Do you really want the Biscuit to step in?

**Purpleguy** · 12-03-2012, 03:08 PM

They will never fire Cam midseason. When Billick fired Fassell midseason it was a bold move, and another reason that this team would have been better off keeping Billick. Billick wasn't going to pop some other guy in during the middle of the season and put all of that pressure on a new coordinator. Billick took over the job himself. Harbaugh is not capable of doing that. He doesn't know anything about running an offense or defense. It would be incredibly unfair to Caldwell to throw him in at the tail end of the season and expect major changes. Everyone with eyes knew that this past offseason was the time to fire Cam. His contract was even up. Last year the excuse was the lockout. This season there was no excuse.

**rharris1986** · 12-03-2012, 03:29 PM

By embarrased I really meant to say that the Ravens are going to lose the next four games and basically Biscotti will be embarrased by the results and as a result compelled to do something about it. I really hope I'm wrong - but I can't see the Ravens putting up wins against these teams (even the Redskins)

When you consider the fact that the Ravens have only had three or four solid offensive performances all year you begin to doubt their ability against young agressive teams. They only put up three field goals against the Chiefs in KC. They didn't score an offensive touchdown in San Diego. The barely beat Cleveland in the second game and they barely beat Pittsburgh in Pittsburgh. What makes anyone think that the Ravens can win any of their remaining games.

They are going to need to prove me wrong before I believe again. This is a bad team and the worst is yet to come. What will come however is the REAL MUTINY!

Originally Posted by Dirt1

I don't see the Redskins or the Bengals being able to embarrass the Ravens. However, the Broncos and the Giants games could get ugly. If Charlie Batch could do what he did to the Ravens defense, then the Mannings could both have big days, especially if Suggs has a significant injury.

**lobachevsky** · 12-03-2012, 03:36 PM

At the very least I'd like Bisciotti to sit down with Harbaugh right now (if not sooner) & say something like this:

John, I know you think the surest route to the postseason is by playing low-risk football, and it's served us well over the last few years. You don't have to remind me how close we came to going to the Super Bowl last January.

But from what I've seen, we don't have the personnel for that to be a winning formula for the rest of this season. After all the injuries, our players are not better than our opponents' and they are on the whole not as talented. Our plays and formations are being read like a book and every adjustment our coordinators make is slow to materialize, easily anticipated & quickly neutralized.

We're lucky to be in a position where one more win will almost surely get us into the playoffs. But without a bit of luck, we could easily lose them all. Every one of our future opponents is a playoff-caliber team. Even if through some quirk in the standings we still got to play in January, I can't imagine any Ravens fan who would be happy to limp into the playoffs on a 5-game losing streak, or expect anything but disappointment once we did. I sure wouldn't. And while it's possible for one or more of the remaining games to fall into our laps & punch our ticket, backing in by a fluke would be almost as distasteful, & it's unreliable as well. We've already had a big helping of good luck this year.

I and I think most Ravens fans would rather see us go down with guns blazing than to crabcrawl into the postseason & a probable exit in the first round.

Now is the time to open things up & trust your players to make plays. If they can't, we need to know that going forward. It's time to start taking measured risks even though it's not how you'd rather play. And if your coordinators have any plans or plays in their back pockets they've been saving for the playoffs, it's time to think about taking them out & using them, because if we don't leave it all out on the field in December we may never get to January.

If you think this is wrong, then tell me what you think is the right plan. I'd be happy if you can convince me there's a better alternative available.

(Yeah, I wrote another book. It's not a bug, it's a feature--get used to it.)

**Jsmoove** · 12-03-2012, 03:40 PM

they should at this point , thiS play not to lose shit is down right fucking ridiculous, this shit has to get some people fired how the fuck does piss pees not blitz a 38yr old QB? you have your corners playing 15yrd off the fucking ball? Pees should be fired after that bullshit, fuck even mattison did better than that. Then you got killa cam yeeeaahhhhhh!!! fuck him he needs to go this fucking loss was embarassing to say the least A 38YR OLD FUCKING QB WHO CAN'T THROW SHIT OVER 20YRDS???? SOMEONE SHOULD BE MADE AN EXAMPLE FOR THIS BULLSHIT.

**GOTA** · 12-03-2012, 03:42 PM

There is a reason why Steve pays Ozzie big money to run the team. I hate the idea of the owner stepping in on decisions about assistant coaches. The GM though is a different story. Ozzie is a expert. He should be stepping in if he thinks something is wrong. And at this point it's too late for this season. It should be a post season move.

**DrUnk** · 12-03-2012, 03:43 PM

Originally Posted by Jsmoove

they should at this point , thiS play not to lose shit is down right fucking ridiculous, this shit has to get some people fired how the fuck does piss pees not blitz a 38yr old QB? you have your corners playing 15yrd off the fucking ball? Pees should be fired after that bullshit, fuck even mattison did better than that. Then you got killa cam yeeeaahhhhhh!!! fuck him he needs to go this fucking loss was embarassing to say the least A 38YR OLD FUCKING QB WHO CAN'T THROW SHIT OVER 20YRDS???? SOMEONE SHOULD BE MADE AN EXAMPLE FOR THIS BULLSHIT.

Can't say I disagree.

**B-more Ravor** · 12-03-2012, 03:47 PM

Originally Posted by RavensQB

What was the Ravens record when Jim Fassil was let go?

4-2

Fassel's dismissal was less about what was happening on the field and more about the fact that he was out partying too much and spending too much time on the phone worrying about trying to get another HC gig. He simply wasn't putting in the requisite time necessary to be OC and it showed - and the other coaches - especially the coaches on the D - were very unhappy about it.

Had it had only to do with the performance on the field - like it had been with Cavanaugh - I doubt Billick would have fired him.

**Purpleguy** · 12-03-2012, 03:49 PM

Originally Posted by lobachevsky

At the very least I'd like Bisciotti to sit down with Harbaugh right now (if not sooner) & say something like this:

John, I know you think the surest route to the postseason is by playing low-risk football, and it's served us well over the last few years. You don't have to remind me how close we came to going to the Super Bowl last January.

But from what I've seen, we don't have the personnel for that to be a winning formula for the rest of this season. After all the injuries, our players are not better than our opponents' and they are on the whole not as talented. Our plays and formations are being read like a book and every adjustment our coordinators make is slow to materialize, easily anticipated & quickly neutralized.

We're lucky to be in a position where one more win will almost surely get us into the playoffs. But without a bit of luck, we could easily lose them all. Every one of our future opponents is a playoff-caliber team. Even if through some quirk in the standings we still got to play in January, I can't imagine any Ravens fan who would be happy to limp into the playoffs on a 5-game losing streak, or expect anything but disappointment once we did. I sure wouldn't. And while it's possible for one or more of the remaining games to fall into our laps & punch our ticket, backing in by a fluke would be almost as distasteful, & it's unreliable as well. We've already had a big helping of good luck this year.

I and I think most Ravens fans would rather see us go down with guns blazing than to crabcrawl into the postseason & a probable exit in the first round.

Now is the time to open things up & trust your players to make plays. If they can't, we need to know that going forward. It's time to start taking measured risks even though it's not how you'd rather play. And if your coordinators have any plans or plays in their back pockets they've been saving for the playoffs, it's time to think about taking them out & using them, because if we don't leave it all out on the field in December we may never get to January.

If you think this is wrong, then tell me what you think is the right plan. I'd be happy if you can convince me there's a better alternative available.

(Yeah, I wrote another book. It's not a bug, it's a feature--get used to it.)

I think that kind of input is too meddling for an owner. All the owner needs to say to Harbaugh is, "This level of play is not sufficient. Fix it!". Then you sit back and see how he reacts. Harbaugh is much more likely to blame players than coordinators. Hell, the guy gives his coordinators game balls pretty regularly.

**RavensQB** · 12-03-2012, 03:52 PM

Originally Posted by B-more Ravor

Fassel's dismissal was less about what was happening on the field and more about the fact that he was out partying too much and spending too much time on the phone worrying about trying to get another HC gig. He simply wasn't putting in the requisite time necessary to be OC and the other coaches - especially the coaches on the D - were very unhappy about it.

Had it had only to do with the performance on the field - like it had been with Cavanaugh - I doubt Billick would have fired him.

Hmmm Really?

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2629319

**steelerhater** · 12-03-2012, 03:53 PM

Originally Posted by Purpleguy

I'm hearing a lot of talk from fans about having Bisciotti or Ozzie step in and fire Cam and Pees. I have always come from the school of thought that says that head coaches should get to choose their own coordinators, and they should live and die with those choices. Cam is going on his third season of showing absolute ineptitude. It is quite obvious that Harbaugh has no intention of firing the guy. We have an o-line coach that you could make an easy case for firing him based on performance, but sadly, you have a slam dunk reason to fire him based on behavior. Harbaugh is not capable of pulling the trigger and firing a fellow coach, and it's a problem. It is not the owner's job to do that for him, and it could be detrimental to the team for an owner to do that. Owner's have egos, and sometimes when they make the right call it goes to their heads. The death of the Orioles happened when Angelos made one good call by overriding Gillick on trading Bonilla. After that Pete thought he knew more than the baseball guys.

The bottom line is that if Harbaugh can't see, or refuses to accept, that these guys are holding the team back, then Harbaugh is actually holding the team back.

Bisciotti is Cam's biggest fan. If he hasn't fired him over the last four years, he never will. Playing not to lose and hoping for good defense is how Bisciotti wants it. He doesn't want an exposive offense.

**B-more Ravor** · 12-03-2012, 03:54 PM

Originally Posted by RavensQB

Hmmm Really?

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2629319

Do you really think Billick was going to come out and publicly say that his good friend had a drinking problem and wasn't working hard?

**Purpleguy** · 12-03-2012, 03:58 PM

Originally Posted by steelerhater

Bisciotti is Cam's biggest fan. If he hasn't fired him over the last four years, he never will. Playing not to lose and hoping for good defense is how Bisciotti wants it. He doesn't want an exposive offense.

Is it more likely that Bisciotti doesn't want to fire Cam because he likes a conservative offense (Cam isn't conservative. He's vanilla), or Harbaugh won't fire the guy that gave him his first football gig at Indiana?

**pslholder96** · 12-03-2012, 03:58 PM

Originally Posted by RavensQB

What was the Ravens record when Jim Fassil was let go?

4-2

Great Comparison. 4-2 versus 9-3.

**JustaslowZ06** · 12-03-2012, 04:00 PM

I'd take Gruden over Harbs. Just saying.

But yes he need's to say something. Just making the playoffs isn't good enough anymore, not when you have the roster the Ravens have. Biscotti is paying out alot of money and we're constantly close to the salary cap. Christ could you imagine what would happen if we flip flopped roster's with say NE and Bellichek got ahold of it? Even WITH Flacco instead of Brady? Christ can you say another dynasty?

**B-more Ravor** · 12-03-2012, 04:02 PM

Originally Posted by steelerhater

Bisciotti is Cam's biggest fan. If he hasn't fired him over the last four years, he never will. Playing not to lose and hoping for good defense is how Bisciotti wants it. He doesn't want an exposive offense.

Bisciotti let Billick stand by Cavanaugh because he felt the HC should make those decisions. In the end, though, it was probably one of the several factors that help lead to Billick's dismissal.

It may well be the same with Harbaugh if he doesn't cut bait this time.

**Jsmoove** · 12-03-2012, 04:02 PM

you know I would too harbaugh is starting to show me some things especially this season.

**Ravenswintitle** · 12-03-2012, 04:18 PM

Originally Posted by Purpleguy

Is it more likely that Bisciotti doesn't want to fire Cam because he likes a conservative offense (Cam isn't conservative. He's vanilla), or Harbaugh won't fire the guy that gave him his first football gig at Indiana?

no doubt he's stated that winning is about possession time and converting 3rd downs. It's worked pretty well for him so it's hard to say he's wrong but you can say that's his philosophy, like it or not. Then you see some of these rookie QBs throwing the ball 50 times and winning. I just think the league has changed and continues to favor high octane offenses, not that the conservative ones can't still win their share

**Purpleguy** · 12-03-2012, 04:28 PM

Originally Posted by Ravenswintitle

no doubt he's stated that winning is about possession time and converting 3rd downs. It's worked pretty well for him so it's hard to say he's wrong but you can say that's his philosophy, like it or not. Then you see some of these rookie QBs throwing the ball 50 times and winning. I just think the league has changed and continues to favor high octane offenses, not that the conservative ones can't still win their share

That's great, but like I said, Cam isn't necessarily conservative. He's predictable and inconsistent. We throw deep to Torrey about 5 times a game. That's one of the lowest percentage plays in the game. We had a lead in the 4th quarter yesterday and the running back that we just signed to a huge deal didn't touch the ball.

**Coastergenius** · 12-03-2012, 04:28 PM

Originally Posted by Purpleguy

I'm hearing a lot of talk from fans about having Bisciotti or Ozzie step in and fire Cam and Pees. I have always come from the school of thought that says that head coaches should get to choose their own coordinators, and they should live and die with those choices. Cam is going on his third season of showing absolute ineptitude. It is quite obvious that Harbaugh has no intention of firing the guy. We have an o-line coach that you could make an easy case for firing him based on performance, but sadly, you have a slam dunk reason to fire him based on behavior. Harbaugh is not capable of pulling the trigger and firing a fellow coach, and it's a problem. It is not the owner's job to do that for him, and it could be detrimental to the team for an owner to do that. Owner's have egos, and sometimes when they make the right call it goes to their heads. The death of the Orioles happened when Angelos made one good call by overriding Gillick on trading Bonilla. After that Pete thought he knew more than the baseball guys.

The bottom line is that if Harbaugh can't see, or refuses to accept, that these guys are holding the team back, then Harbaugh is actually holding the team back.

Whatever, if we would have scored just 4 more points, give up 4 fewer, or a comibination of the two, this board would be rejoicing and singing the praises of the team while the Steelers board would be melting down asking for the dismantlement of the team.

**JohnBKistler** · 12-03-2012, 05:04 PM

Originally Posted by B-more Ravor

Do you really think Billick was going to come out and publicly say that his good friend had a drinking problem and wasn't working hard?

Here is what Fassel is up to these days:

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/16/sp...pagewanted=all

It says that Fassel and Billick - who were friends - have not spoken since he got fired from the Ravens. Seems like his credibility in the league is shot.