Fire cam

[wickedsolo]

I think Flacco has the skill to be a very good QB, but just like we keep saying with Cam "shoving a square peg into a round hole" Flacco can't complete passes when WR's are not getting open or seperation. He does not like to force the ball. Watch some tape on Flacco and then come back and discuss his skill level. His inabilities fall into the hands of a horrible scheme and ancient system. Like at the facts. Audibles are over ratted, WR's run their assigned route and do not deviat (watch Boldin in AZ, how was he so effective, he ran to the open areas of the field and made DB's pay when he got going) It is frustrating to us on the couch, how do you think he fells when asked to do the same thing over and over and over again. Fanatic posted some great videos of Flacco in college.
Flacco has some bad games it happens, but the inability to try every thing in the arsenal or go to the running game in those situations is just another major flaw that Cam has.

You can attribute that to almost EVERY quarterback that has ever played the position.

[b-more_4_Life]

Joe's passer rating outside the numbers: 65.1

Joe's passer rating inside the numbers: 105.2

I checked 5 other QBs and NOBODY has a disparity as stark as that. Some have higher ratings throwing to the right than to the left, etc. but NOBODY is a 40 point split like that. (Just an FYI, for Joe there's no other significant disparity based on part of the field--it's the same left vs. right on all counts.)

220 throws outside the numbers, 206 inside the numbers. None of the QBs I checked had thrown over 50% outside the numbers, either.

I love looking at statistical splits. They shed a LOT of light onto the nuances of what's really going on. How much more often does it need to be said that Cam Cameron's passing offense is completely out of whack?

POST. OF. THE. YEAR.

Let's all fax this to the Castle ASAP.

Talk about NOT properly utilizing your QB's talents.....

[darthpemo]

Joe's passer rating outside the numbers: 65.1

Joe's passer rating inside the numbers: 105.2

I checked 5 other QBs and NOBODY has a disparity as stark as that. Some have higher ratings throwing to the right than to the left, etc. but NOBODY is a 40 point split like that. (Just an FYI, for Joe there's no other significant disparity based on part of the field--it's the same left vs. right on all counts.)

220 throws outside the numbers, 206 inside the numbers. None of the QBs I checked had thrown over 50% outside the numbers, either.

I love looking at statistical splits. They shed a LOT of light onto the nuances of what's really going on. How much more often does it need to be said that Cam Cameron's passing offense is completely out of whack?

Out of curiosity, do you have the numbers in such a way to plot year over year? It'd be very interesting to see the trends - number of attempts, completion percentage etc... year over year.

[Ravenswintitle]

are a lot of those 'inside the numbers' passes just dump offs? that may be a big part of it because they don't run many crossing routes

[wickedsolo]

are a lot of those 'inside the numbers' passes just dump offs? that may be a big part of it because they don't run many crossing routes

Also an interesting perspective.

[Dirt1]

POST. OF. THE. YEAR.

Let's all fax this to the Castle ASAP.

Talk about NOT properly utilizing your QB's talents.....

Out of curiosity, I wonder how many of those passes inside the numbers were check down passes and screens. Those are usually very high percentage throws. The Ravens usually don't throw deep passes in the middle of the field. That is where a TE with speed would attack a defense, but Dickson has been hurt/ineffective and Pitta lacks the speed to run those routes.

[wickedsolo]

Out of curiosity, I wonder how many of those passes inside the numbers were check down passes and screens. Those are usually very high percentage throws. The Ravens usually don't throw deep passes in the middle of the field. That is where a TE with speed would attack a defense, but Dickson has been hurt/ineffective and Pitta lacks the speed to run those routes.

Not that I really disagree with you, but Pitta and Dickson virtually ran the same 40-time at the combine...

[Kevlar]

Not that I really disagree with you, but Pitta and Dickson virtually ran the same 40-time at the combine...

A little stereotyping in that post?

[NCRAVEN]

A little stereotyping in that post?

No, that's factual, they ran close to the exact same time...

[Cj34]

Not that I really disagree with you, but Pitta and Dickson virtually ran the same 40-time at the combine...

Dickson was actually a full tenth faster in the 40 at the combine. Doesn't sound like much but .10 in a 40 is a fairly substancial amount. However Pitta did test much faster on the shuttle and three cone which would project better lateral agility and potential route running.

http://nflcombineresults.com/playerp...Dickson&i=8475

http://nflcombineresults.com/playerp...l=Pitta&i=8604

[Dirt1]

I did not intend to sterotype Dickson and Pitta at all. I just don't see Pitta being able to outrun LBs and get deep. Timmons was all over Pitta in the Steelers games, and the times that I have seen the Ravens run deep patters to the TEs, they have thrown the ball to Dickson. They seem to throw more underneath passes (possession passes) to Pitta (like they do with Boldin) and more deeper routes to Dickson (like they do with Torrey Smith).

[bmorecareful]

Out of curiosity, do you have the numbers in such a way to plot year over year? It'd be very interesting to see the trends - number of attempts, completion percentage etc... year over year.

See for yourself. http://www.profootballweekly.com/pla...216342/splits/

Just go back to previous years. In 2011 he was more even although still better inside than outside the numbers. In 2010 he was 20+ points better inside than outside, not as extreme of a split. In 2009 he was WAY better throwing left, mediocre throwing middle, and not very good throwing right, but again not by as extreme a split. In 2008 he was again more even overall.

Not sure what the meaningful data to take away from prior years is.

are a lot of those 'inside the numbers' passes just dump offs? that may be a big part of it because they don't run many crossing routes

Not sure if you're trolling, but he's averaging almost 9 yards per attempt inside the numbers, so no, they're not "just dump offs". These stats include ALL passes thrown inside the numbers, including deep balls like the post and deep seam routes, which Flacco appears to hit at a much better clip to that area of the field rather than your true "go" routes straight up the sideline.

He's averaging 5.6 YPA outside the numbers. The huge disparity in YPA is a big reason why the passer rating is so much higher, as is completion percentage. Joe's near 75% inside the numbers vs. about 45% outside the numbers.

The question is, what do these numbers mean? I think they're an indictment of this offense's refusal to consistently attack the middle of the field where they have the potential to be extremely successful. I don't think Joe is just somehow magically way better passing to the middle of the field than the sidelines, I think it's a scheme issue.

[Paintballguy]

See for yourself. http://www.profootballweekly.com/pla...216342/splits/

Just go back to previous years. In 2011 he was more even although still better inside than outside the numbers. In 2010 he was 20+ points better inside than outside, not as extreme of a split. In 2009 he was WAY better throwing left, mediocre throwing middle, and not very good throwing right, but again not by as extreme a split. In 2008 he was again more even overall.

Not sure what the meaningful data to take away from prior years is.



Not sure if you're trolling, but he's averaging almost 9 yards per attempt inside the numbers, so no, they're not "just dump offs". These stats include ALL passes thrown inside the numbers, including deep balls like the post and deep seam routes, which Flacco appears to hit at a much better clip to that area of the field rather than your true "go" routes straight up the sideline.

He's averaging 5.6 YPA outside the numbers. The huge disparity in YPA is a big reason why the passer rating is so much higher, as is completion percentage. Joe's near 75% inside the numbers vs. about 45% outside the numbers.

The question is, what do these numbers mean? I think they're an indictment of this offense's refusal to consistently attack the middle of the field where they have the potential to be extremely successful. I don't think Joe is just somehow magically way better passing to the middle of the field than the sidelines, I think it's a scheme issue.

It's mind boggling how Cam just ignores the middle of the field. I don't get it. I'd love for someone to ask Harbaugh or Cam about how they use the middle of the field.

[rharris1986]

Let's see! Mmmmmmmm.....!

Dickson's faster but can't catch

Pitta's slower but can catch

I wonder which guy I'd rather have? Seems like a big dilemma to me!

Dickson was actually a full tenth faster in the 40 at the combine. Doesn't sound like much but .10 in a 40 is a fairly substancial amount. However Pitta did test much faster on the shuttle and three cone which would project better lateral agility and potential route running.

http://nflcombineresults.com/playerp...Dickson&i=8475

http://nflcombineresults.com/playerp...l=Pitta&i=8604

[iggyman555]

Let's see! Mmmmmmmm.....!

Dickson's faster but can't catch

Pitta's slower but can catch

I wonder which guy I'd rather have? Seems like a big dilemma to me!

gronkowski

[BigPlayReceiver]

See for yourself. http://www.profootballweekly.com/pla...216342/splits/

Just go back to previous years. In 2011 he was more even although still better inside than outside the numbers. In 2010 he was 20+ points better inside than outside, not as extreme of a split. In 2009 he was WAY better throwing left, mediocre throwing middle, and not very good throwing right, but again not by as extreme a split. In 2008 he was again more even overall.

Not sure what the meaningful data to take away from prior years is.



Not sure if you're trolling, but he's averaging almost 9 yards per attempt inside the numbers, so no, they're not "just dump offs". These stats include ALL passes thrown inside the numbers, including deep balls like the post and deep seam routes, which Flacco appears to hit at a much better clip to that area of the field rather than your true "go" routes straight up the sideline.

He's averaging 5.6 YPA outside the numbers. The huge disparity in YPA is a big reason why the passer rating is so much higher, as is completion percentage. Joe's near 75% inside the numbers vs. about 45% outside the numbers.

The question is, what do these numbers mean? I think they're an indictment of this offense's refusal to consistently attack the middle of the field where they have the potential to be extremely successful. I don't think Joe is just somehow magically way better passing to the middle of the field than the sidelines, I think it's a scheme issue.

Exploring this a bit more...Joe's between the numbers (BTN) breakdown:

BTN 9 yards or less: 101 attempts, 96.7 efficiency, 849 yards
BTN 10-19 yards: 30 attempts, 125.3 efficiency, 367 yards
BTN 20 or more yards: 24 attempts, 128.5 efficiency, 341 yards.

Completions to Ray and Dennis do represent a good portion of Joe's excellent middle efficiency, and Boldin represents another portion. In the "BTN 9 yards or less" zone, all three guys together are 53/66 for 526 yards, and 1 INT. That's 93.6 efficiency. Adding in Torrey's numbers gets you a total of 63/78 for 692 yards, 1 TD and 2 INTs. That's 97.2 efficiency.


Looking at Torrey in the "BTN 9 yards or less zone"...with 7 fewer receptions than Boldin (10 vs. 17), Torrey has only 1 less yard receiving. This seems to qualify the repeated thought around here that Torrey's speed directly (i.e., separation) and/or indirectly (i.e., earning a big pre-snap cushion) has much greater value (compared to Boldin) inside the numbers. I say "seems" due to the small sample set.

Editing this in: And on those 10 fewer receptions...Torrey has +31 YAC compared to Boldin. Last year, with 4 fewer catches (11 vs. 15) in the same "BTN 9 yards or less" zone, Torrey had +47 YAC compared to Boldin.


Note: For the yardage categories above, it's how far the ball traveled in the air.
Note 2: All stats from PFF.com

[rharris1986]

Wasn't that the year that Ozzie didn't trade up and the Patriots jumped up over us to get Gronkowski - and then Ozzie traded back and we got Kindle. Now there was a genius move! Maybe I got my drafts mixed up - but all I remember is that we cheaped it out. No matter we'd have Gronkowski blocking while we throw (or should I say overthrow) 9 routes.

gronkowski

[BigPlayReceiver]

Wasn't that the year that Ozzie didn't trade up and the Patriots jumped up over us to get Gronkowski - and then Ozzie traded back and we got Kindle. Now there was a genius move! Maybe I got my drafts mixed up - but all I remember is that we cheaped it out. No matter we'd have Gronkowski blocking while we throw (or should I say overthrow) 9 routes.

Get a grip man. We had no ammo to move up as a result of the Boldin trade.

The only talent-based misjudgment that draft was taking Dickson over Hernandez and Graham.

[The Fanatic]

It's truly amazing to me that a bunch of guys (fans) on the internet can go out and research these numbers, film, etc. and lay out factual proof that what Cam is doing (rather attempting to do) completely goes against the grain of our players' talent and skills, not to mention the high risk low percentage results that come with what he's trying to do.

Couple that with your best offensive play maker being forgotten about from time to time and a struggling (and injured) defense that you want to keep off the field as much as possible.

How in the hell can a bunch of arm chair QBs see and understand what's wrong, but the people getting paid big bucks to figure this stuff out and implement corrections can't?

Earlier today Davis & Norris had Keion Carpenter on for an interview and were asking him about what he thought about what is taking place here.
As a former NFL DB he said playing against this offense is by far the easiest to defend.
Very predictable with no deception.
Easy to play off the line because the film shows you everything including tendencies which in his eyes we have way too many that occur continually with little wavering.
He said that if he can see it just by watching some Ravens games here and there when he gets them on TV down in Atlanta, then he damn sure knows every coach and player having to game plan against them sees it.

Brilliant!!!

[wickedsolo]

Get a grip man. We had no ammo to move up as a result of the Boldin trade.

The only talent-based misjudgment that draft was taking Dickson over Hernandez and Graham.

And several of us really wanted Graham and Hernandez.

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