Do you really want the Biscuit to step in?

**Purpleguy** · 12-03-2012, 02:23 PM

I'm hearing a lot of talk from fans about having Bisciotti or Ozzie step in and fire Cam and Pees. I have always come from the school of thought that says that head coaches should get to choose their own coordinators, and they should live and die with those choices. Cam is going on his third season of showing absolute ineptitude. It is quite obvious that Harbaugh has no intention of firing the guy. We have an o-line coach that you could make an easy case for firing him based on performance, but sadly, you have a slam dunk reason to fire him based on behavior. Harbaugh is not capable of pulling the trigger and firing a fellow coach, and it's a problem. It is not the owner's job to do that for him, and it could be detrimental to the team for an owner to do that. Owner's have egos, and sometimes when they make the right call it goes to their heads. The death of the Orioles happened when Angelos made one good call by overriding Gillick on trading Bonilla. After that Pete thought he knew more than the baseball guys.

The bottom line is that if Harbaugh can't see, or refuses to accept, that these guys are holding the team back, then Harbaugh is actually holding the team back.

**Captain Silver** · 12-03-2012, 02:27 PM

Originally Posted by Purpleguy

I'm hearing a lot of talk from fans about having Bisciotti or Ozzie step in and fire Cam and Pees. I have always come from the school of thought that says that head coaches should get to choose their own coordinators, and they should live and die with those choices. Cam is going on his third season of showing absolute ineptitude. It is quite obvious that Harbaugh has no intention of firing the guy. We have an o-line coach that you could make an easy case for firing him based on performance, but sadly, you have a slam dunk reason to fire him based on behavior. Harbaugh is not capable of pulling the trigger and firing a fellow coach, and it's a problem. It is not the owner's job to do that for him, and it could be detrimental to the team for an owner to do that. Owner's have egos, and sometimes when they make the right call it goes to their heads. The death of the Orioles happened when Angelos made one good call by overriding Gillick on trading Bonilla. After that Pete thought he knew more than the baseball guys.

The bottom line is that if Harbaugh can't see, or refuses to accept, that these guys are holding the team back, then Harbaugh is actually holding the team back.

I have been saying this for years, but making the playoffs is enough around here according to most.

**JohnBKistler** · 12-03-2012, 02:30 PM

Originally Posted by Captain Silver

I have been saying this for years, but making the playoffs is enough around here according to most.

And you replace him with?

**Captain Silver** · 12-03-2012, 02:33 PM

Originally Posted by JohnBKistler

And you replace him with?

For me I'd bring back Billick. But that would never fly with most of you so my 2nd choice would be Gruden. 3rd choice would be Mike Nolan, he built the 49er team we see today.

**pslholder96** · 12-03-2012, 02:41 PM

Originally Posted by Captain Silver

For me I'd bring back Billick. But that would never fly with most of you so my 2nd choice would be Gruden. 3rd choice would be Mike Nolan, he built the 49er team we see today.

It doesn't matter what would "fly with us". What matters is whether Biscioti would want Billick back? I would guess no.

**rharris1986** · 12-03-2012, 02:45 PM

The Ravens are going to be embarrased over the next four games and that will set the wheels in motion and John Harbaugh will see the light and be "quietly compelled" to make a change. Because you see - Darwin was right after all - when it comes to survival!

**leachisabeast** · 12-03-2012, 02:58 PM

Originally Posted by Captain Silver

For me I'd bring back Billick. But that would never fly with most of you so my 2nd choice would be Gruden. 3rd choice would be Mike Nolan, he built the 49er team we see today.

How about Chip Kelly?

**Ravenswintitle** · 12-03-2012, 03:00 PM

you seriously think they're going to fire coaches mid-season of a 9-3 team that's been to two AFCC recently? wow

**The Fanatic** · 12-03-2012, 02:35 PM

Originally Posted by JohnBKistler

And you replace him with?

There's only 32 of these jobs in the world, and thousands of guys who have or are spending their entire professional lives working to become head coaches at the highest level of their sport.

Surely there's at least one guy out there somewhere that has at least a clue as to how to coach in the NFL.

**NCRAVEN** · 12-03-2012, 02:44 PM

Originally Posted by JohnBKistler

And you replace him with?

Andy Reid is going to be out of a job, so is Norv Turner (just kidding).

But I agree with everyone else and I said it in another thread "Fish stinks from the head". Harbaugh is currently too conservative in the overall gameplan, and apparently thinks Cam is doing a good job.

**RavensQB** · 12-03-2012, 02:46 PM

Originally Posted by JohnBKistler

And you replace him with?

I freaking High School Coach calls better plays then CAM... I think Jim Caldwell may know a thing or 2.

This game and this week is just like the week Brian Billick had to fire Jim Fassel.

It is a defining moment in RAVENS history. That time is this week.

You dont think Jim Caldwell does not know CAM's playbook? I bet there are some plays in there that he nevers uses.

OH and BTW. Where the hell was the End o Round yesterday?

**Ravens27Girl** · 12-03-2012, 03:05 PM

Cam will not be fired at this point in the season. We just need to find ways to put laxatives in his coffee on game days to keep him in the bathroom until the game is over. Harbaugh is not going anywhere so save your breath (and/or your typing fingers).

**lobachevsky** · 12-03-2012, 03:36 PM

At the very least I'd like Bisciotti to sit down with Harbaugh right now (if not sooner) & say something like this:

John, I know you think the surest route to the postseason is by playing low-risk football, and it's served us well over the last few years. You don't have to remind me how close we came to going to the Super Bowl last January.

But from what I've seen, we don't have the personnel for that to be a winning formula for the rest of this season. After all the injuries, our players are not better than our opponents' and they are on the whole not as talented. Our plays and formations are being read like a book and every adjustment our coordinators make is slow to materialize, easily anticipated & quickly neutralized.

We're lucky to be in a position where one more win will almost surely get us into the playoffs. But without a bit of luck, we could easily lose them all. Every one of our future opponents is a playoff-caliber team. Even if through some quirk in the standings we still got to play in January, I can't imagine any Ravens fan who would be happy to limp into the playoffs on a 5-game losing streak, or expect anything but disappointment once we did. I sure wouldn't. And while it's possible for one or more of the remaining games to fall into our laps & punch our ticket, backing in by a fluke would be almost as distasteful, & it's unreliable as well. We've already had a big helping of good luck this year.

I and I think most Ravens fans would rather see us go down with guns blazing than to crabcrawl into the postseason & a probable exit in the first round.

Now is the time to open things up & trust your players to make plays. If they can't, we need to know that going forward. It's time to start taking measured risks even though it's not how you'd rather play. And if your coordinators have any plans or plays in their back pockets they've been saving for the playoffs, it's time to think about taking them out & using them, because if we don't leave it all out on the field in December we may never get to January.

If you think this is wrong, then tell me what you think is the right plan. I'd be happy if you can convince me there's a better alternative available.

(Yeah, I wrote another book. It's not a bug, it's a feature--get used to it.)

**Jsmoove** · 12-03-2012, 03:40 PM

they should at this point , thiS play not to lose shit is down right fucking ridiculous, this shit has to get some people fired how the fuck does piss pees not blitz a 38yr old QB? you have your corners playing 15yrd off the fucking ball? Pees should be fired after that bullshit, fuck even mattison did better than that. Then you got killa cam yeeeaahhhhhh!!! fuck him he needs to go this fucking loss was embarassing to say the least A 38YR OLD FUCKING QB WHO CAN'T THROW SHIT OVER 20YRDS???? SOMEONE SHOULD BE MADE AN EXAMPLE FOR THIS BULLSHIT.

**GOTA** · 12-03-2012, 03:42 PM

There is a reason why Steve pays Ozzie big money to run the team. I hate the idea of the owner stepping in on decisions about assistant coaches. The GM though is a different story. Ozzie is a expert. He should be stepping in if he thinks something is wrong. And at this point it's too late for this season. It should be a post season move.

**Purpleguy** · 12-03-2012, 03:49 PM

Originally Posted by lobachevsky

At the very least I'd like Bisciotti to sit down with Harbaugh right now (if not sooner) & say something like this:

John, I know you think the surest route to the postseason is by playing low-risk football, and it's served us well over the last few years. You don't have to remind me how close we came to going to the Super Bowl last January.

But from what I've seen, we don't have the personnel for that to be a winning formula for the rest of this season. After all the injuries, our players are not better than our opponents' and they are on the whole not as talented. Our plays and formations are being read like a book and every adjustment our coordinators make is slow to materialize, easily anticipated & quickly neutralized.

We're lucky to be in a position where one more win will almost surely get us into the playoffs. But without a bit of luck, we could easily lose them all. Every one of our future opponents is a playoff-caliber team. Even if through some quirk in the standings we still got to play in January, I can't imagine any Ravens fan who would be happy to limp into the playoffs on a 5-game losing streak, or expect anything but disappointment once we did. I sure wouldn't. And while it's possible for one or more of the remaining games to fall into our laps & punch our ticket, backing in by a fluke would be almost as distasteful, & it's unreliable as well. We've already had a big helping of good luck this year.

I and I think most Ravens fans would rather see us go down with guns blazing than to crabcrawl into the postseason & a probable exit in the first round.

Now is the time to open things up & trust your players to make plays. If they can't, we need to know that going forward. It's time to start taking measured risks even though it's not how you'd rather play. And if your coordinators have any plans or plays in their back pockets they've been saving for the playoffs, it's time to think about taking them out & using them, because if we don't leave it all out on the field in December we may never get to January.

If you think this is wrong, then tell me what you think is the right plan. I'd be happy if you can convince me there's a better alternative available.

(Yeah, I wrote another book. It's not a bug, it's a feature--get used to it.)

I think that kind of input is too meddling for an owner. All the owner needs to say to Harbaugh is, "This level of play is not sufficient. Fix it!". Then you sit back and see how he reacts. Harbaugh is much more likely to blame players than coordinators. Hell, the guy gives his coordinators game balls pretty regularly.

**The Fanatic** · 12-03-2012, 02:32 PM

I said it in the Fire Cam thread, and I'll say it again here...

If Harbaugh can't man up, or is too stupid or stubborn to see it and do it, then his ass can go too.

**moose10101** · 12-03-2012, 02:30 PM

If Biscotti did step in, you wouldn't know it, because I don't think he'd put Harbaugh in the position of having a coach fired out from under him. The private message would be, "John, you need to make a change". The public message would be, "John has decided to make a change, and we support his decision".

**steelerhater** · 12-03-2012, 03:53 PM

Originally Posted by Purpleguy

I'm hearing a lot of talk from fans about having Bisciotti or Ozzie step in and fire Cam and Pees. I have always come from the school of thought that says that head coaches should get to choose their own coordinators, and they should live and die with those choices. Cam is going on his third season of showing absolute ineptitude. It is quite obvious that Harbaugh has no intention of firing the guy. We have an o-line coach that you could make an easy case for firing him based on performance, but sadly, you have a slam dunk reason to fire him based on behavior. Harbaugh is not capable of pulling the trigger and firing a fellow coach, and it's a problem. It is not the owner's job to do that for him, and it could be detrimental to the team for an owner to do that. Owner's have egos, and sometimes when they make the right call it goes to their heads. The death of the Orioles happened when Angelos made one good call by overriding Gillick on trading Bonilla. After that Pete thought he knew more than the baseball guys.

The bottom line is that if Harbaugh can't see, or refuses to accept, that these guys are holding the team back, then Harbaugh is actually holding the team back.

Bisciotti is Cam's biggest fan. If he hasn't fired him over the last four years, he never will. Playing not to lose and hoping for good defense is how Bisciotti wants it. He doesn't want an exposive offense.

**Purpleguy** · 12-03-2012, 03:58 PM

Originally Posted by steelerhater

Bisciotti is Cam's biggest fan. If he hasn't fired him over the last four years, he never will. Playing not to lose and hoping for good defense is how Bisciotti wants it. He doesn't want an exposive offense.

Is it more likely that Bisciotti doesn't want to fire Cam because he likes a conservative offense (Cam isn't conservative. He's vanilla), or Harbaugh won't fire the guy that gave him his first football gig at Indiana?