Heads need to roll

**DrUnk** · 12-02-2012, 06:24 PM

This is totally unacceptable. Losing to a 3rd string QB. Throwing bombs when we need to make first downs and grind it out. Harbs throwing shitty challenge flags. ARGH!!!!!!!!!!!!!

**LukeDaniel** · 12-02-2012, 06:31 PM

Its been a while since I've seen one NFL team outcoach another that badly.

**darthpemo** · 12-02-2012, 06:32 PM

Originally Posted by LukeDaniel

Its been a while since I've seen one NFL team outcoach another that badly.

I am not sure of that... week after week we have won games in spite of coaching...

**steelerhater** · 12-02-2012, 06:35 PM

Originally Posted by DrUnk

This is totally unacceptable. Losing to a 3rd string QB. Throwing bombs when we need to make first downs and grind it out. Harbs throwing shitty challenge flags. ARGH!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Not really. Let's face it, the Ravens have been playing over their heads squeaking games out. They are not a very good team and they were exposed today. Imagine if Big Ben played, it would've been a blowout. Flacco is not anywhere near elite. He underthrows the deep passes and overthrows the shorter ones.

**darthpemo** · 12-02-2012, 06:37 PM

Originally Posted by steelerhater

Not really. Let's face it, the Ravens have been playing over their heads squeaking games out. They are not a very good team and they were exposed today. Imagine if Big Ben played, it would've been a blowout. Flacco is not anywhere near elite. He underthrows the deep passes and overthrows the shorter ones.

He is simply unaware. He had no business throwing long balls - I can't stand the AC.

**Uli2001** · 12-02-2012, 06:38 PM

The law of averages "caught up with" the Ravens today. You can't keep playing terrible football and winning week after week.

The offensive play calling was bad as usual, Flacco was a deer in the highlights as usual, but the defensive effort was much more disappointing. You put 20 points on the board against this Steelers defense, it should be enough to beat Charlie Batch and his bumbling receivers (outside of Miller). The roughing the passer penalty at the end to put them in FG range was just the cherry at the top of this steaming pile of a performance. The defense was simply not ready to play.

As for Flacco, if I am the Ravens, I would be willing to see him one more year under a different OC. If he doesn't develop, then that is it. You will never get more than the occasional pretty deep pass out of Flacco. He is not a leader of the troops, period. And you need that in this league to win championships. You can win one with noodle-armed Dilfer, but you will be hard-pressed to win one with Flacco.

**landspeed** · 12-02-2012, 06:38 PM

Originally Posted by darthpemo

I am not sure of that... week after week we have won games in spite of coaching...

Pretty much. Not much else needs to be said. This is no longer an OC problem, this is a coaching problem.

Over this coaching staff as a whole. John Harbaugh is horrible at putting players in the best position to succeed. Hes horrible at managing the clock, horrible at judging talent, with just a horrible philosophy as a whole in order to be a good coach. He was handed such a gifted and talented team and has nothing to show for it. Players are tired of the philosophy(torrey smith and anquan boldin both recently making comments about the way we dont use the middle of the field), fans are tired of it. Im tired of games like these. We have the potential to be so much more, but we have an over-bearing parent at the helm.

**ravenray** · 12-02-2012, 06:43 PM

not surprised anymore with Harbaugh's team. Maybe this team should really have a mutiny.

**steelerhater** · 12-02-2012, 06:47 PM

Originally Posted by Uli2001

The law of averages "caught up with" the Ravens today. You can't keep playing terrible football and winning week after week.

The offensive play calling was bad as usual, Flacco was a deer in the highlights as usual, but the defensive effort was much more disappointing. You put 20 points on the board against this Steelers defense, it should be enough to beat Charlie Batch and his bumbling receivers (outside of Miller). The roughing the passer penalty at the end to put them in FG range was just the cherry at the top of this steaming pile of a performance. The defense was simply not ready to play.As for Flacco, if I am the Ravens, I would be willing to see him one more year under a different OC. If he doesn't develop, then that is it. You will never get more than the occasional pretty deep pass out of Flacco. He is not a leader of the troops, period. And you need that in this league to win championships. You can win one with noodle-armed Dilfer, but you will be hard-pressed to win one with Flacco.

The defense was ready, they just aren't that good.

**ravenray** · 12-02-2012, 06:47 PM

Originally Posted by landspeed

Pretty much. Not much else needs to be said. This is no longer an OC problem, this is a coaching problem.

Over this coaching staff as a whole. John Harbaugh is horrible at putting players in the best position to succeed. Hes horrible at managing the clock, horrible at judging talent, with just a horrible philosophy as a whole in order to be a good coach. He was handed such a gifted and talented team and has nothing to show for it. Players are tired of the philosophy(torrey smith and anquan boldin both recently making comments about the way we dont use the middle of the field), fans are tired of it. Im tired of games like these. We have the potential to be so much more, but we have an over-bearing parent at the helm.

Is there coach luckier than Harabugh? special team and DB coach at Philly then handed a talented team to coach, only thing he needs to do is hiring competent coaches but he can't even do it right.

**kojo** · 12-02-2012, 06:54 PM

Originally Posted by ravenray

Is there coach luckier than Harabugh? special team and DB coach at Philly then handed a talented team to coach, only thing he needs to do is hiring competent coaches but he can't even do it right.

i disagree. the ravens team he inherited was not very good at all. look at their record the season before he came and the seasons prior collectively. the ravens were not a consistently yearly playoff team like they are now under Harbaugh. now Tomlin on the other hand, he inherited a clearly more talented team. Per ESPN:

"Harbaugh and Atlanta's Mike Smith are tied for the best winning percentage (.707) among head coaches who began their career since 1970 (minimum 70 games). Harbaugh's record is 53-22.

Pittsburgh's Mike Tomlin ranks third on that list with a .670 winning percentage. His record is 61-30."

**ravenray** · 12-02-2012, 06:57 PM

Originally Posted by kojo

i disagree. the ravens team he inherited was not very good at all. look at their record the season before he came and the seasons prior collectively. the ravens were not a consistently yearly playoff team like they are now under Harbaugh. now Tomlin on the other hand, he inherited a clearly more talented team. Per ESPN:

"Harbaugh and Atlanta's Mike Smith are tied for the best winning percentage (.707) among head coaches who began their career since 1970 (minimum 70 games). Harbaugh's record is 53-22.

Pittsburgh's Mike Tomlin ranks third on that list with a .670 winning percentage. His record is 61-30."

Billick had a talented team, players just turned him out. The talent was there.

**landspeed** · 12-02-2012, 06:57 PM

Originally Posted by kojo

i disagree. the ravens team he inherited was not very good at all. look at their record the season before he came and the seasons prior collectively. the ravens were not a consistently yearly playoff team like they are now under Harbaugh. now Tomlin on the other hand, he inherited a clearly more talented team. Per ESPN:

"Harbaugh and Atlanta's Mike Smith are tied for the best winning percentage (.707) among head coaches who began their career since 1970 (minimum 70 games). Harbaugh's record is 53-22.

Pittsburgh's Mike Tomlin ranks third on that list with a .670 winning percentage. His record is 61-30."

Not good at all? Im sorry but he had a very good team.

It was our defense that carried this team through Harbaughs first 4 years, not the offense. The only thing that Harbaugh has added to this team is the offense and the offense is still our highest issue.

**veritas** · 12-02-2012, 07:06 PM

Originally Posted by Uli2001

The law of averages "caught up with" the Ravens today. You can't keep playing terrible football and winning week after week.

The offensive play calling was bad as usual, Flacco was a deer in the highlights as usual, but the defensive effort was much more disappointing. You put 20 points on the board against this Steelers defense, it should be enough to beat Charlie Batch and his bumbling receivers (outside of Miller). The roughing the passer penalty at the end to put them in FG range was just the cherry at the top of this steaming pile of a performance. The defense was simply not ready to play.

As for Flacco, if I am the Ravens, I would be willing to see him one more year under a different OC. If he doesn't develop, then that is it. You will never get more than the occasional pretty deep pass out of Flacco. He is not a leader of the troops, period. And you need that in this league to win championships. You can win one with noodle-armed Dilfer, but you will be hard-pressed to win one with Flacco.

I agree totally on Flacco. This team and its fans have been so used to having no QB at all that Flacco has looked like a top tier QB in comparison. However, after seeing him go multiple quarters and/or games where he looks asleep and plays horribly, and this in year five, I think it's dawning on people that he is not a guy who will carry you to the SB. Plus, Flacco has enjoyed top five defenses most of the time here. As more of the burden falls on him, I'm not seeing a guy who can do the job.

**kojo** · 12-02-2012, 07:16 PM

Originally Posted by landspeed

Not good at all? Im sorry but he had a very good team.

It was our defense that carried this team through Harbaughs first 4 years, not the offense. The only thing that Harbaugh has added to this team is the offense and the offense is still our highest issue.

It has to be more than that otherwise the Ravens wouldn't win so much especially compared to the Billick era. The Jets definitely fit that definition though. key word is context when I'm mentioning good/talent, since everyone likes comparing the Ravens to teams like the Colts (manning era), Patriots, Packers, etc. 5-11 regardless of whether the players "quit" on the coach (which is pitiful on the coach in and of itself) is not talent and if anything reinforces the good Harbaugh has brought (how many back-to-back playoff seasons did Billick have?). The fact that people are ALREADY making "heads need to roll" threads when a team JUST went 9-3 with only 2 other teams in the entire NFL with better records speaks volumes here. but hey, the loss is fresh, you guys can get back to letting it out. agree to disagree here.

**Jay D83** · 12-02-2012, 07:25 PM

I'm getting tired of Flacco AND Harbaugh. Maybe a housecleaning is in order....

**KevinG** · 12-02-2012, 07:26 PM

Originally Posted by Jay D83

I'm getting tired of Flacco AND Harbaugh. Maybe a housecleaning is in order....

Who do you replace them with? Gotta have a plan before you do something like that.

**Jay D83** · 12-02-2012, 07:31 PM

Originally Posted by KevinG

Who do you replace them with? Gotta have a plan before you do something like that.

If this keeps going on, the wheels will fall off the bus eventually. We really are becoming the Eagles of the AFC.

**rharris1986** · 12-02-2012, 07:33 PM

Lets start with getting rid of Cam and see where that gets us.

This is, however, a bad team and it is not going anywhere this year. At least we found Justin Tucker.

**bmorecareful** · 12-02-2012, 07:40 PM

Coaching changes on offense are long overdue. John Harbaugh, I don't know... I think we have all understood, at some depth of our consciousness, that he is probably not contributing much if anything to this team in X's and O's. He is a motivator and a delegator, your traditional managerial type. He's not a visionary, he's not a gameplan guy. But his game management remains where it was in 2008 and no better. He is not improving or learning, and his team was totally unprepared today.

I still don't think Harbaugh isn't the right guy for this team. He just needs more help. He is a HC who needs to have top-tier coordinators, and he doesn't have a top-tier OC or DC. If we upgrade at the coordinator spots that might have a major effect.

In terms of personnel, Flacco is not the problem. He did not have a great game, but no rational person thinks his failures in this game define him as a player and QB, especially given how badly his teammates around him also failed. He CAN play better, which we know. I BELIEVE he can play more consistently, but I doubt he can do it under this offensive staff.

The people who want to get rid of Flacco for Alex Smith or whoever are stupid and don't know football, but I can understand that they're thinking with their guts and not their minds. That's fine. If nothing else, change OCs and give Flacco a year under the franchise tag. Then, at a minimum we'll know more.