Fire cam

[wickedsolo]

Players have come and gone. But we still see the same results! WHO DO YOU BLAME?????? Coaching! As of right now they are all to blame. But so is the GM and Owner for letting it to continue! PERIOD!

This is a good point. We were talking about how none of the receivers could get open 2 and 3 years ago.


...hmmm....I wonder why...

[wickedsolo]

Ray Rice didn't touch the ball in the 4th quarter.

A lot of that is because the defense couldn't get off the field.

[wickedsolo]

Some observations -

They only utilize half the field. They will only throw outside the hashes unless forced to.

They only utilize half the routes on the receiver tree. The very first drive of the game (I think Joe may have audibled but Im not 100% sure) Joe threw a slant to Bolden. It worked beautifully. Guess what? It was the only slant of the game. No comeback routes. No posts. No corner routes. No drags. No rub routes. Nothing. I don't understand how people can bitch about the receivers not getting seperation. If the defense knows you're only gonna run one of four routes and it's always going to be to the outside it's easy for them to gameplan against. Heck, they have an extra defender every time because of the sideline.

We make no adjustments during the second half, which is a pattern that has been going on too long.

Harbs make a bonehead challenge and burns a timeout. That may or may not be on him depending on what the coaches said from the booth.

The defense has to find some pressure from somewhere. If they can't find it from base defense then Pees is going to have to blitz more. I would rather get burned being agressive then bleed a slow death. At least being agressive you have more of a chance for takeaways. Hopefully he can disguise the blitzes well and not show it 3 seconds before the ball is snapped.

Here are four changes that imo the Ravens HAVE to make this offseason unless things drastically change:

#1 - They need to get a very good, reliable pass rusher to compliment Suggs whether or not Kruger comes back. It can be through the draft or free agency but the future success of the defense depends on it.

#2 - Moeller needs to be fired. They need a new O-line coach with a new system because Moeller is not getting it done. You add that up to his embarassing actions off the field and I have no idea how the guy is still employed by the Ravens.

#3 - The Cam/Joe decision. Let's face it, regardless of who you think the blame falls on the bottomline is I think the ship has sailed on these two working together in the future. Either you cut bait with Flacco and let him walk if you don't want to commit the money to him or you tell Harbs that Cam has to go and find your next OC. In a perfect world this would have happened a year ago so the Ravens could have evaluated Joe in a different system (to see if it was Cam's fault, Joe's fault, or both of their faults) before giving him a new deal.

#4 - The front office needs to evaluate the entire coaching staff. If the rumours are true about Cam wanting to run a no huddle offense and Harbs putting a stop to it, all for the sake of being conservative, then Ozzie and Bisciotti have to make a front offense decision and either let Cam go and/or to tell Harbs this team needs to be more agressive and play to win - don't play to not lose. Imo that mentality is one of the main reasons why this team is consistently good...but also why they consistently fails to reach the SB. Whether or not Cam is brought back the front office still needs to tell the coaching staff to play to win.

Cutting bait with Flacco would be the equivalent of San Diego letting Drew Brees go. Except Flacco hasn't torn his throwing shoulder. And the Ravens don't have a top QB pick waiting in the wings (a la Phillip Rivers).

I bet if Flacco were to go to another team with a better offensive scheme he might actually win a SB. It's not going to happen here in Baltimore with Cam.

[Paintballguy]

A lot of that is because the defense couldn't get off the field.

I'm not absolving the defense of any wrongdoing because they allowed the Steelers to just walk down the field on them, but you can't tell me that Rice got the ball enough. Rice needs to see at least 25 touches.

[Cj34]

---

Cutting bait with Flacco would be the equivalent of San Diego letting Drew Brees go. Except Flacco hasn't torn his throwing shoulder. And the Ravens don't have a top QB pick waiting in the wings (a la Phillip Rivers).

I bet if Flacco were to go to another team with a better offensive scheme he might actually win a SB. It's not going to happen here in Baltimore with Cam.

Let me stress that it's not my opinion to cut bait with Flacco, only that the Ravens need to makes a choice between Joe and Cam. They can either keep Joe and get rid of Cam or vice versa. My personal opinion is to get rid of Cam and put Joe in a new system but obviously I'm not Ozzie or Bisciotti.

[Paintballguy]

---

My personal opinion is to get rid of Cam and put Joe in a new system but obviously I'm not Ozzie or Bisciotti.

This is what needs to happen. They need to bring in a new offensive coordinator that runs an offense from this decade.

[JohnBKistler]

Not a fan of Cam, and he certainly didn't do a ton to help, but when you have a QB that was jittery all game and missed a ton of throws, I don't know how much you can expect....I'm honestly shocked Joe played like he did.

I am not that good at telling if the offense had a good game plan or not, but I do know that was one of Flacco's worst home performances in a long time. He missed several wide open receivers, he had some poor throws, and you just cannot turn the ball over late in the game on your own 27.

Simply put, the team lacked energy and was unprepared in a big game.

I thought the entire stadium lacked energy. For a Ravens/Steeler game, I thought the crowd was pathetic. I was there, so I will own up to my part.

Flacco underthrew Torrey on deep balls where he had his man beat at least 3 times...whether he caught it or not may be up for debate.

Not sure if it was an underthrowing, or if Flacco just didn't get the ball out quicker. Flacco seemed slow in his reads and throws.

Cam gave up 300 yards to Charlie B-atch, fire his ass

The fact of the matter is, the Steelers should have scored 2 more TDs.

[rharris1986]

Cutting bait with Flacco would be the equivalent of San Diego letting Drew Brees go. Except Flacco hasn't torn his throwing shoulder. And the Ravens don't have a top QB pick waiting in the wings (a la Phillip Rivers).

I bet if Flacco were to go to another team with a better offensive scheme he might actually win a SB. It's not going to happen here in Baltimore with Cam.

[rharris1986]

We all agree he needs to go.

WHAT WILL IT TAKE TO GET RID OF HIM - SERIOUSLY?

[B-more Ravor]

Oh no...at least in the first half, he was high on quite a few short passes.

And he underthrew Torrey on deep balls where he had his man beat at least 3 times...whether he caught it or not may be up for debate.

He was constantly throwing off his back foot and thus putting too much air under his throws. He was doing this even when he wasn't pressured. Had he used good mechanics and stepped into his throws, those would have been much better throws and not under throws.

[Rxdoxx]

Yes Joe was high on some passes.... have to get the ball over the underneath man.
Hey diddle diddle run the out not the middle.
Mattison could have done the same to Cam's offense, especially not having to defend part of the field.

But I will say that Can is a genius.... He has to be to get and hold onto a job.
And he does make adjustments.... He adjusted Jim Zorn, more testimony to his genius < end sarcasm>

I am so freaking tired of hearing "lack of execution"
Draw up a game plan that your players are more capable of executing! The armchair analysts (myself included) are screaming to use the middle of the field .... don't you know that Leach can catch the ball? Did you ever consider that he would be wide open underneath once he barrels through the line? Others have covered a number of plays that Cam doesn't seem to know how to work into a highly executable game plan. Of course it is always going to be lack of execution and NEVER The great Cam's fault .... remember the 1-15 record of Miami? It was he didn't have the players!!!! Not his game plan fault.. not ever Cam's fault... the man is a freaking genius at ducking responsibility.



@Ravininwoodlawn, I also noticed Ed jumping routes and then scrambling to get back to the open guy behind him.

One more reason why the Yellows won, time of possession!
Our O had 25:39 our D was on the field for 34:21 .... things like that tire a pass rush/secondary out in the 4th Q....
so one more reason that Malcolm "Typhoid Mary" Cameron is also the most dangerous person to our D and nobody suspects...

Note to Steve Bisciotti, hope you have a plan to undo the damage being done by holding onto Cam instead of Zorn. All you will see on boards like this is anger and frustration, what you won't see is the outlying growing indifference, I'm on other forums where the Ravens are no longer mentioned at all and the Redskins have also stopped being discussed (Orakpo/Carriker injuries) But we are not talking about die-hard fans, just casual fans and Typhoid Cam is damaging the general buzz for sure.

[HoustonRaven]

He was constantly throwing off his back foot and thus putting too much air under his throws. He was doing this even when he wasn't pressured. Had he used good mechanics and stepped into his throws, those would have been much better throws and not under throws.

Agreed.

It was evident for me on his first pass to Torrey.

And I'm pretty sure I remember a dirt ball to start the second half.

On a side note, I'm getting awfully tired of folks making this an either / or debate For some odd reason, if you point out the very specific player failures in this game, you're now somehow pro-Cam and think he's the greatest thing since the frozen pizza.

[wickedsolo]

Agreed.

It was evident for me on his first pass to Torrey.

And I'm pretty sure I remember a dirt ball to start the second half.

On a side note, I'm getting awfully tired of folks making this an either / or debate For some odd reason, if you point out the very specific player failures in this game, you're now somehow pro-Cam and think he's the greatest thing since the frozen pizza.

He was constantly throwing off his back foot and thus putting too much air under his throws. He was doing this even when he wasn't pressured. Had he used good mechanics and stepped into his throws, those would have been much better throws and not under throws.

I have noticed the past few weeks he has been doing that a lot lately.

Not sure why, but you'd think they would be addressing that during the week.

[NCRAVEN]

I have noticed the past few weeks he has been doing that a lot lately.

Not sure why, but you'd think they would be addressing that during the week.

Probably a habit from Matt Birk getting steam rolled.

[bmorecareful]

I have noticed the past few weeks he has been doing that a lot lately.

Not sure why, but you'd think they would be addressing that during the week.

Joe had a lot of problems in 2010 with throwing off his back foot as well, not so much last year. In week 2 of 2010 where Joe threw 4 INTs, he was literally throwing every single pass off his back foot, not stepping into his throws.

I hate to descend into a psuedo-sports-psychology debate, but Joe is a passer who needs to be comfortable. Some of the mouth-breathers who hear me say that will throw down their can of Four Loco and scream that means he has no balls, but whatever, it's true--Joe and a lot of other QBs (Tom Brady, Peyton Manning, etc.) play badly when they don't feel comfortable in the pocket.

Flacco needs to get a few completions to heat up, and when he's sensing pressure and losing confidence in his WRs he starts airmailing balls hoping for PIs, overthrowing the long ball to avoid INTs, etc. If that's the kind of QB he is, fine, so be it--you have to scheme to GET him comfortable and THEN start asking him to make the big throws.

We KNOW Flacco feels more confident out of the no-huddle. We could have gone into the no-huddle coming out of the 2nd half after Pittsburgh scored 10 consecutive points to tie it up, let Flacco get hot and see if he can take the game over. Instead, we didn't run a single no-huddle play (only ONE the entire game.)

[Paintballguy]

Joe had a lot of problems in 2010 with throwing off his back foot as well, not so much last year. In week 2 of 2010 where Joe threw 4 INTs, he was literally throwing every single pass off his back foot, not stepping into his throws.

I hate to descend into a psuedo-sports-psychology debate, but Joe is a passer who needs to be comfortable. Some of the mouth-breathers who hear me say that will throw down their can of Four Loco and scream that means he has no balls, but whatever, it's true--Joe and a lot of other QBs (Tom Brady, Peyton Manning, etc.) play badly when they don't feel comfortable in the pocket.

Flacco needs to get a few completions to heat up, and when he's sensing pressure and losing confidence in his WRs he starts airmailing balls hoping for PIs, overthrowing the long ball to avoid INTs, etc. If that's the kind of QB he is, fine, so be it--you have to scheme to GET him comfortable and THEN start asking him to make the big throws.

We KNOW Flacco feels more confident out of the no-huddle. We could have gone into the no-huddle coming out of the 2nd half after Pittsburgh scored 10 consecutive points to tie it up, let Flacco get hot and see if he can take the game over. Instead, we didn't run a single no-huddle play (only ONE the entire game.)

I agree with this post 100%. Joe seems to be a rhythm QB. The same could be said for any QB really. Cam does Joe no favors in the way he calls plays. Why can't Cam dial up some easy completions then work in some deep shots?

[wickedsolo]

Joe had a lot of problems in 2010 with throwing off his back foot as well, not so much last year. In week 2 of 2010 where Joe threw 4 INTs, he was literally throwing every single pass off his back foot, not stepping into his throws.

I hate to descend into a psuedo-sports-psychology debate, but Joe is a passer who needs to be comfortable. Some of the mouth-breathers who hear me say that will throw down their can of Four Loco and scream that means he has no balls, but whatever, it's true--Joe and a lot of other QBs (Tom Brady, Peyton Manning, etc.) play badly when they don't feel comfortable in the pocket.

Flacco needs to get a few completions to heat up, and when he's sensing pressure and losing confidence in his WRs he starts airmailing balls hoping for PIs, overthrowing the long ball to avoid INTs, etc. If that's the kind of QB he is, fine, so be it--you have to scheme to GET him comfortable and THEN start asking him to make the big throws.

We KNOW Flacco feels more confident out of the no-huddle. We could have gone into the no-huddle coming out of the 2nd half after Pittsburgh scored 10 consecutive points to tie it up, let Flacco get hot and see if he can take the game over. Instead, we didn't run a single no-huddle play (only ONE the entire game.)

[The Fanatic]

Alot of interesting comments and points on this thread.

Guess I'll add my .02.

All this talk about the short comings of Flaccos ability to make certain throws, holding the ball too long, not being able to read defenses and find the open man, no pocket presence, no mobility, etc., etc. etc.
We've all seen it on various threads every week over the past 5 years.

All this talk about Cams offense being outdated, not enough routes and route combinations, receivers unable to get separation, no throws over the middle, no seam routes, no crossing routes or misdirection, curl or come back routes, etc. etc., etc.

Nothing but 9 and fly routes outside the hash marks with the occasional check down to Rice, etc.

Watch This

And

Watch This

Somehow I doubt very seriously that Joe Flacco just forgot how to do alot of the stuff you just saw in those videos.

Now watch THIS

All of the sudden Dennis Pitta forgot how to get open and play Tight End?

Let's look at Torrey Smith

Dude can only run 9 and fly routes, right?

Who's This Dude?

Dude looks like he has a few skills, knows how to find the soft spots in coverage, isn't afraid to go in the middle and has pretty damn good speed?

Certainly isn't the biggest guy to play wideout, but there's more then a few smaller guys playing wideout in the NFL that are huge play makers for their team that actually have coaches willing to utilize they're abilitys to have a productive offense and win games.


I could go on and continue to debate as to whether or not Flaccos short comings are the problem, or whether or not we don't have enough offensive talent to be more less predictable, or whether the offensive line completely blows, etc.

You ask me, this ain't freakin' rocket science!!!

As mentioned earlier in this and many threads, there is a history and track record with Cam Cameron, the QBS and offensive talent he has had to work with, and the success that many of those players have had once Cam moved on.

Certainly we have some success in spurts depending on who we're playing and what that opposing teams talent level is, and occasionally get lucky with a huge play here and there to capture the win, but is this acceptable?

Sorry, but I've seen too many football games in my life being played by teams with much less talent then ours across the board (QBs, WRs, O-line, etc.) look like jaugernauts (sp?) compared to what we look like more often then not.

Regardless of who we have on the field, and who we add or subtract, the shit looks the same week in and week out, year in and year out.

Ain't no secret here fellas, it's out there somewhere....that stat that says when Ray Rice touches or carrys the ball more then 25 times a game, we win somewhere just short of 100% of the time.

How many times do we have to see close games being played where the offense doesn't need to be one dimensional forcing us to try and play catch up by abandoning the run, only to do just that?

Flat out, no doubt in my mind what so ever..... we will never progress offensively to a consistent unpredictable offense that will win you any Championships with Cam Cameron running this offense.

By the grace of God we may get lucky and pull a fluke from time to time, but is that what we want this team to hang its hat on?

FUCK THAT!!!

We will never have the answer to Flaccos and this units talent short comings (if they're actually there to begin with) until a change is made in how these guys are used and coached.

Not sure who to replace him with, but somebody somewhere is out there every year.

Cam needs to go at the end of this year!!

And if Harbaugh can't man up and do it, or is too stupid or stubborn to see it or do it, then his ass can go too!!!


Gentleman (and ladies)......carry on.

[NCRAVEN]

[HoustonRaven]

The Fanatic wins the interwebs.

That post need a love button.