OT: Shooting at Chiefs facility

**Raveninwoodlawn** · 12-01-2012, 01:21 PM

Those of you acting like nobody should care about this guy have no idea how tough things like that would be on family...and a football team is family to most players.

If your brother, or father, or son did something like this, you would be seriously hurting inside and wondering how badly he may be been hurting and what you could have maybe done to prevent all this. It doesn't mean that you are condoning the crime.

**HoustonRaven** · 12-01-2012, 01:21 PM

Originally Posted by StingerNLG

I'm having trouble feeling sorry for the player. If he was intent on killing himself, then just do that. Instead he kills his girlfriend, which now impacts HER family/friends/etc:, left a 3 month old baby an orphan now. And then purposely went to the facility and killed himself in front of coaches, which will scar them for the rest of their lives I'm sure. Not to mention the impact on the rest of the organization, the NFL, etc: Oh yeah, and not to mention HIS family as well who now have to deal with this.

He didn't just hurt himself. He did irreparable damage to a LOT of other people in the process. That is more the tragedy to me than this coward.

Agree 100%

**StingerNLG** · 12-01-2012, 01:36 PM

Originally Posted by Corey

We still don't know his state of mind, so some of your statements might have been a stretch. He might not have planned to kill himself. And going to the team facility was probably because that was where he felt safe, they said he didn't pull the trigger until the police arrived. More likely he knew that he'd just fucked up real bad and couldn't face the consequences. Either way, I am inclined to agree. He killed his girlfriend in front of her mother and I am assuming their baby was in the home as well. No coming back from that.

What parts of this would be a stretch? He killed not just himself, but his girlfriend. The ramifications of what he did reach far beyond him just killing himself. He hurt a lot of people in this.

You're right, we don't know what his state of mind was. But to me this was still the act of a coward.

**Iscull** · 12-01-2012, 01:41 PM

Originally Posted by leachisabeast

Jesus fuck, that is going to affect this team for a long time. Crazy bus extremely sad. RIP to his family. He was a key player for KC, not sure what would cause him to do this. Possibly worse than what happened with the wrestler Chris Benoit and his family...

The Chris Benoit situation is exactly what I thought when I heard the story. No one in their right mind would do what he did, so I do think the criticism is a little unjust. For all we know, he could have been batteling a serious state of depression. I think the leauge may want to look into this case if there is any chance head trauma played a role in this. Not that this makes this act any more just, but you have to be congnizant of all the possible things that could have factored into this.

**Corey** · 12-01-2012, 01:57 PM

Originally Posted by StingerNLG

What parts of this would be a stretch? He killed not just himself, but his girlfriend. The ramifications of what he did reach far beyond him just killing himself. He hurt a lot of people in this.

You're right, we don't know what his state of mind was. But to me this was still the act of a coward.

I am not denying that he hurt a lot of people but your post, at least my interpretation, makes it sound like he intended to kill himself in front of members of the Chiefs organization or that he intended to cause both families involved a ton of pain. The truth is, and this what I meant by we don't know what his state of mind was, he probably hadn't considered the consequences of his actions. This reeks of a spur of the moment type of crime, I doubt he spent weeks planning how he could hurt all those people. Doesn't change the fact that he did it.

**JMUpurkfool** · 12-01-2012, 02:35 PM

Originally Posted by Raveninwoodlawn

Those of you acting like nobody should care about this guy have no idea how tough things like that would be on family...and a football team is family to most players.

If your brother, or father, or son did something like this, you would be seriously hurting inside and wondering how badly he may be been hurting and what you could have maybe done to prevent all this. It doesn't mean that you are condoning the crime.

You're explaining their point. It was an extremely selfish act. I'll never understand and neither will those that he has hurt.

**Ravenboy2003** · 12-01-2012, 02:47 PM

Will be interesting to see what the league does here. I mean, seriously. The head coach and GM just witnessed one of their own players offing himself in the team parking lot the day before a game.

I have to think Goodell will step in here and push the game back a day or two.

**iggyman555** · 12-01-2012, 03:12 PM

nfl told carolina to travel as there will be game tom at 1pm

**RavenMadness** · 12-01-2012, 03:22 PM

Originally Posted by iggyman555

nfl told carolina to travel as there will be game tom at 1pm

Adam Schefter ‏@AdamSchefter Chiefs: After discussions between the league office, Head Coach Romeo Crennel and Chiefs team captains, the Chiefs adv… http://say.ly/IBK4GZI

**Raveninwoodlawn** · 12-01-2012, 03:29 PM

Originally Posted by JMUpurkfool

You're explaining their point. It was an extremely selfish act. I'll never understand and neither will those that he has hurt.

I don't think anybody saying they felt sympathy is condoning it either.

I think my statement though would explain why his teamates would do something like "dedicate" the game to him...or something like that if they were to go there.

**houstonravensfan** · 12-01-2012, 03:43 PM

How long before the media begin screaming about concussion syndrome and/or "roid rage"?

My ex discovered her brother minutes after he hung himself. She never recovered from the pschological trauma.

**Cj34** · 12-01-2012, 03:49 PM

Originally Posted by Raveninwoodlawn

Those of you acting like nobody should care about this guy have no idea how tough things like that would be on family...and a football team is family to most players.

If your brother, or father, or son did something like this, you would be seriously hurting inside and wondering how badly he may be been hurting and what you could have maybe done to prevent all this. It doesn't mean that you are condoning the crime.

No matter how heinous an act, if it's your family member or close friend you still care for the person. Just because you care for them or feel sympathy for them doesn't mean you condone his actions or don't feel sympathy for his victims. In fact, your greatest emotion might be guilt - thinking what could you have done to prevent this... or why didn't you see the signs of the person breaking down.

**Lee Van Cleef** · 12-01-2012, 04:25 PM

Art Jones, a childhood friend of Jovan, reacts.

Terrible, terrible situation. Everyone lost in this.

**GOTA** · 12-01-2012, 05:17 PM

Horrible story. That poor little girl.

**PerpetuallyBored74** · 12-01-2012, 07:40 PM

Originally Posted by GOTA

Horrible story. That poor little girl.

Also the families, friends, teammates, even KC fans...just horrible for everyone

EDIT
Even for his agent too apparently:
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap100...nt-crazy-wrong

And yes, Linta is also Flacco's agent.

**Beau Petard** · 12-02-2012, 05:44 AM

Just browsing the headlines, and saw this item about Jovan Belcher from KC. Incredibly sad, and I'm sure traumatic for Pioli, Crennel, others involved, the team, the fans, etc. My thoughts and prayers go out to all of them.

As a Ravens-related issue, however, I wanted to ask about the following from the article--
=====
"I struggle a little bit, obviously, because Jovan Belcher's profile elevates the subject," Kansas City Mayor Sly James said. "I hope people will look at the situation and try not to judge the person. There are a lot of people hurting. There's a young baby right now without parents."

James said that he spoke to Pioli after the incident. While he refused to discuss the GM's emotional state, James said Pioli was "extremely concerned that fans of this team are not disappointed and not left in the cold."

"I think they think there's an obligation to the people of this city, the fans of the team and the fans of the other team to play the game," James said.

The news cast a pall over the organization as its 1-10 team prepared to play the Panthers on Sunday.
======

I realize there are a lot of factors involved here, and not to single out any one more important than another, but money is one. What would you think if something similar happened with a Ravens player? Should a game be postponed?

**RavenScallywag** · 12-02-2012, 06:34 AM

don't know, I didn't really expect them to postpone the game. Very rarely do games get moved in the league. I don't know that we've ever had this level of tragedy...Certainly for 9/11, there was a league-wide suspension of games. But that was a tragedy on a national scale.

You are certainly correct that money is a factor there. They have a TV contract for a 1pm game on Sunday. If you postpone that, you basically give up that TV time, which also forces Carolina's hand as their fans will lose out on seeing a team's road game.

Another thought to consider...what if the Ravens' opponent had a tragedy like this occur the day before a road game (for us), and we agreed to reschedule the game to Monday or Tuesday, but it couldn't be televised. How would fans feel about that, and also about taking on a short week now as well?

There's no right or wrong answer here. Yes, this is dealing with an issue bigger than a football game, but there's a good deal of angles to look at here. Probably helps that the Chiefs aren't in the running for the playoffs anymore, and Carolina is out after another loss or two...but on the other hand, that means the Panthers aren't going to want to disadvantage themselves.

**HoustonRaven** · 12-02-2012, 07:53 AM

If it were a Ravens player, I'd give it as much emotion as I do any murderer -- not much if any.

This man, for what ever the reason or motivation, is a murderer. He should be treated as such. My sadness goes to the families of those effected, not the murderer. And I'm having a hard time with ESPN showing that memorial picture of Belcher this morning on Sportscenter. Bad taste, IMO

As to if the game should be played, yes, it should. Moving this game would effect the Panthers as well. Yes, it's a tragedy, but I don't believe it reaches the level of having to move a game.

**Raveninwoodlawn** · 12-02-2012, 08:11 AM

Originally Posted by HoustonRaven

If it were a Ravens player, I'd give it as much emotion as I do any murderer -- not much if any.

This man, for what ever the reason or motivation, is a murderer. He should be treated as such. My sadness goes to the families of those effected, not the murderer. And I'm having a hard time with ESPN showing that memorial picture of Belcher this morning on Sportscenter. Bad taste, IMO

As to if the game should be played, yes, it should. Moving this game would effect the Panthers as well. Yes, it's a tragedy, but I don't believe it reaches the level of having to move a game.

Don't agree at all.

This is a crime of passion. While it does not excuse the crime, this wasn't a bad person. He got caught up and made a horrible spur of the moment, emotional terrible mistake and then was not able to comprehend and deal with that life changing mistake.

Of course, those with no attachment have limited sympathy, but like I said, to the NFL...players, coaches, teams and many Chiefs fans, he was family, and they know that everybody that commits a crime is not necessarily a bad person.

**festivus** · 12-02-2012, 08:27 AM

Originally Posted by Raveninwoodlawn

Those of you acting like nobody should care about this guy have no idea how tough things like that would be on family...and a football team is family to most players.

Then let them feel sorry for him. Let them care, and mourn. *I* have no sympathy for him. If he wasn't a football player, almost nobody else would either.

Good people die all the time and I don't know them, or mourn them. Why should I go out of my way to get choked up over a murderer? I think not.

I don't think this is quite what you were saying, RiW, but there is so much mopey-eyed stuff all over the internet over how this was a decent guy & we should all feel bad, I'm way past tired of it.