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  1. #49

    Re: Overpaying Flacco could sink the Ravens



    Quote Originally Posted by GOTA View Post
    I would not be shocked to see Flacco franchised and a QB drafted in the first 3 rounds. Then in 2014 they look at all the players they have at the position and pick 1.
    With or without Cameron?




  2. #50

    Re: Overpaying Flacco could sink the Ravens

    Quote Originally Posted by JohnBKistler View Post
    With or without Cameron?
    God I hope without!!!!!!




  3. #51
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    Re: Overpaying Flacco could sink the Ravens

    Quote Originally Posted by JohnBKistler View Post
    With or without Cameron?
    I thought Cam was a gonner last year. That was about the most confident I had have been in a move that I thought would happen. When it didn't happen and there was this lovefest between Cam, Joe and Harbaugh I realized that I have no idea what really goes on in Harbaugh's mind. I'd say it's better than 50/50 that Cam is extended after the season.
    He Who Dares.....Wins




  4. #52

    Re: Overpaying Flacco could sink the Ravens

    Quote Originally Posted by NCRAVEN View Post
    I don't think anyone could really argue against this. I mean Manning might make a few better decisions here and there, like choosing not to throw a deep ball, but everytime I see Joe chuck one deep, no one is really open underneath.
    Manning wouldn't be able to take the pounding Flacco has, either. He couldn't have taken it in his prime, let alone post-neck surgery.

    I don't think the Ravens are going to overpay Flacco. I don't think Flacco's going to demand being overpaid (within the milieu of professional football contracts, that is). Keep in mind that paying him top 5 money now isn't going to be a top 5 contract 2-3 years down the line, let alone at the back end of a 6 or 7 year deal. They could even perhaps go a bit nuts and sign him for 8 years.




  5. #53

    Re: Overpaying Flacco could sink the Ravens

    Quote Originally Posted by GOTA View Post
    I thought Cam was a gonner last year. That was about the most confident I had have been in a move that I thought would happen. When it didn't happen and there was this lovefest between Cam, Joe and Harbaugh I realized that I have no idea what really goes on in Harbaugh's mind. I'd say it's better than 50/50 that Cam is extended after the season.
    The reason I ask is that under your scenario (franchise tender with a rookie QB to compete with him), wouldn't it be very likely that Flacco holds out (or waits till as late as possible to sign his tender). Not exactly the ideal scenario with which to bring in a new OC/system.

    A small part of my brain is wondering if the Ravens (after 4 years of Flacco) have already made their decision with their "right player, right price" offer over the summer. I would never have said this a year ago, but is it possible they let him walk if he insists on the top-5 QB money?




  6. #54

    Re: Overpaying Flacco could sink the Ravens

    In the words of Woody Paige, "Why do I always have to straighten you guys out?".

    Where to begin? hhhhhhmmmmmmmm..............

    First off, I will agree with one thing from the masses, we will not truly be able to judge Joe Flacco until he gets into a better offense. Brees and Rivers both exploded when they separated from Cam Cameron.

    Second off, the man hasn't even entered his prime yet, and he's already shown that he can make 'the throw' to get his team to the Super Bowl. The fact that the pass was not completed, doesn't change the reality that he's already shown himself capable of making it, physically and psychologically.

    There aren't ten QBs in the league that have shown that they can make that throw.

    Third, you're not going to find many QBs as durable as Flacco. How many QBs do you know of that would have withstood the hits he's taken over the years?

    Again, right now, he is only an above average QB. However, HE HASN'T EVEN ENTERED HIS PRIME YET! Seriously! If the man can already help a team rack up W's like crazy and show that he can make 'the throw', in a poorly designed offensive scheme with a conservative philosophy that restricts him, what makes you think that he can't become an even better QB in a better system? Five years? Most QBs as good and durable as him can last ten to fifteen.

    Maybe Joe thinks more highly of himself than the statistics show, because he knows he'd be getting better statistics in a better system and with a better philosophy. So, he's saying that it's not his fault that the coaching staff has put forth this conservative approach, even after he's shown that he can be clutch. For the front office to hold that against him would be disrespectful, which is why they aren't. They're taking their just lumps on this one.

    There is a reason why Steve Bisciotti has sung Flacco's praises time and time again. He knows what he has. Joe knows what he can be.

    Joe was never given the opportunity to put up Elite numbers, because he was never asked to be or given the opportunity to truly be an Elite QB. He was asked to be the 'game manager', who had the ball taken out of his hands when things got tight, only for the coaching staff to return the ball to his hands and ask him to win the game when they were left with no other choice. That's not fair to Joe.

    You're going to sit here and say that he doesn't have elite numbers, when he doesn't even have elite support. Belichick puts the ball in Brady's hands, living and dying with Brady. Indianapolis did it with Manning. Now, Denver is doing it with Manning. Green Bay does it with Aaron Rodgers. It's live and die, it's cutthroat, it's trust and it's taking chances. Did Denver suddenly stop letting Manning throw after that 3 Int performance in Atlanta? No!

    Baltimore had better pay him well now, because if they try to be frugal with this one, they'll only be ponying up more when he does explode with a new offense.
    "When questioned, the Elders explained that they were in search of magical powers. However, they're actually searching for the whereabouts of a certain ring. This ring is a legendary treasure that long ago was known to exist"




  7. #55
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    Re: Overpaying Flacco could sink the Ravens

    Quote Originally Posted by GOTA View Post
    I thought Cam was a gonner last year. That was about the most confident I had have been in a move that I thought would happen. When it didn't happen and there was this lovefest between Cam, Joe and Harbaugh I realized that I have no idea what really goes on in Harbaugh's mind. I'd say it's better than 50/50 that Cam is extended after the season.
    There is a little more precedent for it now though. I think the problem was the team didn't want to make changes after a successful year. The old if ain't broke don't fix it approach. ATL ousted one of their coordinators and lost the other one, and they haven't missed a beat. And then the Steelers fired Bruce Arians in a year that they made the playoffs.




  8. #56

    Re: Overpaying Flacco could sink the Ravens

    Quote Originally Posted by The Excellector View Post
    First off, I will agree with one thing from the masses, we will not truly be able to judge Joe Flacco until he gets into a better offense. Brees and Rivers both exploded when they separated from Cam Cameron.
    Joe Flacco is not Drew Brees, or Phillip Rivers. Therefore, your certainty that the same thing that happened with DB and PR will happen with Flacco is an article of faith, not of fact. It may happen, or it may not. I think a lot of us have a lot less faith than you do.




  9. #57
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    Re: Overpaying Flacco could sink the Ravens

    Quote Originally Posted by redmike34 View Post
    Joe Flacco is not Drew Brees, or Phillip Rivers. Therefore, your certainty that the same thing that happened with DB and PR will happen with Flacco is an article of faith, not of fact. It may happen, or it may not. I think a lot of us have a lot less faith than you do.
    Your right he is not Drew or Phillip. You do not know untill it happens. Hell he could be better than both of them. One thing is for sure. Joe has never thrown 5 INT in one game.

    I am also pretty sure that Flacco's first 4+ years in the NFL has a better record than DB or PR.




  10. #58

    Re: Overpaying Flacco could sink the Ravens

    Quote Originally Posted by redmike34 View Post
    Joe Flacco is not Drew Brees, or Phillip Rivers. Therefore, your certainty that the same thing that happened with DB and PR will happen with Flacco is an article of faith, not of fact. It may happen, or it may not. I think a lot of us have a lot less faith than you do.
    Rivers and Brees weren't Rivers and Brees under Cam Cameron. How quickly people forget that. Brees was getting run out of San Diego, on what everyone thought was a bum shoulder. Rivers was a victim of Martyball and Cameron's poor playcalling in the playoffs. When Brees hit FA, there were only two teams that even offered him a contract.
    "When questioned, the Elders explained that they were in search of magical powers. However, they're actually searching for the whereabouts of a certain ring. This ring is a legendary treasure that long ago was known to exist"




  11. #59

    Re: Overpaying Flacco could sink the Ravens

    Quote Originally Posted by GOTA View Post
    I would not be shocked to see Flacco franchised and a QB drafted in the first 3 rounds. Then in 2014 they look at all the players they have at the position and pick 1.
    I doubt they'd take a QB in the first given they have more pressing needs, but the more I think about it the more I really wouldn't be all that surprised or opposed to a QB relatively early in the draft. They need a better backup than Tyrod and they'd do well to have SOME sort of actual NFL-caliber prospect in both the short and long term.

    The only problem is, this is a terrible, awful, no-good draft for QBs. Only Smith and Barkley are 1st round locks, Tyler Wilson is more of a 2nd rounder but will probably go in the 1st, and the guys that come after that have major question marks.

    You could also see a similar situation to 2010 where a ton of QBs who did not grade out as 1st rounders (Locker, Ponder, Gabbert) all went VERY early because there were a lot of desperate teams--similar to this year. If something like that happens the Ravens need to stick to BPA instead of trying to force a QB.

    All in all, guys who could be BPA and worth drafting at QB in the 2nd or 3rd are Tyler Bray, Mike Glennon, and Landry Jones. None of them are superior prospects, but the guy I actually like a lot is Mike Glennon.




  12. #60

    Re: Overpaying Flacco could sink the Ravens

    Quote Originally Posted by The Excellector View Post
    Rivers and Brees weren't Rivers and Brees under Cam Cameron. How quickly people forget that. Brees was getting run out of San Diego, on what everyone thought was a bum shoulder. Rivers was a victim of Martyball and Cameron's poor playcalling in the playoffs. When Brees hit FA, there were only two teams that even offered him a contract.
    If the Ravens keep Flacco, I hope he throws for a bajillion yards, wins 10 Super Bowls and winds up owning Disneyland. However, a lot of people on here think that what happened with DB and PR wrt Cam automatically means the same thing will happen with Flacco. It doesn't, and thinking that it does is dangerous (at least, if you're a decision maker in the Ravens FO).

    What if the reason that Cam hasn't been replaced yet is because the FO has been unable to locate anyone willing to take the job who would be an actual improvement? What if that continues this year? What does that say about this situation, and the franchise in general, if that's the case?

    What are you gonna say if they do find someone they think is better, but the situation as it stands in re Flacco's performance continues?

    Whatever happens, I hope it's for the best for the franchise. However, while I can understand the reasons for your belief that Flacco will do better without Cam, I also understand that the reasons behind your belief are not necessarily valid.




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