I think I'm getting burned out...

[Jsmoove]

another note HOW THE FUCK ANDY MOELLER STILL GOT A FUCKING JOB??????

[iggyman555]

another note HOW THE FUCK ANDY MOELLER STILL GOT A FUCKING JOB??????

the guy is a freakin joke, im sure he has nekkid pics of oz and harbage

[Purpleguy]

I've been over this team for a couple years now. I used to post on these boards quite a bit, now I rarely read them. I know we had a thread on one of these boards a few years ago about what we would prefer as fans: a team that went to the playoffs every year, but never won the big one, or a team that would miss the playoffs every now and then, but was always a legit contender at winning it all when they got there. Most fans wanted the team that was streaky, but won the big game. I haven't been a fan of Harbaugh since he was hired. He has been given the most talented Ravens teams ever and squandered our chances. There is a reason this guy has had so much "success", but is never really talked about as one of the best coaches in the league. We are never going to win a Superbowl with John Harbaugh as our coach.

[lobachevsky]

Agreed. There is a reason this team hasn't won the SB or even got there. It's because this team plays not to lose instead of playing to win. They are not aggressive in any of the three facets of the game (O,D or ST). When you play not to lose the margain for error is a LOT smaller. Sooner or later it will catch up to you, especially against good or great teams.

Harbaugh's game philosophy is

• Avoid unnecessary risks at all costs.
• Make no unforced mistakes.
• Take advantage of the opponent's mistakes.

He believes that teams that do these three things win consistently. And many do: Those whose players and/or coaches are as good as or better than their opponents. Because that approach minimizes the chance that an inferior opponent "gets lucky."

Over his first 4 years as Ravens HC, Harbaugh has had the luxury of an overall more talented roster than those of his opponents, so that approach has worked pretty well--it's hard to argue with 4 straight postseason appearances & a dropped pass & missed kick from the Super Bowl.

He no longer has that luxury. In fact it is arguable that this roster is inferior in talent to most of the ones the Ravens have already faced this year & all of those they have yet to face.

Ray Lewis and Ed Reed are on the back end of their careers. Suggs is still recovering his form. Ngata is playing hurt. Cody can't seem to get proper technique for NT play down. Webb is out. Jimmy Smith is always hurt & not playing up to potential. Upshaw is still learning. McPhee has been hurt & is a shadow of last year's promising rookie. Kruger is overmatched against even average OLs.

On offense, Oher & KO are playing out of position, Birk is ready to retire, no one's looking good at left guard, the WRs are dropping passes at an alarming rate, and Joe is Jekyll & Hyde.

As for coaching, the less said the better.

Playing to avoid risk when your coaches are being outthought & your players aren't playing as well as the opponents' is not "coaching not to lose." It is coaching in hopes that you'll catch enough breaks to win.

IMHO, to be honest, unless Harbaugh can overcome his risk aversion between now & the end of the year, catching enough breaks is the only hope they have of winning another game. And if you look back on the year, it's hard to avoid the sinking feeling that they've already used up all the breaks they're entitled to, & more.

[myfavoriteboxer]

This thread's resonating with me. Yesterday, I was just confident from watching the game that were going to lose. Then when we did, I wasn't upset. It was just cathartic, mostly. I just thought, "well, they deserved that," and they were lucky it was close, actually. The playoff exits of the previous two years have really been reality checks that I shouldn't care so much about this. And this year, it feels like I really haven't.

[NCRAVEN]

Harbaugh's game philosophy is

• Avoid unnecessary risks at all costs.
• Make no unforced mistakes.
• Take advantage of the opponent's mistakes.

He believes that teams that do these three things win consistently. And many do: Those whose players and/or coaches are as good as or better than their opponents. Because that approach minimizes the chance that an inferior opponent "gets lucky."

Over his first 4 years as Ravens HC, Harbaugh has had the luxury of an overall more talented roster than those of his opponents, so that approach has worked pretty well--it's hard to argue with 4 straight postseason appearances & a dropped pass & missed kick from the Super Bowl.

He no longer has that luxury. In fact it is arguable that this roster is inferior in talent to most of the ones the Ravens have already faced this year & all of those they have yet to face.

Ray Lewis and Ed Reed are on the back end of their careers. Suggs is still recovering his form. Ngata is playing hurt. Cody can't seem to get proper technique for NT play down. Webb is out. Jimmy Smith is always hurt & not playing up to potential. Upshaw is still learning. McPhee has been hurt & is a shadow of last year's promising rookie. Kruger is overmatched against even average OLs.

On offense, Oher & KO are playing out of position, Birk is ready to retire, no one's looking good at left guard, the WRs are dropping passes at an alarming rate, and Joe is Jekyll & Hyde.

As for coaching, the less said the better.

Playing to avoid risk when your coaches are being outthought & your players aren't playing as well as the opponents' is not "coaching not to lose." It is coaching in hopes that you'll catch enough breaks to win.

IMHO, to be honest, unless Harbaugh can overcome his risk aversion between now & the end of the year, catching enough breaks is the only hope they have of winning another game. And if you look back on the year, it's hard to avoid the sinking feeling that they've already used up all the breaks they're entitled to, & more.

Sums it all up perfectly.

[saintmatthew]

On another note... If you love your kids. Please don't decide to decorate your Christmas tree during or after a Ravens game.

I started stringing some lights during halftime. I poured some eggnog and added some bourbon sometime during the 3rd qtr. Thinking all the while, the Ravens would get a big Pick-6 or something to seal this game. I had to keep yelling at the kids to wait 'till after the game before we start to get bulbs out of the boxes... Then I've got my 2.5 year old dropping glass bulbs and the score is 20-20. The tree decorating was miserable and I'm pretty sure my kids got sick of me yelling at them about being careful with the glass ornaments. "Space them out...!", "Dammit, be careful with that bulb, it's an antique from Germany!", and of course "Don't hit your sister!" about 20 times.

Then my 5 year old son found a box of tinsel and ripped that shit open.

Please, if you don't want them to hate Christmas, decorate the tree on a Saturday night.

Dude, that's freaking hilarious if for no other reason than the fact that my kids wanted to decorate the tree during the game and I told'em it probably wasn't a good idea to do it during a Raven's/Steeler's game.

[moose10101]

I have a question for those of you who were at the game. Nantz and Simms remarked in Q3 that the crowd's energy seemed to have fizzled out. It certainly sounded a lot more quiet, but I don't want to rely on my perception through the network's audio feed, which had multiple problems in the 2nd half.

How did the noise level in the 2nd half compare with that of the first half?

[Ravenboy2003]

I have a question for those of you who were at the game. Nantz and Simms remarked in Q3 that the crowd's energy seemed to have fizzled out. It certainly sounded a lot more quiet, but I don't want to rely on my perception through the network's audio feed, which had multiple problems in the 2nd half.

How did the noise level in the 2nd half compare with that of the first half?

I thought it was relatively quiet for the entire game.. not just the second half.

I can tell you this.. It was crazy loud at the December games last year. Last night was nothing like the home games coming down the stretch last season.

[HoustonRaven]

I have a question for those of you who were at the game. Nantz and Simms remarked in Q3 that the crowd's energy seemed to have fizzled out. It certainly sounded a lot more quiet, but I don't want to rely on my perception through the network's audio feed, which had multiple problems in the 2nd half.

How did the noise level in the 2nd half compare with that of the first half?

I definitely noticed it.

The seats were maybe 75% filled at the start of the half. Very little crowd noise if any as the Steelers drove to open the half.

I'd also add the crowd was just bad in terms of behavior as well. Sat in 142 and saw two fights in the stands and one by the men's bathroom, all involving Ravens fans.

[4G63]

I'm not nearly as emotionally invested in this team as I was the last few years. That loss in the AFCCG last year changed me. It made me realize that its just a game and I simply cannot let those negative feelings depress me. I was infuriated after that game but over the summer came to realize that winning a Super Bowl would be awesome but its not the most important thing. I've got two kids and a great wife and when I'd get down after losses and the lack of getting to the SB when making the PO's leaves me as a bitter person. I cannot let a game/team make me depressed so I'm just simply a "hope for the best" kinda guy now.

[RavensQB]

I thought it was relatively quiet for the entire game.. not just the second half.

I can tell you this.. It was crazy loud at the December games last year. Last night was nothing like the home games coming down the stretch last season.

The first cpl series was loud. But then the OFFENSIVE offensive playcalling starting taking grip. You could see that we were going to let the steelers hang around.

The LB's standing still and Charlie Batch was cooking meals in the pocket with an OL that is worse then ours.

So yeah it was quite by the third QTR. Then the 4th QTR you never say Ray Rice touch the ball again.

Not to mention the team had no urgency to them. Where the heck was the No/Sugar huddle. Joe in Shotgun???? This game was coached to lose.

Joe has never be an under center all game QB and never will be.

Funny how teams game plan around the players and skills. NOT HERE. Dammit now I'm pissed off again...

[NCRAVEN]

I thought it was relatively quiet for the entire game.. not just the second half.

I can tell you this.. It was crazy loud at the December games last year. Last night was nothing like the home games coming down the stretch last season.

I noticed it from home, everyone I was watching with said the same thing.

People can say it all they want that the way the fans approach a game has nothing to do with how the team approaches a game.

I call Bullshit.

Human nature is human nature, when the fans, the coaches and the players saw how many Steelers were out, we felt this one would fall in our laps. I felt the crowd never got into because they just felt we'd pull it out since it's a home game and the Steelers were beatup every where, and I think the team (maybe to a lesser extent) shared some of those feelings.

[wash yourself]

I'm not nearly as emotionally invested in this team as I was the last few years. That loss in the AFCCG last year changed me. It made me realize that its just a game and I simply cannot let those negative feelings depress me. I was infuriated after that game but over the summer came to realize that winning a Super Bowl would be awesome but its not the most important thing. I've got two kids and a great wife and when I'd get down after losses and the lack of getting to the SB when making the PO's leaves me as a bitter person. I cannot let a game/team make me depressed so I'm just simply a "hope for the best" kinda guy now.

This is exactly my situation as well. Have been around for a while but last year's loss really got to me; more-so than any other loss. Won't let it happen anymore, which is probably healthier anyway. Love this team but can't let it affect my mood like it did.

[The Fanatic]

The first cpl series was loud. But then the OFFENSIVE offensive playcalling starting taking grip. You could see that we were going to let the steelers hang around.

The LB's standing still and Charlie Batch was cooking meals in the pocket with an OL that is worse then ours.

So yeah it was quite by the third QTR. Then the 4th QTR you never say Ray Rice touch the ball again.

Not to mention the team had no urgency to them. Where the heck was the No/Sugar huddle. Joe in Shotgun???? This game was coached to lose.

Joe has never be an under center all game QB and never will be.

Funny how teams game plan around the players and skills. NOT HERE. Dammit now I'm pissed off again...

Pretty much sums it up for me.

The lack of performance by our team on both sides of the ball seemed to take their own crowd out of it.

Other then a few big plays on defense (the Reed INT. and the fumble recovery) not much more to get the crowd jacked about.

Watching the defense let Batch pick them apart and "Matriculate" the ball down the field pretty much sucked the life out of the crowd.
Couple that with the offenses inability to do just about anything (sans a couple plays) to get excited about or stop our defense from having to go back onto the field, and you get what you got.

[Section 502 Raven]

c'mon man. the ravens play close games. the league is about parity. there is no relaxing as a football fan. you got to be tough to be a football fan, you need endurance.

as for harbaugh, he gets the most out of his talent by setting high expectations and creating a culture of team and winning.

the ravens are not that talented. the interior d-line is poor with kemo, jones and cody. the secondary without web does not have a shut down corner. we were on our 3rd string middle linebacker last night. the offensive line is questionable. birk is old, oher continues with stupid penalites and osemele is young.

we are 9-3 and we are really in a rebuilding phase. ray and reed are on their way out and we couldn't afford to resign grubbs. mcphee, bynes, osemele, reid, harwood, brown, ellerbe,bynes and other are getting playing time and will be the future but they need reps.

[landspeed]

c'mon man. the ravens play close games. the league is about parity. there is no relaxing as a football fan. you got to be tough to be a football fan, you need endurance.

as for harbaugh, he gets the most out of his talent by setting high expectations and creating a culture of team and winning.

the ravens are not that talented. the interior d-line is poor with kemo, jones and cody. the secondary without web does not have a shut down corner. we were on our 3rd string middle linebacker last night. the offensive line is questionable. birk is old, oher continues with stupid penalites and osemele is young.

we are 9-3 and we are really in a rebuilding phase. ray and reed are on their way out and we couldn't afford to resign grubbs. mcphee, bynes, osemele, reid, harwood, brown, ellerbe,bynes and other are getting playing time and will be the future but they need reps.

I really have no idea what game or team you are watching but its not the ravens.

Harbaugh does not get the most out of his talent? That is literally the exact opposite of what he really does. He does not cater to players strengths. He lets talented players sit on the bench or out of position.

Birk is old, so we... re-sign him? Im sorry, but I would rather have Jason Brown back at this point.

This team is not in a rebuilding phase. It doesnt need to be. We have enough consistent talent where there should never be a rebuilding phase for this team.

[s.r.genovese]

I really have no idea what game or team you are watching but its not the ravens.

Harbaugh does not get the most out of his talent? That is literally the exact opposite of what he really does. He does not cater to players strengths. He lets talented players sit on the bench or out of position.

Birk is old, so we... re-sign him? Im sorry, but I would rather have Jason Brown back at this point.

This team is not in a rebuilding phase. It doesnt need to be. We have enough consistent talent where there should never be a rebuilding phase for this team.

I think 502 is right. Fans around here are judging the team based on the talent they "think" the team has rather than the actual talent on the team. 502 broke it down, there is not the same amount of talent on the team as there has been the past 3 years.

Harbaugh is getting a lot of out this team; honestly they don't have the talent of a 9-3 team. As evidenced by the plethora of close games and lucky breaks, they probably aren't as good as their record suggests. But because of the culture of smart, disciplined football, they were able to stick around in games that they probably shouldn't have won (like San Diego).

Unfortunately its pretty unlikely they'll be able to keep it up for very much longer. Sooner or later the shoe is going to drop. This offensive line and defensive unit is too depleted to make noise at this point.

[landspeed]

I think 502 is right. Fans around here are judging the team based on the talent they "think" the team has rather than the actual talent on the team. 502 broke it down, there is not the same amount of talent on the team as there has been the past 3 years.

Harbaugh is getting a lot of out this team; honestly they don't have the talent of a 9-3 team. As evidenced by the plethora of close games and lucky breaks, they probably aren't as good as their record suggests. But because of the culture of smart, disciplined football, they were able to stick around in games that they probably shouldn't have won (like San Diego).

Unfortunately its pretty unlikely they'll be able to keep it up for very much longer. Sooner or later the shoe is going to drop. This offensive line and defensive unit is too depleted to make noise at this point.

How is he getting a lot out of this team? We struggle to score 20 points when we have Joe Flacco, Torrey Smith, Anquan Boldin, Ray Rice, Bernard Pierce, Vonta Leach, Marshal Yanda, Kelechi Osemele(guard, should be), Michael Oher(RT, should be).

Hes getting next to nothing out of our offense. They are clearly fed up.


This is all Harbaughs fault. He has coasted with the talent built from the billick regime/his first draft year.

We are great offensively. We should be. Scheme, coaching - That is what is holding us back. He is what is holding Joe back. Everybody can see it besides a select few.

[Sua Sponte]

I didn't read much after page 1, all I can say is that I wish I felt the same way prior to this game. I get emotionally invested come football season, I actually feel embarrassed right now, because I made a fool of myself last night with cursing and flipping out... I will always be a fan, but I am so drained from getting furious with the play calling, lack of tackling ability and just watching this team play down to almost ever team they play. I should have stayed in the field training yesterday and I hate to say but I think I will actually stay out on the range this Sunday to spare myself some un-needed gray hair and high blood pressure. I think I will take a like approach and if we win it awesome, but if we fall short yet again, then it is what it is. I can't continue to invest like this it is bad for my health.
Biscuit - I hope you step in rich fella, I really like what you bring to the city, but this is not fair to the fans that spill their guts ever week to watch this subpar OC continue to pound a square peg in a round hole...