Fire cam

[darthpemo]

Alot of interesting comments and points on this thread.

Guess I'll add my .02.

All this talk about the short comings of Flaccos ability to make certain throws, holding the ball too long, not being able to read defenses and find the open man, no pocket presence, no mobility, etc., etc. etc.
We've all seen it on various threads every week over the past 5 years.

All this talk about Cams offense being outdated, not enough routes and route combinations, receivers unable to get separation, no throws over the middle, no seam routes, no crossing routes or misdirection, curl or come back routes, etc. etc., etc.

Nothing but 9 and fly routes outside the hash marks with the occasional check down to Rice, etc.

Watch This

And

Excerpted to not spam.

Loved this. Thank you.

Here's another guy that doesn't succeed in our system.... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n0eWq2UZu88

[darthpemo]

It is probably time for Harbaugh to go - he doesn't seem to realize Cam is a problem.

Don't know your X's and O's - time to go.

[rharris1986]

Cam has had

Brees for four (4) years, and
Rivers for one (1) year, and
Flacco for five (5) years, and

has produced TEN (10) YEARS of CONSISTENTLY MEDIOCRE OFFENSIVE FOOTBALL.

What more do you need to know about the guy. Brees and Rivers are the lucky ones - he's only a distant nightmare in their dreams. However, he's like Joe's Freddy Kruger!

[Sturg530]

Get him out of here! One he was out of the picture Brees and Rivers both exploded! We need a new scheme! To many weapons to look as poor as we do on offense. Does cam know what crossing routes are or even how to use the middle of the field? I've had enough. We will never get a Super Bowl with him at OC, we are just too predictable with him running the offense.

http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/f...the/signatures

[iggyman555]

Excerpted to not spam.

Loved this. Thank you.

Here's another guy that doesn't succeed in our system.... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n0eWq2UZu88

lol thats so sick i actually saw joe step in the pocket, fukin cam ruined the dude last 5 years

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZxW_RdJjtos

[Raveninwoodlawn]

My only .02 cents here...

I really pay no attention to those complaining about Cams play calls. ALL OC's call plays that don't work and plays that don't mesh with the flow of the game at times.

It's his PHILOSOPHY that IMHO, just doesn't mesh for today's NFL.

It's an offense based on the ancient Raiders offense...run the ball down your throat and throw it over your head. It's the Al Davis offense.

In today's NFL, that just doesn't lend itself to consistent NFL football. Back in the 70's and early 80's, that offense worked because defenses played a lot of man based schemes, or schemes with single high safeties. Today, there is a ton of Tampa Cover 2...or even man with 2 deep safeties and those defenses don't lend themselves to deep plays. They force offenses to take what they can and force them to go 80 yards without any big plays...and wait for offenses to make mistakes.

So if you are mistake prone, AND you like to chuck it deep 10+ times a game...by design and not necessarily because they are open, it lends itself to a bunch of inconsistent offense if you aren't hitting those deep balls.

I mean it's clear...when we are hitting those deep passes, few things look prettier than our offense.

But when Joe is off, or the WR's aren't making those deep receptions or the OL isn't giving time for those plays to develop, you get what we have...an offense that is stagnant, inconsistent, and shoots itself in the foot way too much.

The other top passing offenses are designed to get the ball out of the QB's hands quick and the QB's are drilled to get rid of the ball asap on 3 step and a few 5 step drops. Their offensive lines don't have to block as long. Their WR's have quick routes that allow them to get the ball in space. The QB doesn't have to hold the ball making long reads way down the field. So basically, the OL doesn't have to be all that good...it limits the amount of double teams on WR's...and the QB makes a lot of easier, high percentage throws that move the chains.

[NCRAVEN]

Great post RIW.

[wickedsolo]

Lots of good posts in here.

[JohnBKistler]

The other top passing offenses are designed to get the ball out of the QB's hands quick and the QB's are drilled to get rid of the ball asap on 3 step and a few 5 step drops. Their offensive lines don't have to block as long. Their WR's have quick routes that allow them to get the ball in space. The QB doesn't have to hold the ball making long reads way down the field. So basically, the OL doesn't have to be all that good...it limits the amount of double teams on WR's...and the QB makes a lot of easier, high percentage throws that move the chains.

Really good points....I will touch on this last one. Personally, I am not convinced that Flacco can be that quick read/react QB. I don't think Harbaugh and Cameron are convinced either. Maybe with good reason.

I do think the Ravens need to find out before they pay Flacco his big payday. And while I am somewhat hopeful that the next few months will tell us a lot about what kind of QB Flacco is or isn't. I think they really need to see what another OC could do (most likely Caldwell) next season.

[Paintballguy]

My only .02 cents here...

I really pay no attention to those complaining about Cams play calls. ALL OC's call plays that don't work and plays that don't mesh with the flow of the game at times.

It's his PHILOSOPHY that IMHO, just doesn't mesh for today's NFL.

It's an offense based on the ancient Raiders offense...run the ball down your throat and throw it over your head. It's the Al Davis offense.

In today's NFL, that just doesn't lend itself to consistent NFL football. Back in the 70's and early 80's, that offense worked because defenses played a lot of man based schemes, or schemes with single high safeties. Today, there is a ton of Tampa Cover 2...or even man with 2 deep safeties and those defenses don't lend themselves to deep plays. They force offenses to take what they can and force them to go 80 yards without any big plays...and wait for offenses to make mistakes.

So if you are mistake prone, AND you like to chuck it deep 10+ times a game...by design and not necessarily because they are open, it lends itself to a bunch of inconsistent offense if you aren't hitting those deep balls.

I mean it's clear...when we are hitting those deep passes, few things look prettier than our offense.

But when Joe is off, or the WR's aren't making those deep receptions or the OL isn't giving time for those plays to develop, you get what we have...an offense that is stagnant, inconsistent, and shoots itself in the foot way too much.

The other top passing offenses are designed to get the ball out of the QB's hands quick and the QB's are drilled to get rid of the ball asap on 3 step and a few 5 step drops. Their offensive lines don't have to block as long. Their WR's have quick routes that allow them to get the ball in space. The QB doesn't have to hold the ball making long reads way down the field. So basically, the OL doesn't have to be all that good...it limits the amount of double teams on WR's...and the QB makes a lot of easier, high percentage throws that move the chains.

5 star post. If Flacco hits on those deep passes, the offense looks better, but those passes are so low percentage. It's just stupid to have to rely on those low percentage plays to be successful.

Really good points....I will touch on this last one. Personally, I am not convinced that Flacco can be that quick read/react QB. I don't think Harbaugh and Cameron are convinced either. Maybe with good reason.

I do think the Ravens need to find out before they pay Flacco his big payday. And while I am somewhat hopeful that the next few months will tell us a lot about what kind of QB Flacco is or isn't. I think they really need to see what another OC could do (most likely Caldwell) next season.

I think Flacco can be if they ran routes which were predicated on a quick 3 or 5 stop drop. Cam intends on running these 15+ yard long developing routes which forces Flacco to hold the ball to wait for a receiver to get open.

[wickedsolo]

Really good points....I will touch on this last one. Personally, I am not convinced that Flacco can be that quick read/react QB. I don't think Harbaugh and Cameron are convinced either. Maybe with good reason.

I do think the Ravens need to find out before they pay Flacco his big payday. And while I am somewhat hopeful that the next few months will tell us a lot about what kind of QB Flacco is or isn't. I think they really need to see what another OC could do (most likely Caldwell) next season.

It is possible, but he's done it before. In particular, the Bengals game this year and the Patriots game in the AFCCG last year.

The way I see it is that Flacco's best throws are come backs and out patterns. Back shoulder throws are REALLY difficult to get right, so I'm not surprised that he isn't there with those yet, BUT he has shown that he can run those as well.

Again though, it's all for not because we don't have a clue how he'd operate in a modern offense.

I'd love to see Flacco in an offense like the Saints run or even like the Texans run because I think he could function in that type of an offense.

[HoustonRaven]

Agree with RiW and I'd add that Cam does not run a true Coryell offense, because of the reasons he mentions.

I truly believe that with the talent we have, combined with an OC like Norv, this would be an explosive offense. Alas, we have a patch work set of plays that's being called a system.

[Justlovemybirds]

Really good points....I will touch on this last one. Personally, I am not convinced that Flacco can be that quick read/react QB. I don't think Harbaugh and Cameron are convinced either. Maybe with good reason.

I do think the Ravens need to find out before they pay Flacco his big payday. And while I am somewhat hopeful that the next few months will tell us a lot about what kind of QB Flacco is or isn't. I think they really need to see what another OC could do (most likely Caldwell) next season.

Interesting enough, Flacco's first few years in the league the opinion was that he'd be better off in an offense that forced him to get the ball as soon as possible instead making him drop back and read defenses (which is what he seemed to struggle at).

[bmorecareful]

Joe's passer rating outside the numbers: 65.1

Joe's passer rating inside the numbers: 105.2

I checked 5 other QBs and NOBODY has a disparity as stark as that. Some have higher ratings throwing to the right than to the left, etc. but NOBODY is a 40 point split like that. (Just an FYI, for Joe there's no other significant disparity based on part of the field--it's the same left vs. right on all counts.)

220 throws outside the numbers, 206 inside the numbers. None of the QBs I checked had thrown over 50% outside the numbers, either.

I love looking at statistical splits. They shed a LOT of light onto the nuances of what's really going on. How much more often does it need to be said that Cam Cameron's passing offense is completely out of whack?

[Jsmoove]

On another note to add to Raveninwoodland post (great post btw), the speed of the game is ridiculous these days, guys back in the 60's 70's and 80's are no where near as fast as guys are now, this croyell just doesn't do well with the speed of the game. You have corners covering a lot of ground and Linemen and Lbs running 40's in the 4's those long ass routes don't have time to develop.

[wickedsolo]

Joe's passer rating outside the numbers: 65.1

Joe's passer rating inside the numbers: 105.2

I checked 5 other QBs and NOBODY has a disparity as stark as that. Some have higher ratings throwing to the right than to the left, etc. but NOBODY is a 40 point split like that. (Just an FYI, for Joe there's no other significant disparity based on part of the field--it's the same left vs. right on all counts.)

220 throws outside the numbers, 206 inside the numbers. None of the QBs I checked had thrown over 50% outside the numbers, either.

I love looking at statistical splits. They shed a LOT of light onto the nuances of what's really going on. How much more often does it need to be said that Cam Cameron's passing offense is completely out of whack?

That is a really interesting stat.

[Jsmoove]

didn't the FO hire some kinda mathematician stat guru? You would think he would be in Ozzie face with these numbers? we got guys on here pulling numbers left and right to support cam is a moron. What the hell they hire the guy for? to warm the coffee pot?

[Sua Sponte]

I think Flacco has the skill to be a very good QB, but just like we keep saying with Cam "shoving a square peg into a round hole" Flacco can't complete passes when WR's are not getting open or seperation. He does not like to force the ball. Watch some tape on Flacco and then come back and discuss his skill level. His inabilities fall into the hands of a horrible scheme and ancient system. Like at the facts. Audibles are over ratted, WR's run their assigned route and do not deviat (watch Boldin in AZ, how was he so effective, he ran to the open areas of the field and made DB's pay when he got going) It is frustrating to us on the couch, how do you think he fells when asked to do the same thing over and over and over again. Fanatic posted some great videos of Flacco in college.
Flacco has some bad games it happens, but the inability to try every thing in the arsenal or go to the running game in those situations is just another major flaw that Cam has.

[Sua Sponte]

didn't the FO higher some kinda mathematician stat guru? You would think he would be in Ozzie face with these numbers? we got guys on here pulling numbers left and right to support cam is a moron. What the hell they hire the guy for? to warm the coffee pot?

Must have been Harbs buddy

[Raveninwoodlawn]

Let me also say this...I am 110% convinced that Caldwell is NOT the answer as the OC here.