FILMSTUDY: Offensive line model and notes vs. Steelers 12/2/12

**wickedsolo** · 12-06-2012, 09:10 PM

Originally Posted by landspeed

Fact - they wanted him to lose more weight and get into better shape than he was last year.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d...re-ravens-camp

It seems as if the ravens organization doesnt think LT's are allowed to be injured

He lost weight right after the season and was able to get the roster bonus, which was $500k.

However, when he reported to OTA's it was evident that he had lost weight, but hadnt really been working on getting into shape.

There is a difference.

At the end of the day, McKinnie just isnt reliable, takes plays off, and generally isnt interested in playing. Hell, even his own teammates have made statements that they don't even believe he really likes playing football, but it is easy money for him.

I was stoked when they signed him last year and I was really hoping that he would get it together enough to be a fixture for a few years, but you cant make a 33 year old man give a shit if he doesnt want to.

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**bmorecareful** · 12-06-2012, 09:31 PM

Until very recently I felt that this team's best OL configuration had Oher at LT and McKinnie on the bench. However, the reasons that I believed made that our best OL are no longer valid.

Oher has not improved at all. Birk has been bad this year and is trending even further downward. They're not even running a no-huddle, uptempo offense anymore (I believe they've taken no more than 4 or 5 snaps out of the no-huddle since the bye.) This situation is approaching critical mass. I think currently our 5 best offensive linemen are, in this order: Yanda, Osemele, McKinnie, Oher, Reid. Is there a way to assemble an OL of our 5 best players?

LT-McKinnie LG-Reid C-Yanda RG-Osemele RT-Oher

I'm sure Osemele could kick inside to right guard at a high level. Yanda took snaps at center in the past and I'm sure he's able to play the position. Oher is best at RT, Reid has been acceptable at LG, and McKinnie is this team's best LT.

**Ravenswintitle** · 12-06-2012, 09:35 PM

Remember that was against the #1 defense

**leachisabeast** · 12-07-2012, 05:19 AM

Originally Posted by bmorecareful

Until very recently I felt that this team's best OL configuration had Oher at LT and McKinnie on the bench. However, the reasons that I believed made that our best OL are no longer valid.

Oher has not improved at all. Birk has been bad this year and is trending even further downward. They're not even running a no-huddle, uptempo offense anymore (I believe they've taken no more than 4 or 5 snaps out of the no-huddle since the bye.) This situation is approaching critical mass. I think currently our 5 best offensive linemen are, in this order: Yanda, Osemele, McKinnie, Oher, Reid. Is there a way to assemble an OL of our 5 best players?

LT-McKinnie LG-Reid C-Yanda RG-Osemele RT-Oher

I'm sure Osemele could kick inside to right guard at a high level. Yanda took snaps at center in the past and I'm sure he's able to play the position. Oher is best at RT, Reid has been acceptable at LG, and McKinnie is this team's best LT.

YES, this is what I have been saying too.

Our best possible line would be just that, you get all the weak links out and now you have a big tough unit up front. Yanda isn't going to get pushed back at center, Jah Reid has shown that he has great potential at guard, and KO is a future star. Oher can be a good RT, and McKinnie isn't great but in pass pro he can give Joe more time than what Oher can.

**Filmstudy** · 12-07-2012, 06:31 AM

Originally Posted by Ravenswintitle

that's a backhanded insult if you ask me. not dangerously misthrown? In other words no one could catch them

I should clarify, since it obviously wasn't clear as written...

That was intended purely as a compliment. Flacco had no really poorly thrown deep balls would have been a better way to say it.

--The throws were primarily into single coverage.
--The balls were in line with the receiver, with no dangerous throws to the inside where a safety could make a play.
--Underthrown balls are good for PI and difficult to intercept if the receiver is right there, but the most poorly thrown of these deep balls was the underthrow at the goal line where Flacco had lots of space deeper and to the right in the end zone for Smith to run under it.

**Filmstudy** · 12-07-2012, 06:35 AM

I thought folks might like the expected yards stuff at the end, but if you want to think about it in general, a simple rule of thumb is that you'll replicate Joe's yards for the year by taking:

ATS opportunities X 9 + non-ATS opportunities X 3.5

So each ATS opportunity generated by the line has been worth approximately 5.5 yards.

**bmorecareful** · 12-07-2012, 07:07 AM

Originally Posted by leachisabeast

YES, this is what I have been saying too.

Our best possible line would be just that, you get all the weak links out and now you have a big tough unit up front. Yanda isn't going to get pushed back at center, Jah Reid has shown that he has great potential at guard, and KO is a future star. Oher can be a good RT, and McKinnie isn't great but in pass pro he can give Joe more time than what Oher can.

Yeah, you were talking about moving Yanda to C in the past and I wasn't for it, but now I've come around. I still think you're going to lose some run blocking because Yanda is basically the anchor point of the entire line at RG, and he won't be able to do that as much at C, but Birk is just playing at a very uneven and overall unacceptable level right now.

I don't actually expect the Ravens to do that unfortunately. They seem 100% committed to the OL as it is, including McKinnie on the bench. I guess you could argue that they have a much clearer picture since they're seeing what's happening in practice every week, but still, I REALLY find it hard to believe that this OL couldn't be better with personnel changes.

**JustaslowZ06** · 12-07-2012, 07:43 AM

Originally Posted by wickedsolo

Haha. Ok.

You're probably right. Why would any coach actually want to field the best team? To hell with that. If you are not one of the boys, you dont play. Doesn't matter how much effort you put into it because if the coach doesnt like you then you wont play.

Makes sense.

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Plenty of coaches will ride or die just to save face or something. Ahem Billick with Boller just as an example.

**wickedsolo** · 12-07-2012, 08:02 AM

Originally Posted by JustaslowZ06

Plenty of coaches will ride or die just to save face or something. Ahem Billick with Boller just as an example.

I don't disagree with you that there are some circumstances, but at the time who was better on the team? Anthony Wright? Well, Billick went with him for quite some time. Billick also went with Steve McNair for a few seasons too. So, he obviously saw an issue and tried to adjust.

I legitimately think - wrong or right - that Harbaugh feels that McKinnie is not one of the 5 best OL'men on the team.

**GOTA** · 12-07-2012, 09:07 AM

Originally Posted by wickedsolo

I don't disagree with you that there are some circumstances, but at the time who was better on the team? Anthony Wright? Well, Billick went with him for quite some time. Billick also went with Steve McNair for a few seasons too. So, he obviously saw an issue and tried to adjust.

I legitimately think - wrong or right - that Harbaugh feels that McKinnie is not one of the 5 best OL'men on the team.

Coaches need to play their best players. They get fired very quickly these days. The Seahawks traded for a QB, paid him good money and then cut him despite that investment. They then paid up for one of the top free agents QBs on the market. They ended up going with a rookie 3rd round pick. It didn't matter how much the spent in cap and picks for the other guys. Carroll needed to win so he played the guy he thought gave him the best chance to win.

I completely agree with you that is what Harbaugh is doing with McKinnie. He feels that he has better options and so he's going with them.

**bmorecareful** · 12-07-2012, 09:25 AM

Originally Posted by GOTA

Coaches need to play their best players. They get fired very quickly these days. The Seahawks traded for a QB, paid him good money and then cut him despite that investment. They then paid up for one of the top free agents QBs on the market. They ended up going with a rookie 3rd round pick. It didn't matter how much the spent in cap and picks for the other guys. Carroll needed to win so he played the guy he thought gave him the best chance to win.

I completely agree with you that is what Harbaugh is doing with McKinnie. He feels that he has better options and so he's going with them.

Not to nitpick, but Pete Carroll is a special case. Throughout his entire coaching career he has made it clear that every roster spot is open to competition at all times and he actually means it. Carroll is also totally unconcerned with how other teams perceive his personnel actions, almost all of his draft picks are total head scratchers and outrageous reaches. He marches to the beat of his own drum and always has.

The thing coaches care about most is keeping their jobs. Winning lots of games is the best way to do that 90% of the time. But there's a lot more that goes into coaches decision-making process than just the immediate short-term of "how do I maximize our chance of winning the next game." I could write a very long post about it but there are very good reasons a coach may choose not to play a better player, especially if there's not a huge talent difference between a player and his replacement.

A coach might bench a player to send a message to his team, if he feels the benefit of getting that message through is greater than the immediate benefit of having him on the field. He might want to minimize the risk of being held accountable for a decision that might be perceived as "risky." And once the decision is made, to backtrack on it makes him look like he made the wrong decision in the first place.

I've seen more than enough from Harbaugh and his coaching staff to lead me to believe that they are not comfortable being questioned and they fear being blamed for team failures. Hence the constant harping about the players executing, the blame-shifting for questionable decisions, among other things. And I'm not a guy who is particularly harsh on Harbaugh at all, he's not unlike many other coaches in this respect.

**Rxdoxx** · 12-07-2012, 09:51 AM

The main problem is Birk.
McKinnie won't make that great of difference if we subscribe to the chain is as strong as its weakest link. Putting McKinnie in scrambles positions but leaves the battered body that just can't do it anymore right in the center of the line.
Now if Jah or KO or Yanda could snap.......
I'm not sure Gino is a bad option..... we lose a ton of experience but regain the physical presence, can anyone else make the line calls of does it have to be the C?

**RavensNTerps** · 12-07-2012, 10:26 AM

Originally Posted by TL24x7

The Ravens threw a number of deep balls because the Steelers, due to both injury and defensive scheme, dared them to do so. While the result wasn’t a Ravens’ win, I’d be much more concerned if the team was unwilling to take such risks.

For the individual scoring and other offensive notes click HERE

Exactly what I have been saying about the game plan.

**Teavo** · 12-07-2012, 10:29 AM

Originally Posted by TL24x7

Did the Ravens throw the ball deep too often on Sunday?

...

Flacco was 2 of 8 for 58 yards plus a 30-yard PI with a 1 TD, 0 INT on his deep balls

Interesting. For kicks, if we count the PI as a completed 30 yard pass, Joe's deep-ball stats would be 3 of 9 for 88 yards, 1 TD, 0 INT.

That's a passer rating of 107.6 and that even includes a Torrey drop. So I guess that answers the question: no, the Ravens did not throw the ball deep too often on Sunday.

**Thrall** · 12-07-2012, 10:59 AM

Next year I would like to see KO, Oher, Gradkowski, Yanda, Reid.
Hoping for Gradkowski to bulk up, and I think KO can be really good at LT. I think Wicked was the first to float the Oher to gaurd idea, I like that idea, think he could be an all pro gaurd. I also think Jah could handle RT, he has the frame for it. I don't like moving Yanda, he's our best lineman.

**Tucker: M&T Sec 527** · 12-07-2012, 11:22 AM

Originally Posted by wickedsolo

.

Fact - they wanted him to lose more weight and get into better shape than he was last year.
Fact - he didnt achieve that. That is why they held him out during OTA's.
Fact - he not only failed to show up on time to training camp, but the guy also didnt even notify them of what was going on.
Fact - he had his chiropractor call Harbs and tell him that he would report soon and was resting his back because he slipped and fell right before training camp.
Fact - when he reported to training camp he was not in good shape and was still hurt, ergo he couldn't practice nor play in any games until the 3rd pre season game IIRC.
Fact - KO played pretty damn well at RT during pre-season. They werent expecting that. They were expecting him to play LG.
Fact - Oher played pretty well this pre-season at LT and unlike McKinnie was in excellent shape and could handle the rigors of a high paced up tempo offense.
Fact - McKinnie is by far the better tackle, but hasnt put forth any effort whatsoever to make the coaches reconsider the starting OL.

Fact: He was deep in hock, salary garnished, approaching a playing time bonus, IIRC. The Ravens could have hoped this would be an incentive for McKinnie. Now it's hard to blame them for not wanting to reward McK's behavior

Those are the real reasons why McKinnie is riding the pine. Whether or not folks want to accept it, that's the way it is.

Is Oher great? Hell no. But he is in great shape, wants to get better, and is reliable. He has also improved greatly in a lot of aspects.

True Dat. Hard not to side w/ Oher as an employee when compared to the work culture of Gaither and/or McKinnie.

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**saintmatthew** · 12-07-2012, 11:25 AM

I'm not saying the gameplan couldn't have been more efficient, but I have yet to hear anyone bring up the previous two weeks schedule in regards to this loss. Sunday night road trip at Steelers, WC trip to SD that goes almost to the end of OT, and then another Steelers game. No one expected 3-0 from this 3 week stretch until Big ben went down. Maybe fatigue played a part in their focus?

**CRZA938** · 12-08-2012, 07:51 AM

Originally Posted by houstonravensfan

Film, this was even better than usual.

Back OT . . . the OL. Very poor performance from Birk and Oher. I suppose we can BLAME CAM, because he is in charge of the O overall and thus is Moeller's boss, but forget the blame. The OL is the foundation and our is cracked. Sure, Joe takes too much time to throw, but the O line sometimes gives too little time for ANYONE to throw. And the O line is partially to blame for too many 2nd and 8s and 9s -- Rice often runs into a wall instead of a hole, because there ARE NO holes. Then Joe is forced to throw,and the D knows it, and the O line can't give him enough time, ad infinitum, ad nauseum.

Assuming we resign Flacco (I'm for it) we need to give him even better suppport than he has now. That means a better O line.

While fair to a point, good OC's adjust by max protecting or calling shorter patterns.

**CRZA938** · 12-08-2012, 07:58 AM

Nice to see Osemele play a great game.

**JustaslowZ06** · 12-08-2012, 08:23 AM

Originally Posted by wickedsolo

I don't disagree with you that there are some circumstances, but at the time who was better on the team? Anthony Wright? Well, Billick went with him for quite some time. Billick also went with Steve McNair for a few seasons too. So, he obviously saw an issue and tried to adjust.

I legitimately think - wrong or right - that Harbaugh feels that McKinnie is not one of the 5 best OL'men on the team.

During one of our down years and a good slot in the first round why didn't they pull the trigger on a QB? I could always look and see who was available and so on but they didn't, UNTIL Boller's contract was up than they wen't with McNair. But Billick stuck by Boller, mif I remember Wright only played when Boller was hurt.