Swap out Joe from the Cam Offense and insert other NFL QB... Who would be better?

[kojo]

I'm thinking the Ravens passed to open up the running game and have rice run out the clock in the 4th at the end. They gambled on the D getting a quick stop on Batch only for him to not only get a TD off a fumble but eat all that clock up and drive down the field for a FG. It almost worked if Doss held on to that pass, then they make a short yardage situation to get a first down and wear the steelers out with Rice. But woulda coulda shoulda don't cut it in this league obviously. The gameplan was right for the most part, keep in mind the Steelers have the number 1 D and are division rivals. Look at what the Rams did to SF this year and look at their record.

[ravensnhokies]

Teams figured out if they drop 8 in coverage, the receivers cant get open running these isolation routes and it forces Joe to hold the ball waiting for them to get open.

Yup defenses have adapted to Cam's scheme and Cam hasnt answered those adjustments. Torrey, last year, would get open on deep balls quite a few times. This year... maybe 3 times at most (Raiders TD). Not good.

The one new thing they've done successfully (at home) is no-huddle. No-huddle gets Joe in a rhythm. Where the hell was it last nite? If Harbs truly is putting the kibosh on it when Cam and Caldwell want it, he is an idiot. Sure you want the defense rested with ball control offensive drives, but there are ways to run clock with the no huddle. Rice is good at running the ball out of shotgun. Ultimately the offense's #1 goal is to score points and our no-huddle provides that more than the ball control 2WR/FB/TE set.

[wickedsolo]

Yup defenses have adapted to Cam's scheme and Cam hasnt answered those adjustments. Torrey, last year, would get open on deep balls quite a few times. This year... maybe 3 times at most (Raiders TD). Not good.

The one new thing they've done successfully (at home) is no-huddle. No-huddle gets Joe in a rhythm. Where the hell was it last nite? If Harbs truly is putting the kibosh on it when Cam and Caldwell want it, he is an idiot. Sure you want the defense rested with ball control offensive drives, but there are ways to run clock with the no huddle. Rice is good at running the ball out of shotgun. Ultimately the offense's #1 goal is to score points and our no-huddle provides that more than the ball control 2WR/FB/TE set.

It is easy to cover receivers in Cam's offense when they only run 2-3 routes. Secondly, it is easy to cover receivers in Cam's offense because more often than not you have guys running the SAME routes on the SAME side of the field.

[Jsmoove]

It is easy to cover receivers in Cam's offense when they only run 2-3 routes. Secondly, it is easy to cover receivers in Cam's offense because more often than not you have guys running the SAME routes on the SAME side of the field.

like i been saying for 2yrs now, there is no flooding the zones, no trip sets or bunch formations, no 4-5 wideouts spreading the field, in cam's system you 3 wideouts and 1 TE and rice as the bailout plan those 3 wideouts one on side and 2 on the other one running deep (torrey), one running intermediate (jacoby) and boldin taking the curls and drags its all the same shit every game i EVEN KNOW WHEN ITS COMING if I know you damn sure know nfl coaches know. its the same shit.

[wickedsolo]

like i been saying for 2yrs now, there is no flooding the zones, no trip sets or bunch formations, no 4-5 wideouts spreading the field, in cam's system you 3 wideouts and 1 TE and rice as the bailout plan those 3 wideouts one on side and 2 on the other one running deep (torrey), one running intermediate (jacoby) and boldin taking the curls and drags its all the same shit every game i EVEN KNOW WHEN ITS COMING if I know you damn sure know nfl coaches know. its the same shit.

I just don't understand why Boldin is the only guy who really gets looks over the middle of the field.

Why is it that JAcoby and Torrey (for the most part) only are running 9's? Last I checked, they are two of the fastest guys on the squad...seems to me that Jacoby in the middle of the field with the ball in his hands could be pretty lethal for opposing D's...

[rharris1986]

Brees couldn't do it in Cam system (with CAM) and Rivers couldn't do it either. How much more "proof" do you need (a 10 year track record) that Cam Cameron produces a mediocre offense at best. Put Joe on the 49ers and they're in the Superbowl.

[bmorecareful]

Regarding the whole timing/throwing the ball as the WR comes out of his break/etc. thing, I want to remind you guys of something that was reported not long ago that I had never really heard or noticed before.

The Ravens, unlike teams that use a West Coast passing attack, don't want their receivers making sharp, 90-degree breaks when they come out of their routes. Baltimore's Air Coryell offense asks its receivers to instead bend their routes while running full speed, a change that might seem subtle, but one that -- to a wide receiver -- is like trying to learn to write left-handed after spending your entire life as a righty.

from Kevin Van Valkenberg's article for ESPN, http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/page/...r-torrey-smith

This made my jaw drop when I read it. I'm just a guy who played a little college ball and coached a little rec/intramural football, but even I know that probably the #1 mechanical flaw a wideout can have in his game is rounding off his routes. From the very very earliest levels kids who play wide receiver are taught to be SHARP out of their breaks. And yet, in Cam's system they're taught the exact opposite?

Ever since I read that (which BTW I had NEVER heard attributed to Cam's system before) I started watching the receivers closely. And it's true. Almost every route except the out route is rounded off out of the break, instead of broken off sharply. On a timing route, in a normal NFL offense the ball is supposed to leave the QB's hand at the instant the receiver comes out of his break. But how do you do that when the receiver doesn't actually break at all but instead kind of lazily, gradually bends the route in the desired direction?

Why are the receivers struggling so much to get separation? Because it's so easy for a DB to read them. They don't run very many routes at all, they don't run any double moves, and when they DO run a route that should break sharply to get them some separation, they bend it. Torrey Smith runs a lot of deep and skinny post routes--go watch all the deep incompletions he ran last night. On almost all of them, he very gradually bends toward the post, making no effort to use a head fake, jut step, or any other route running techniques. It's just so easy for a DB to follow that route all the way down the field and without a sharp break there's no definite point for the ball to come out.

This needs to be pointed out, because again it's a serious coaching error that is having a cascading effect on the entire passing game. Go back and re-watch with this in mind and it will really change the way you see things.

[landspeed]

I know that's part of it, they were playing the top defense in a must win game. But they put up 44 against Cinci, 31 against NE and Dallas...

Cinci's defense was hurt at the beginning of the season and just werent clicking yet. NE has a shitting D and Dallas was one of our good offensive games.

[iggyman555]

Oline and WR coaches should be first guys fired in the end of the season...cam most likely staying

[wickedsolo]

Regarding the whole timing/throwing the ball as the WR comes out of his break/etc. thing, I want to remind you guys of something that was reported not long ago that I had never really heard or noticed before.



from Kevin Van Valkenberg's article for ESPN, http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/page/...r-torrey-smith

This made my jaw drop when I read it. I'm just a guy who played a little college ball and coached a little rec/intramural football, but even I know that probably the #1 mechanical flaw a wideout can have in his game is rounding off his routes. From the very very earliest levels kids who play wide receiver are taught to be SHARP out of their breaks. And yet, in Cam's system they're taught the exact opposite?

Ever since I read that (which BTW I had NEVER heard attributed to Cam's system before) I started watching the receivers closely. And it's true. Almost every route except the out route is rounded off out of the break, instead of broken off sharply. On a timing route, in a normal NFL offense the ball is supposed to leave the QB's hand at the instant the receiver comes out of his break. But how do you do that when the receiver doesn't actually break at all but instead kind of lazily, gradually bends the route in the desired direction?

Why are the receivers struggling so much to get separation? Because it's so easy for a DB to read them. They don't run very many routes at all, they don't run any double moves, and when they DO run a route that should break sharply to get them some separation, they bend it. Torrey Smith runs a lot of deep and skinny post routes--go watch all the deep incompletions he ran last night. On almost all of them, he very gradually bends toward the post, making no effort to use a head fake, jut step, or any other route running techniques. It's just so easy for a DB to follow that route all the way down the field and without a sharp break there's no definite point for the ball to come out.

This needs to be pointed out, because again it's a serious coaching error that is having a cascading effect on the entire passing game. Go back and re-watch with this in mind and it will really change the way you see things.

Interesting.

[JAB1985]

is it possible they resigned cam knowing Flacco would have mediocre stats while still being relatively competitive as we were last year just to save some money on his contract before dumping cam following it?

Probably not realistic, but can i just believe thats the only reason Cam is still around?

[Jsmoove]

Regarding the whole timing/throwing the ball as the WR comes out of his break/etc. thing, I want to remind you guys of something that was reported not long ago that I had never really heard or noticed before.



from Kevin Van Valkenberg's article for ESPN, http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/page/...r-torrey-smith

This made my jaw drop when I read it. I'm just a guy who played a little college ball and coached a little rec/intramural football, but even I know that probably the #1 mechanical flaw a wideout can have in his game is rounding off his routes. From the very very earliest levels kids who play wide receiver are taught to be SHARP out of their breaks. And yet, in Cam's system they're taught the exact opposite?

Ever since I read that (which BTW I had NEVER heard attributed to Cam's system before) I started watching the receivers closely. And it's true. Almost every route except the out route is rounded off out of the break, instead of broken off sharply. On a timing route, in a normal NFL offense the ball is supposed to leave the QB's hand at the instant the receiver comes out of his break. But how do you do that when the receiver doesn't actually break at all but instead kind of lazily, gradually bends the route in the desired direction?

Why are the receivers struggling so much to get separation? Because it's so easy for a DB to read them. They don't run very many routes at all, they don't run any double moves, and when they DO run a route that should break sharply to get them some separation, they bend it. Torrey Smith runs a lot of deep and skinny post routes--go watch all the deep incompletions he ran last night. On almost all of them, he very gradually bends toward the post, making no effort to use a head fake, jut step, or any other route running techniques. It's just so easy for a DB to follow that route all the way down the field and without a sharp break there's no definite point for the ball to come out.

This needs to be pointed out, because again it's a serious coaching error that is having a cascading effect on the entire passing game. Go back and re-watch with this in mind and it will really change the way you see things.

wow how much more evidence does this FO and harbaugh need to shit can this ass?

[Jsmoove]

I just don't understand why Boldin is the only guy who really gets looks over the middle of the field.

Why is it that JAcoby and Torrey (for the most part) only are running 9's? Last I checked, they are two of the fastest guys on the squad...seems to me that Jacoby in the middle of the field with the ball in his hands could be pretty lethal for opposing D's...

dude it's beyond me i haven't seen a post route in the middle of the field since billick. What happen to Ed Dickson with his speed in the middle of the field, granted its 50/50 ed catches it but he is a mismatch nightmare for safties and LBs, its the same routes, the same plays the same shit every game.

[wickedsolo]

is it possible they resigned cam knowing Flacco would have mediocre stats while still being relatively competitive as we were last year just to save some money on his contract before dumping cam following it?

Probably not realistic, but can i just believe thats the only reason Cam is still around?

I have a real hard time thinking that could even be remotely close to true.

That is almost as bad as some folks on here insinuating that Harbaugh would rather lose games than play certain guys.

[PerpetuallyBored74]

Regarding the whole timing/throwing the ball as the WR comes out of his break/etc. thing, I want to remind you guys of something that was reported not long ago that I had never really heard or noticed before.



from Kevin Van Valkenberg's article for ESPN, http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/page/...r-torrey-smith

This made my jaw drop when I read it. I'm just a guy who played a little college ball and coached a little rec/intramural football, but even I know that probably the #1 mechanical flaw a wideout can have in his game is rounding off his routes. From the very very earliest levels kids who play wide receiver are taught to be SHARP out of their breaks. And yet, in Cam's system they're taught the exact opposite?

Ever since I read that (which BTW I had NEVER heard attributed to Cam's system before) I started watching the receivers closely. And it's true. Almost every route except the out route is rounded off out of the break, instead of broken off sharply. On a timing route, in a normal NFL offense the ball is supposed to leave the QB's hand at the instant the receiver comes out of his break. But how do you do that when the receiver doesn't actually break at all but instead kind of lazily, gradually bends the route in the desired direction?

Why are the receivers struggling so much to get separation? Because it's so easy for a DB to read them. They don't run very many routes at all, they don't run any double moves, and when they DO run a route that should break sharply to get them some separation, they bend it. Torrey Smith runs a lot of deep and skinny post routes--go watch all the deep incompletions he ran last night. On almost all of them, he very gradually bends toward the post, making no effort to use a head fake, jut step, or any other route running techniques. It's just so easy for a DB to follow that route all the way down the field and without a sharp break there's no definite point for the ball to come out.

This needs to be pointed out, because again it's a serious coaching error that is having a cascading effect on the entire passing game. Go back and re-watch with this in mind and it will really change the way you see things.

I read this same article and wondered the same thing. How the hell are WRs suposed to get open if they're not doing everything that a WR is supposed to do to get open?!

And why the hell haven't any of the "experts" on ESPN and NFLN ever pointed this out?

As for which QBs would be as good as Joe or better with Cam, the answer is actually this:

Cutler would be as good or worse: he's more mobile then Joe but also more volatile.
Eli would be as good: Which is to say he'd be just as inconsistent.
Ben would be better: but less reliable due to not being able to stay healthy.
Brees would be best: has the mobility and pocket presence still, but his height would mean more interceptions and that goes against Cam's/Harb's conservative, play-it-safe philosophy

And those are the only 4, because those are the only 4 who have the arm strength and toughness, who've also demonstrated they can play well enough to win games behind mediocre or worse O-Lines if their D is good enough.

Forget A-Rod: he's used to getting the ball out quick in that WCO the Packers run where WRs are supposed to get open fast by running a variety of shorter routes, then when the D is set up for it, going vertical--basically the polar opposite of how Cam does it.
Considering his early problems with concussions, expecting A-Rod to hold on to the ball, getting drilled over and over...he won't last the season; back when he played like that, he was not an elite QB anyway.

So yeah, Cam's offense is that rigid, that very few QBs are a good fit.

[JAB1985]

I have a real hard time thinking that could even be remotely close to true.

That is almost as bad as some folks on here insinuating that Harbaugh would rather lose games than play certain guys.

haha, i know, im just baffled at how this man is still currently employed here. I give Atlanta a lot of props, they were good enough but didnt settle for it and made a move despite being a playoff team. Im only hopeful at this point we do the same.

[Jsmoove]

you know what baffles me? ANDY FUCKIN MOELLER STILL IS EMPLOYED BY THE RAVENS!!!

[wickedsolo]

haha, i know, im just baffled at how this man is still currently employed here. I give Atlanta a lot of props, they were good enough but didnt settle for it and made a move despite being a playoff team. Im only hopeful at this point we do the same.

Agreed.

Bringing in Dirk Koetter after Mike Mularkey left and trading the farm for Julio Jones. Gotta admire that kind of balls. Maybe we'll see the Ravens do that for Manti T'eo.

[doubtful]

[The Fanatic]

Interesting.

Interesting?

OK, more like mind blowing to me!!

wow how much more evidence does this FO and harbaugh need to shit can this ass?

You'll get no argument from me here.

[trailhiker85]

Here's what I'd like to see next year: Cam Cameron and Mark Sanchez both get jettisoned by their respective teams and are signed by the Oakland Raiders.