseason and every four years in the regular season prevent it from ever becoming a real rivalry?
- Who takes the "rivalry" more seriously? Redskins or Ravens fans? Why?
- What are your feelings toward the Redskins and why do you feel that way? Do you hate them, root for them, or are you indifferent?
- What are your feelings about Redskins fans? Why do you feel that way?
- What plays or moments from past Redskins-Ravens games stand out to you?
- What is the best/funniest/most memorable story you have about you or a friend/family member that is a Redskins fan (prank, joke, memory during a game, etc.)?

[HoustonRaven]

Disagree about "hating Washington DC". IMO, those folks are few and far between. We showed last NHL season, there are a good number of folks here are Caps fans and Ravens fans.

As for a rivalry, I'd say ambivalence exists, not a rivalry. Our Steelers game is a rivalry. Us playing the Colts can be squeezed into the category as well, given the past Colts saga. JKC did his fare share to deny us a new team but he's on the other side of the grass, taking his nonsense with him.

The Redskins a rivalry? Nope.

[DkBlue]

Disagree about "hating Washington DC". IMO, those folks are few and far between. We showed last NHL season, there are a good number of folks here are Caps fans and Ravens fans.

As for a rivalry, I'd say ambivalence exists, not a rivalry. Our Steelers game is a rivalry. Us playing the Colts can be squeezed into the category as well, given the past Colts saga. JKC did his fare share to deny us a new team but he's on the other side of the grass, taking his nonsense with him.

The Redskins a rivalry? Nope.

Kind of reminds me of Steelers-Eagles. Many expect it to be a rvalry, it is not.

[Ravenswintitle]

I root for the Caps, Georgetown and Wizards so no issues with DC. Actually I'm watching the Skins this year pretty closely to see how RGIII performs. I think he could be a solid QB for years to come.

Don't think there is any rivalry per se. If they became a contender year after year, as the Ravens have done, then you might have something. Otherwise we make fun of Danny and their ineptness but it's not a big deal.

[Rxdoxx]

The only rivalry you are going to really find (other than trumped up media hype.... battle of the beltways bullsh*t)
is....
in areas where there are fans of both, possibly workplaces in Columbia, Annapolis, and that is bragging rights banter.

I know a lot of Skins fans, and I wish them well all the time, except when they are playing a purple bird.
Any rivalry is strictly a media created issue, not a reality, and believe me we here in Baltimore know about writers with the ability to create issues out of bullsh*t.

[BillickFan]

I don't dislike DC. I take my kids there, I go to concerts there. I root for Caps & Wiz. But........

I friggin' hate the 4Skins. Why? When Bob Irsay (may he rot in hell) moved the Colts to Indy, the league and Jack Kent Cooke jammed the Skins down our throat. Back in the days when 49ers vs Cowboys was the game of the year & would determine home field advantage thru the playoffs, we never got that game on TV here. We were stuck w/the Deadskins vs. Cardinals or some other atrocity. Why? JKC & the league considered Bmore the local DC market. They were forced on us in the days before sports bars & cable showing every game possible.

Add in the back room deals that Jack Kent Crook put together to keep the NFL out of Baltimore and you have outright hatred of that franchise. Now that JKC is gone, it's lessened. And, with little Danny Snyder at the helm, they've provided great comedy. (Spurrier, Zorn, Gibb v2.0, Albert Haynesworth......) So, it's tough to hate the pathetic. The distaste is mellowing & the fact that we keep winning & Danny keeps meddling (if he didn't remind me so much of a young Peter Angelos it would be even better) and setting the franchise back a few years means that after Pgh & Indy, the Skins are the 3rd team on my "My favorite teams are the RAvens & whoever is playing Pgh, Indy & Skins....." list. And there's a steep drop btwn the 1st 2 and the Skins.

Is it a rivalry? Not really. They haven't been good enough to be considered a rival. Different conferences. Different schedules. There's a mini-rivalry with some of the fans, but it's not a heated intense rivalry like with Pgh. I think it's funny that their fans have a wee bit of arrogance b/c of their vaunted traditions & history, but the team has sucked so it's mostly hot air & tough to take them seriously. Their fans are like the guy who talks about how tough he is & then some non-descript non-threatening guy walks toward him & he runs away. Skins have been kings of the off-season, signing big name players, etc. but it hasn't translated to on the field success. That waters down any kind of rivalry. Is it still fun to make fun of them? Sure! Is it still fun to pick on their fans? You betcha. But is it a real rivalry? Nope, never will be because we don't play often enough & the stakes aren't as high. And, unless you're in your 40's or older, you don't even know about the Jack Kent Cooke thing.

[Mista T]

Do you consider the Redskins and Ravens rivals? Why or why not?

A minor rival. When there was the annual Colts-Redskins game, the rivalry was real, albeit one-sided. Even though the Colts dominated the series at one time 14-2 over the late '50s-'60s, and the Redskins were bottom-feeders, many of their fans looked to the Baltimore game as the biggest of the season. The only times that Griffith or DC stadium would sell out was the bi-annual visit by the Colts. Every four years of Ravens-Redskins, plus the one-sidedness, has placed a damper on the enthusiasm.

The demise of the Redskins franchise in the 90's to present has taken the excitement out of playing them. Moreover, the pendulum swinging -- when DC has a contender, we don't, and vice versa. Look it up: since DC entered the NFL in the 1933 and Baltimore in 1950, there have been only two seasons ('71 & '76) when both cities' teams made the playoffs. The Redskins were a perennial contender only when Baltimore did not have a team. During the fourteen seasons since the '99 season, when both Snyder and Bisciotti arrived, the Redskins have made the playoffs only three times, and otherwise were not in playoff contention, while the Ravens made the playoffs eight times and were in December contention eleven seasons.

Also, with Jack Kent Crook's passing, there is no lightning rod of evil any more. The only emotion that I can feel regarding Dan Snyder is sympathy for Redskins fans.

What would it take to make this a real rivalry? Or does the fact that they only play in the preseason and every four years in the regular season prevent it from ever becoming a real rivalry?

Reverting to an annual or at least bi-annual game, coupled with return to respectability by the Redskins, might pump some blood into the rivalry. Remotely possible if the NFL were to adopt the 17 game season and the Rooney "rivalry" plan offered a few years back as the 17th game (this idea was bandied about by some NFL owners a few years ago).

Or reorganizing the NFL to place both Baltimore and Landover in the same division -- never going to happen, as the East Coast alternates AFC/NFC teams along I-95 to spread Fox/CBS coverage.

Preseason games are a joke. They don't contribute to rivalries.

Who takes the "rivalry" more seriously? Redskins or Ravens fans? Why?

Redskins fans. Just read their message boards when the subject of the Ravens comes up: many of them post derogatory comments while looking down their noses, despite the mediocrity of their team and their obvious envy our successes. "methinks the Redskins fan doth protest too much".

What are your feelings toward the Redskins and why do you feel that way? Do you hate them, root for them, or are you indifferent?

I used to root against them. Due to the Redskins fans, who used to be obnoxious (see below) -- they are now merely indifferent.

I have subsequently mellowed into neutrality, but not indifference. I attend about one event at FedEx Field each season: i.e. every Ravens scrimmage, preseason, reg season game, plus some draft days and a few non-conflicting other Redskins games -- I live closer to Raljon than Camden Yards and Redskins tickets can be acquired at half of face value or better (there was a reason why Snyder covered up or removed 14,000 seats). I receive all the Redskins games on Verizon, watching those which don't conflict with games involving our division rival. Plus the bombardment of Redskins shows on Comcast and DC broadcast TV channels makes it easy. Plus the Sun now charging for their web-site, leaving the Annapolis Evening Capital and the Washington Post as the only local newspapers free on the internet with decent Ravens coverage, but also Redskins exposure.

What are your feelings about Redskins fans? Why do you feel that way?

When I grew up in Annapolis, there were no Redskins fans north of Edgewater. I first encountered them at College Park, later at Goddard Space Flight Center and found many of them them to be offensive, know-nothings, and green with envy (that included Senators fans towards the Orioles). Mean-spirited trolls also: rubbing salt in wounds when the Colts would lose playoff games.

Redskin fans have gone through a lot of change since the Redskins became mediocre, starting with the 1993 season and into the Danny Snyder "glory years". Many of the old die-hards seemed to have lost interest. While there used to be a good sized contingent around Annapolis and mid-Anne Arundel County, they pretty much have just disappeared, judging by the dearth of Redskins car flags, license plates, and apparel worn at Annapolis Mall. I had expected many to crawl out of their hiding spots due the the RG3 excitement, but it hasn't been much different.

What plays or moments from past Redskins-Ravens games stand out to you?

Any time Ed Reed would get close to the ball. In the 2004 game, he single-handedly outmaneuvered the RB blocker, stripped the ball from the Redskins QB, and ran it back for a TD to turn the game around into the Ravens 17-10 win. In the 2008 game, he caused another fumble and ran it back for a TD in the 24-10 rout.

What is the best/funniest/most memorable story you have about you or a friend/family member that is a Redskins fan (prank, joke, memory during a game, etc.)?

Two short tales at Raljon:

(1) Mrs. T, after paying her respects to Dan Snyder's toilets during the 2000 game, was approached by a sarcastic, thumb-up-her-ass Redskin female fan who was jabbing at her for wearing purple warpaint and her signature hair style of purple feathers sprouting out of her single braid. Sarcastic thumb-up-ass Redskin fan: "Is this how you Ravens fans dress up to try to impress us?". Mrs T: "You should see how we dress for Halloween!"

(2) Leaving the loge level (freebie seats) after the 2004 Ed Reed show, we came across a bloodied Ravens female fan who had been accosted in the stairwell by a Redskins male fan, who subsequently ducked into one of the suites. PG County police, in pursuit, came running down the hallway behind the suites, so we did our civic duty by narcking out the location of the perpetrator. Another Redskins fan, who acted like an authority figure, stood in the doorway to the suite, telling the cop that it was a private function which he could not barge. PG County's finest raised his billy-club and told the obnoxious Redskins fan to step aside or he would be arrested. The cop swiftly went inside the suite, handcuffed the attacker, brought him out to the Ravens female fan (half his size), who promptly identified him. Those of us watching this spectacle gave a warm round of applause to the cop as hauled away the perpetrator.


Jake: good luck with your story. It's an interesting topic around Annapolis and should be a well read feature in your magazine, which I subscribe to.

Portending things to come: the Ravens scrimmage a few weeks ago drew 22,000+ at Navy-Marine Corps Memorial Stadium, while Snyder almost simultaneously announced that the Redskins are moving their training camp to Richmond; the Redskins are ceding central Maryland to the Ravens. There will always be a few Redskins loyalists, but they will likely stay in the shadows for the next 5 to 10 years as that franchise will continue to wallow in mediocrity after the double hit of depleting its stock of draft picks in the RG3 trade, and having its cap reduced by $36 million by the NFL.

[downside52]

No more or less than any other team. The Steelers and their 2 superbowls in the last 10 years are a rival - their success matches and even in some seasons exceeds ours and we consistently hope that this year's team can keep up with and even beat them. The redskins have not managed to have any significant or consistent success since the inception of the Ravens and thus if you wanted to pick a nearby team for a rivalry for them perhaps the browns would be a better choice.

[RavenScallywag]

The rivalry I see more is fans in the opposing market, who are frustrated at living in a city where another team is "king". My in-laws talk a lot of smack about the Ravens. It seems that it's mainly from the fact that they get tired of seeing Ravens fans all over the place. Go figure, you might see a lot of BALTIMORE Ravens fans in BALTIMORE. I can expect some of the same behavior of Ravens fans who live in Southern MD/DC areas...

From a team perspective, it's probably more a friendly rivalry. We don't really matter to each other. We see them once every 4 years, that's it. The on the field "rivalry" would only come from the close proximity. And again, I bet you not a single Raven, except maybe those who grew up in the Baltimore/DC area, care when we play the Redskins any more than when we play any other NFC team.

[bensmotorcyclehelmt]

Ravens/Redskins are as much of a rivalry as Ravens/Browns.

I think the level of concern is likely greater on the Redskins fan side than the Ravens. The only times Ravens fans pay attention to what the Redskins are doing is once every four years, the week before the game.

I do feel for Redskins fans though. I have a few friends that are Skins fans, eternally optimistic, and extremely loyal, only to have their hopes and dreaams crushed by Week 8 of each season.

[RavenScallywag]

Ravens/Redskins are as much of a rivalry as Ravens/Browns.

I think the level of concern is likely greater on the Redskins fan side than the Ravens. The only times Ravens fans pay attention to what the Redskins are doing is once every four years, the week before the game.

I do feel for Redskins fans though. I have a few friends that are Skins fans, eternally optimistic, and extremely loyal, only to have their hopes and dreaams crushed by Week 8 of each season.

I disagree...Browns are a divisional opponent. Even if we dominate them, we have to worry about playing them because screwing up has worse consequences. AND we have to play them twice every year. Maybe they suck about as bad as Redskins do, but as we saw vs Jax, a good team can sleep on a sucky team and get embarassed. More chances and consequences if we do that vs Browns than against Redskins.

I will say this...I love Harbaugh, but I think the way he keeps talking about Ravens fans "taking over" D.C. is getting us undue attention. DC fans really use that as wood on the fire to keep firing away at Ravens fans and act as general asshats. And it's kind've hard to defend Harbaugh on that, because honestly, why is he so hung up on Ravens "taking over D.C."? Focus on sweeping the idiot Steeler fans out of Baltimore first!

He also threw something in recently where he said he wanted us to be Redskins fans' "AFC team", while they could be our "NFC team"...except he will always root for the Eagles. He made sure to point that out, so...bonus points with him for Redskin fans. IMO, he should've heard the question and just listened for the next one, mouth closed

[Mista T]

I disagree...Browns are a divisional opponent. Even if we dominate them, we have to worry about playing them because screwing up has worse consequences. AND we have to play them twice every year. Maybe they suck about as bad as Redskins do, but as we saw vs Jax, a good team can sleep on a sucky team and get embarassed. More chances and consequences if we do that vs Browns than against Redskins.

Scallawag: I disagree. Merely playing in the same division doesn't elevate another team's status to that of a "rival". I have yet to see any emotional buildup for playing either Ohio team, even those few seasons when there had competitive teams. For our first few years, there had been a lot of Ravens fan to Browns fan animosity; that has pretty much faded away, particularly on our side.

On the other hand, there has always been an extra amount of emotion when playing the Steelers, and to a lesser extent the Redskins, regardless of their competitiveness. I think the difference is interaction with rival teams fans. Many of us have to interact with those turncoat vermin who support the Steelers or Redskins, but don't know fans of the Browns or Bengals.

I will say this...I love Harbaugh, but I think the way he keeps talking about Ravens fans "taking over" D.C. is getting us undue attention. DC fans really use that as wood on the fire to keep firing away at Ravens fans and act as general asshats. And it's kind've hard to defend Harbaugh on that, because honestly, why is he so hung up on Ravens "taking over D.C."? Focus on sweeping the idiot Steeler fans out of Baltimore first!

He also threw something in recently where he said he wanted us to be Redskins fans' "AFC team", while they could be our "NFC team"...except he will always root for the Eagles. He made sure to point that out, so...bonus points with him for Redskin fans. IMO, he should've heard the question and just listened for the next one, mouth closed

It's part of the Ravens marketing strategy. The good days of perennial playoff contention will not likely last forever; therefore, building out a fan base into metro DC (which is double the population of metro Baltimore and wealthier) makes good business sense.

[middleriverterp]

Jake

I currently live in Odenton, which seems to be the border for the Ravens/Redskins fandom. I have been a Ravens fan since they moved and a season ticket holder since 2008. I was 12 when the Colts left so I can't speak to the past history like some of our esteemed fans can but I will answer the questions as a 41 year old fan.

-Do you consider the Redskins and Ravens rivals? Why or why not?
The Ravens and Redskins are not rivals on the football field, they play in separate Conferences and do not meet enough during the regular season to warrant a rivalry. However, the teams are rivals as it relates to building (the Ravens) or maintaining (the Redskins) a fan base. Since 96 the Ravens have been able to expand their fan base into AA, Howard and even PG county.

- What would it take to make this a real rivalry? Or does the fact that they only play in the preseason and every four years in the regular season prevent it from ever becoming a real rivalry?
I don't think they will ever be real rivals unless they face each other in the Superbowl. The lack of meaningful games prevents the establishment of an on field rivalry.

- Who takes the "rivalry" more seriously? Redskins or Ravens fans? Why?
Redskins fans like to poke fun at Ravens fans, but in their hearts they wish their organization was run as professionally as the Baltimore Ravens are.

- What are your feelings toward the Redskins and why do you feel that way? Do you hate them, root for them, or are you indifferent? What are your feelings about Redskins fans? Why do you feel that way?
I am indifferent to the Redskins, and I feel sorry for their fans.

- What plays or moments from past Redskins-Ravens games stand out to you?
October 10, 2004 at Fed Ex field. Ravens won the game 17-10 but with the game still close Redskins fans started heading for the exits. When I asked why, they said, "You'll see." Waited 45 minutes for a bus to take me to the metro and I swore I would never go back to Fed Ex. M&T is so much easier to get out of.

Good luck with your article.

[Big Bird]

I'd say that there is a definite rivalry between Skins fans and Ravens fans, particularly as you approach the D.C. area. I lived in PG county for many years prior to retiring to Florida. As a contractor consultant, I traveled the DC Beltway supporting Federal Government clients for years. The Redskins subject would always arrise with clients. It became a near personal sort of thing. They appeared to know little about the game itself, while predicting a winning season for their 'skins' at the start of every season. I would always wonder what the basis of their opinion was, especially in their obvious week seasons. So many "out of towners" come to town and immediately become skins fans, even if they didn't understand the game and could not discuss game elements.

As a Baltimore born guy, I grew up with the Colts in the late forties, beginning with Y.A. Tittle to Billy Hillenbrand touchdown passes at single tier Baltimore stadium on 33rd St. Their uniforms were green and silver/Gray. Tailgating had not yet begun. Then the league went out of business. I followed B'more football all those early years. Then came purchase of the Dallas Texans and the uprise of the new Baltimore Colts behind Johnny Unitas. That was around 1955 as I remember being in Navy boot camp in Bainbridge MD. For those who did not live through that era, you missed a lot.

When I moved to the DC suburbs around 1973 was when I began hearing about how great the Redskins were from their fans. Kinda hated to go to work on Monday mornings if they won the day prior. Redskins fans can be super individuals like all people, but as football fans they flat out suck. They'll tell you the Skins are the best but they cant tell you why they think so. Thats my story and I'm stickin to it.

[RavenScallywag]

When I moved to the DC suburbs around 1973 was when I began hearing about how great the Redskins were from their fans. Kinda hated to go to work on Monday mornings if they won the day prior. Redskins fans can be super individuals like all people, but as football fans they flat out suck. They'll tell you the Skins are the best but they cant tell you why they think so. Thats my story and I'm stickin to it.

Another thing is they love to point to their 3 Lombardi's and their fight song. Nevermind that those 3 Lombardis are covered in about 20 years of dust and suckitude. I suppose one more element of the rivalry is the band/song...Redskins have probably the most famous fight song in the NFL, while Ravens have tried to carryover the Baltimore Colts Marching Band. The difference is that most Redskins fans celebrate their fight song as a big piece of their culture, while the majority of Ravens fans are pretty indifferent about our band (Some want them gone). My little brother is a music teacher and he's said that his opinion of the Marching Ravens are that their musicianship is pretty lacking.

[Coastergenius]

I don't really consider it a true "rivalry" I just always root against them, and hope that they never become greater than the Ravens. I have a way of feeling that if we go 11-5, and they go 12-4, it's a lost season. It's a competition for fans and bragging rights more than anything.

[Section 502 Raven]

i despise the colts for leaving baltimore but for some reason i am a wizards fan. i think it was because they eased out of baltimore and maryland. they were the capital bullets and than became the washington bullets.

it seems like there is a big push to get the bullts name back. you see a lot of bullets jerseys. polin changed the name because of the assocation of bullets and washington dc crime but wiht abe gone the nostalgic name could be coming back. they will suck again this year as well but i still watch them.

[scottie b]

no rivalry between a hammer and a nail.........sorry

[Kevlar]

The only rivalry here is between their marketing departments due to the overlapping fan base.