Overpaying Flacco could sink the Ravens

[leachisabeast]

Exactly. They lost to the 49'ers, Eagles, Saints, and Packers in a row. In that time Eli was going through one of his normal mid-to-late season "slumps" where he throws as many touchdowns as interceptions and doesn't look good.

Losing 4 games in a row is something Flacco has never done.

I don't know what team you were watching, but the Giants looked dominant both sides of the ball going into the play offs down the stretch regardless of their record.

[Haloti92]

Not that I necessarily disagree with you, but had David Tyree not made a ridiculously impossible catch in the 2007 Super Bowl...would Eli Manning really be thought of as a "clutch" QB?

Eli performed a miracle avoiding a sack on that play where the line gave him no help. He didn't turtle and he stepped up in the pocket despite the fact the DE beelined to where his dropback ended. He then was grabbed and didn't turtle but escaped. Tyree had nothing to do with that part of the play. And if Eli was our Qb and had been sacked, people would simply say "Oher sucks, Eli had no chance."

As for the "catch" it is one where it hit both of his hands. Routinely around here more difficult circumstances that result in an incompletion are labeled and bemoaned as "drops." I think that was a great catch and very difficult and had he dropped it I wouldn't call it a drop.

But overall, I agree with your premise. Had his teammates performed worse (or less well) than they did on that play then maybe they don't win (would have been 4th and 5) and who knows what Eli is known as. But it is hard to use "what ifs" when arguing things as complicated as a football result, because it can lead one to conclude anything depending on which "what if" you use.

Immaculate reception, Dwight Clark, Santonio Holmes, you can go on and on.

What if Evans holds on to the ball? Flacco hero. What if Brady throws a TD right after Joe's 4th quarter pick instead of interception? Flacco not a hero. There are also always more than one play on which the outcome of the game can swing.

[StingerNLG]

I don't know what team you were watching, but the Giants looked dominant both sides of the ball going into the play offs down the stretch regardless of their record.

A dominant team that lost to the Redskins 23-10 in game 14, where Eli was outplayed by REX GROSSMAN? (Sounding familiar, huh?). Where Eli threw 3 picks and no TD's? That's dominant?

Or maybe that super dominant performance by "Elite" Eli in the Jets game the next week where he was 9-27 for 225 with one TD and one INT. The only thing separating his performance from Mark Sanchez was the second pick Shanchez threw.

Dominant huh? I've never heard a 9-7 team be called dominant before.

[JAB1985]

Eli is a two time SB champion, and possibly the best QB in the last 10 years in the clutch. The difference between Eli in a normal regular season game with nothing to play for other than a win, and Eli in the 4th quarter of a play off game is night and day.

Yes, Flacco has had big QB drives in his time too, but not to the level of Eli.

couple of things here Leach. One if were going to call him an ELite QB because he won a SB and "clutch" than Trent Dilfer is also Elite because he won a SB and made plays when he needed to like i stated before. So I dont think just winning a superbowl is the end all be all to being Elite. Peyton was "elite" long before he even won a playoff game and id argue he struggled with being "clutch" early in his career as well.

Winning in the regular season vs the playoffs... well you have to do one to even get to the other so by not being good or "clutch" in the regular season that would really hamper ones ability to be so in the playoffs. The drive that makes the ELites elite are what separates them and never do they not have that drive to win like youre describing here. They can elevate there game but regular season game on the line vs playoff game on the line are typically handled the same way by Brady, Peyton, Brees and Rodgers (not to mention a few others that arent in the conversation). Im not sure 2 plays in the SB really make up for the years of ill timed turnovers and overall piss poor performances in important games.

Flacco having big drives but not compared to Eli? we know of Eli's big moments because they came in the SB but im curious if youve dissected his mishaps as much as Flaccos. Or Bradys or Mannings or anybody elses for that matter. Clearly youre leaving out that fact that even the greats miss wide open receivers from time to time so im not sure why his are being weighed so heavily in games he won compared to others who youre comparing him to. Eli played somewhat poorly against the pats in his first game especially if you take away that spectacular grab. in the second one he played as well as Flacco did who youre criticizing his "good performance".

Im not really making a case for Flacco to be considered Elite, but if youre going to call Eli elite than theres not really much of an argument to not call Flacco as well.

[PerpetuallyBored74]

In the 1st game in Cincy, did Flacco look elite or not?

You know, when we actually used a smart gameplan, that included short routes and even--no no really I swear--routes across and over the middle of the field?

Of course, Cam being Cam, after seeing how well it was working in the first game and also the first half of the second game (Eagles) decided OK, we've shown the opposition enough of our "trick plays"; time to get back to doing what we do best as an offense--be so obvious and predictable that it comes down to whether or not the players can somehow execute.

Or have you not noticed that other than when we played the elite Brady, we haven't seen a variety of pass routes that use the entire field in any other game?
My theory is that Cam likes to save those routes as "trick plays"--which is stupid once the opposition figures it out and starts ignoring that part of the field to focus on defending the part that you're actually using AND YOU DON'T ADJUST TO TAKE ADVANTAGE.

Is it really that hard to understand that the Air Coryell is meant to do the same thing the WCO does? Stretch the defense. Difference is the WCO tries to do it horizontally (from sideline to sideline) while the AC tries to do it vertically (end zone to end zone). Of course to stretch the defense, YOU HAVE TO USE THE ENTIRE FIELD.

The idea that somehow both Cam and Harbs don't seem to realize this is disconcerting.

Just so we're clear, I don't know if Flacco is elite. But we have seen flashes when the gameplan has been workable. So maybe he is, maybe he isn't...who can tell when the gameplan & play calling are so maddeningly inconsistent.

[OriAl]

A dominant team that lost to the Redskins 23-10 in game 14, where Eli was outplayed by REX GROSSMAN? (Sounding familiar, huh?). Where Eli threw 3 picks and no TD's? That's dominant?

Or maybe that super dominant performance by "Elite" Eli in the Jets game the next week where he was 9-27 for 225 with one TD and one INT. The only thing separating his performance from Mark Sanchez was the second pick Shanchez threw.

Dominant huh? I've never heard a 9-7 team be called dominant before.

And let's not forget that if the entire NFC East doesn't stink last season, Eli's team doesn't even make the playoffs at 9-7. That's pretty lucky.

[Boulderraven]

Flacco isn't worth the investment. Anyone who can't see that doesn't know shit about football. I hope he never plays for the Ravens again. He's not very bright, not a leader and can't improvise.

[landspeed]

Wow

I'm not even going to bother to debate with someone who puts words in my damn mouth, yeah I've defended Harbaugh, but I've never defended Cam either.

And I don't see how stating the truth about Flacco is really such a negative thing? Being good is a good thing, he just isn't consistent enough to be elite, look how awful his pocket presence is at times, his footing is awful, which is one of the reasons he loses fumbles so many times. Go watch Peyton Manning in the pocket, then watch Flacco... I don't see how a system/scheme effects your pocket poise, Joe over throws receivers even when he has plenty of time, he just isn't that great as some people make him out to be around here.

How is this even truth? I have linked you before to Greg Cosell's take on our offense.

He said, and I quote, "I dont know if there is any QB in the league who could thrive in this offense."

Why do you keep making these remarks about Joe hitting his ceiling, when he has had 1 very bad OC under his tenure? An OC that calls plays where receivers cant get open? An OC that doesnt teach his WR's how to beat press coverage? An OC that doesnt cater to his QB's strengths?

[wickedsolo]

How is this even truth? I have linked you before to Greg Cosell's take on our offense.

He said, and I quote, "I dont know if there is any QB in the league who could thrive in this offense."

Why do you keep making these remarks about Joe hitting his ceiling, when he has had 1 very bad OC under his tenure? An OC that calls plays where receivers cant get open? An OC that doesnt teach his WR's how to beat press coverage? An OC that doesnt cater to his QB's strengths?

Because some fans - not saying leach is really like this - just can see the forest through the trees.

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