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Thread: Average Joe

  1. #97
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    Re: Average Joe



    Quote Originally Posted by wickedsolo View Post


    It is very easy to point at Flacco right now as the main issue.

    I'd certainly argue that he is AN issue...but not the main one. I mean, just look at all of the issues on offense:

    WR's - continue to drop catchable passes.
    OL - continues to give up far too much pressure and continues to not get enough push in the ground game.
    RB - Rice goes through lulls of having 1 or 2 yard carries.
    TE's - can't block.

    This is Cam's offense. He has his signature on it. Folks who want to jump on Flacco need to also be jumping on Cam and realize that shit rolls down hill.
    Seems like your contradicting your self blaming everyone around Flacco, like none of it is his fault. Flacco shares a large portion of the blame no matter what anyone says, yes the scheme sucks, but you put him in a Sean Payton system, and a lot of those throws are still off target, and he has next to zero pocket poise like Brees. I think Flacco would ultimately look better in a more QB friendly system, but I'm not sure if he'd still be as good as Drew Brees or Aaron Rogers. Flacco takes way too many sacks that he doesn't need to take.




  2. #98
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    Re: Average Joe

    Joe's ceiling is how Matt Shabb is playing right now in Houston. That IMO is a very QB friendly scheme, the Oline gives him ample time, he has an amazing running scheme that would actually help Ray Rice a lot more than the scheme here, because the running game is also as inconsistent as the passing game, and the receivers get plenty of separation down there, it's all about motion, moving pieces, and the offense creates a lot of deception.




  3. #99

    Re: Average Joe

    Quote Originally Posted by wickedsolo View Post
    "Dropped passes" is such a subjective statistic and I really hate that it is. Frankly, if a receiver can get two hands on a pass, then it is catchable and should be caught. If it isn't, then it is a dropped pass. End of story.

    Now, that is just MY opinion and some share that and others don't.

    Last year, several stat trackers had Torrey as only having a handful of drops whereas I had him having a handful of drops in just ONE game.

    The receivers for the Ravens do drop a lot of passes. Hell, Torrey dropped one that hit him in the hands in the end zone. Yet, everyone wants to point a nasty finger at Flacco for overthrowing receivers here and there. What about the OPI Boldin committed when Flacco hit him on a perfectly thrown out on 3rd and I think 11 it was. Because of the penalty it was 3rd and 20 something.

    Bad routes = a small window for Flacco to throw the ball = dropped passes.
    Id agree with pretty much all of the above.

    I really hope this game gets pointed to as a reason to finally get rid of Cam. It probably wont but it should. Perfect example of how it hurts our WRs and makes Flaccos job nearly impossible to be successful. Investing in Flacco isnt as scary as investing in Cam to be OC for Flacco. Flacco has the tools to be successful in this league.
    -JAB




  4. #100

    Re: Average Joe

    Quote Originally Posted by wickedsolo View Post
    It is easy for defensive backs to undercut the routes these receivers are running. Seriously, go back and watch replay of every offensive series and tell me that Flacco had open guys the entire night. If Flacco were to throw the ball to where his receivers were, he'd had probably 20 picks against him right now. These receivers aren't getting open and scheme has a lot to do with it. The sack/strip in particular had Torrey and Jacoby running 9 routes down the field, Boldin and Pitta doing down-n-in routes about 5 yards apart from each other and Rice doing a little bleed out. Literally, NOT ONE receiver/option was open.

    Yes, that play in particular is a prime example of where Joe needs to throw it away. However, I can understand why he didn't. He was trying to wait for someone to get open and Oher just couldn't hold James Harrison down.
    I can accept Joe waiting a bit for a receiver to get open IF the Ravens were down instead of ahead by a td. Instead of Joe taking a coverage sack, keeping possession of the ball and the clock running, he fumbled the ball away
    giving the Steelers great field position.




  5. #101

    Re: Average Joe

    Quote Originally Posted by leachisabeast View Post
    Seems like your contradicting your self blaming everyone around Flacco, like none of it is his fault. Flacco shares a large portion of the blame no matter what anyone says, yes the scheme sucks, but you put him in a Sean Payton system, and a lot of those throws are still off target, and he has next to zero pocket poise like Brees. I think Flacco would ultimately look better in a more QB friendly system, but I'm not sure if he'd still be as good as Drew Brees or Aaron Rogers. Flacco takes way too many sacks that he doesn't need to take.
    Much like how you compare him to Schaub, why does he have to be Rogers or Brees? Schaub is leading his team to an outstanding record and one of the better all around teams in the league. He doesnt have to be elite to be a winning QB and get us to the superbowl. In a better system hed be closer to those elites than "average" or slightly above, that his stats are saying. His ability is better than his stats and thats typically the damning factor for an OC. Theres no question Cam has done less with more than some other teams and there inlies the problem. Much like Ravenous1 said above, judging any of our talent based on their performances in this offense will be skewed.
    -JAB




  6. #102
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    Re: Average Joe

    Quote Originally Posted by leachisabeast View Post
    Seems like your contradicting your self blaming everyone around Flacco, like none of it is his fault. Flacco shares a large portion of the blame no matter what anyone says, yes the scheme sucks, but you put him in a Sean Payton system, and a lot of those throws are still off target, and he has next to zero pocket poise like Brees. I think Flacco would ultimately look better in a more QB friendly system, but I'm not sure if he'd still be as good as Drew Brees or Aaron Rogers. Flacco takes way too many sacks that he doesn't need to take.
    Not really.

    Flacco hasn't been very good, but my point was it isn't all on him, which is what some "fans" would have everyone believe.

    It's easy to point the finger at Flacco and go "BAD!", but when you take a holistic overview of the entire offense then you can kind of start to see the bigger picture. That's my point.
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  7. #103
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    Re: Average Joe

    Quote Originally Posted by JAB1985 View Post
    Much like how you compare him to Schaub, why does he have to be Rogers or Brees? Schaub is leading his team to an outstanding record and one of the better all around teams in the league. He doesnt have to be elite to be a winning QB and get us to the superbowl. In a better system hed be closer to those elites than "average" or slightly above, that his stats are saying. His ability is better than his stats and thats typically the damning factor for an OC. Theres no question Cam has done less with more than some other teams and there inlies the problem. Much like Ravenous1 said above, judging any of our talent based on their performances in this offense will be skewed.
    Matt Schaub also took several years to really develop into a decent QB. Granted, he sat behind Vick for a few years, but he didn't REALLY start developing into a good QB until Gary Kubiak came along.
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  8. #104

    Re: Average Joe

    Regarding the INT targetting Pitta--I went back and re-watched it, and it was definitely an ill-advised pass, but if Pitta doesn't stumble it's just a 6'4 TE guarded by 2 5'11 CBs in a jump ball situation. If Pitta kept his feet, got a little separation, and brought the ball in, we're all talking about "what a gutsy play!" and "what an effort!"

    Remember, Flacco had a similar play against the Steelers in Pittsburgh where he broke away from a sack and threw to Rice for a 30 yard gain... that was a better play and a better situation, but still fairly comparable.

    Peyton Manning had a horrible sack-fumble where he held the ball too long and coughed it up @NWE this year. New England took over at Denver's 20 and promptly punched in a TD. Denver lost the game, but because he's a future HOFer and is otherwise having a great season, it's been forgiven and forgotten. EVERY NFL QB makes horrible mistakes, EVERY NFL QB loses fumbles because he held the ball too long, and SOME NFL QBs get the benefit of the doubt and others don't, usually based on whether they're winning games or not.




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