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  1. #1
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    DC is Now the One Lone Area of the Country ....



    .... that has a total ban on carrying concealed.

    http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...e-big-targets/

    Chicago was the second to last. I am sure the fact these two cities are consistently ranked as two of the most dangerous cities in America is purely coincidental to their strict stance on carrying a weapon.
    WARNING: This post may contain material offensive to those who lack wit, humor, common sense and/or supporting factual or anecdotal evidence. All statements and assertions contained herein may be subject to literary devices not limited to: irony, metaphor, allusion and dripping sarcasm.




  2. #2
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    Re: DC is Now the One Lone Area of the Country ....

    "More guns less crime"

    We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid. - Benjamin Franklin




  3. #3

    Re: DC is Now the One Lone Area of the Country ....

    Quote Originally Posted by HoustonRaven View Post
    .... that has a total ban on carrying concealed.

    http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...e-big-targets/

    Chicago was the second to last. I am sure the fact these two cities are consistently ranked as two of the most dangerous cities in America is purely coincidental to their strict stance on carrying a weapon.
    I dont understand why carrying concealed would be illegal, I prefer it to open carrying. Draws less attention and if its your choice to protect yourself, it shouldnt make others uneasy. Concealing shouldn't be an issue and this doesnt make any sense to me.

    Chicago, NY, LA, DC,... theyre the biggest cities in the country and thats always a hot bed for violent crimes so theyre going to rank high regardless of the states laws. In DC's case its a city but compared to state wide and will always be considerably higher. Crime might be down in general in relaxed gun law states, but I dont think the numbers support that Firearm assaults/deaths arent up in those areas. I found the links below when looking for your stated rankings, unfortunately I think it tells a different story.

    map-us-firearms-assaults.jpg

    firearm-death-rate-100000

    Maybe im missing something though?
    -JAB




  4. #4
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    Re: DC is Now the One Lone Area of the Country ....

    Since neither of those links gives any sort of accurate and / or scientific source, I question their validity. I am arguing (and others have proven) that more guns means less violent crime per capita. I am NOT arguing the rate of firearms related deaths. The links are skewed as both take into account suicides and defensive uses of a weapon where someone was killed (i.e. cop shootings, people protecting their homes, etc.).

    Economists such as Dr. John Lott, Dr. Bruce Benson, et all have published numerous studies detailing this phenomenon. Milton Friedman, hardly a right-wingers buddy, gave a resounding endorsement to the idea of "more guns, less crime". But if you happen to feel they're too biased one way or another, do you're own research.

    Just look at the FBI's Uniform Crime Reports (or UCR's) and do a state by state comparison. You'll quickly discover what he and other Economists have proven.
    WARNING: This post may contain material offensive to those who lack wit, humor, common sense and/or supporting factual or anecdotal evidence. All statements and assertions contained herein may be subject to literary devices not limited to: irony, metaphor, allusion and dripping sarcasm.




  5. #5

    Re: DC is Now the One Lone Area of the Country ....

    Quote Originally Posted by HoustonRaven View Post
    Since neither of those links gives any sort of accurate and / or scientific source, I question their validity. I am arguing (and others have proven) that more guns means less violent crime per capita. I am NOT arguing the rate of firearms related deaths. The links are skewed as both take into account suicides and defensive uses of a weapon where someone was killed (i.e. cop shootings, people protecting their homes, etc.).

    Economists such as Dr. John Lott, Dr. Bruce Benson, et all have published numerous studies detailing this phenomenon. Milton Friedman, hardly a right-wingers buddy, gave a resounding endorsement to the idea of "more guns, less crime". But if you happen to feel they're too biased one way or another, do you're own research.

    Just look at the FBI's Uniform Crime Reports (or UCR's) and do a state by state comparison. You'll quickly discover what he and other Economists have proven.
    Those stats are basically what those maps were based off of, Although from 2006 and i believe 2010. I looked the site up directly and compared relaxed states like Texas and Arizona to strict ones like and NY IL and MA and its pretty much identical. Im not sure I see those findings based on what these are saying. Basically its supporting that violent crimes are going to happen in populated areas regardless of gun laws.

    http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr...tables/table-5
    -JAB




  6. #6
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    Re: DC is Now the One Lone Area of the Country ....

    You're looking at numbers.

    Again, its the "rates" of violent crime. This is calculated "per capita". Meaning, at what rate does violent crime occur per 100,000 people.

    Per capita is a statistical tool Economists use to take into account population variances between two or more areas, in this case, states.
    WARNING: This post may contain material offensive to those who lack wit, humor, common sense and/or supporting factual or anecdotal evidence. All statements and assertions contained herein may be subject to literary devices not limited to: irony, metaphor, allusion and dripping sarcasm.




  7. #7

    Re: DC is Now the One Lone Area of the Country ....

    Quote Originally Posted by HoustonRaven View Post
    You're looking at numbers.

    Again, its the "rates" of violent crime. This is calculated "per capita". Meaning, at what rate does violent crime occur per 100,000 people.

    Per capita is a statistical tool Economists use to take into account population variances between two or more areas, in this case, states.
    No, thats what im going off of.

    Arizona = 405
    Cali = 411
    DC = 1211
    IL= 429
    Mass = 428
    NM = 567
    NY = 398
    Texas = 408
    -JAB




  8. #8
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    Re: DC is Now the One Lone Area of the Country ....

    Quote Originally Posted by JAB1985 View Post
    No, thats what im going off of.

    Arizona = 405
    Cali = 411
    DC = 1211
    IL= 429
    Mass = 428
    NM = 567
    NY = 398
    Texas = 408
    I see what you're looking at now.

    Yes, some states are close, but I think DC and NM prove my overall point. We all know DC laws and NM is particularly difficult to actually carry since they have preemption, meaning each county can deny the permit holder from carrying. So if you drive from Taos to Albuquerque, you're going to pass through many jurisdictions doing different things.
    WARNING: This post may contain material offensive to those who lack wit, humor, common sense and/or supporting factual or anecdotal evidence. All statements and assertions contained herein may be subject to literary devices not limited to: irony, metaphor, allusion and dripping sarcasm.




  9. #9

    Re: DC is Now the One Lone Area of the Country ....

    Quote Originally Posted by HoustonRaven View Post
    I see what you're looking at now.

    Yes, some states are close, but I think DC and NM prove my overall point. We all know DC laws and NM is particularly difficult to actually carry since they have preemption, meaning each county can deny the permit holder from carrying. So if you drive from Taos to Albuquerque, you're going to pass through many jurisdictions doing different things.
    Id take DC off this completely personally. Unless comparing Cities, its really not fair to compare the crime rate in a city vs an entire state. Urban areas always are going to be higher and in state wide the rural areas bring that stat down.

    Im not familiar with preemption at all, but I do know that NM is pretty relaxed on gun laws overall, only requiring a permit to carry a handgun and not much else. I just had to look it up after see that high number. I guess Walter White is making his mark.

    Do you know if the Data those others used was 1 year or over a selected period? obviously these numbers are variable on a year to year basis, and id be curious if the year or years they did their research hold true to a larger sample. Could be completely correct but unfortunate in the data collection.

    I dont think this really shows anything for either side is all im seeing when two of the most populated states, Ny and Tx, with completely different laws are so similar in end result. Theres just as many states with similar gun laws as those above, whether strict or relaxed, that have half the crime rate of the ones mentioned as well. Both arguments could likely use the same data as for or against from what the numbers i see.
    -JAB




  10. #10
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    Re: DC is Now the One Lone Area of the Country ....

    Quote Originally Posted by JAB1985 View Post
    Id take DC off this completely personally. Unless comparing Cities, its really not fair to compare the crime rate in a city vs an entire state. Urban areas always are going to be higher and in state wide the rural areas bring that stat down.

    Im not familiar with preemption at all, but I do know that NM is pretty relaxed on gun laws overall, only requiring a permit to carry a handgun and not much else. I just had to look it up after see that high number. I guess Walter White is making his mark.

    Do you know if the Data those others used was 1 year or over a selected period? obviously these numbers are variable on a year to year basis, and id be curious if the year or years they did their research hold true to a larger sample. Could be completely correct but unfortunate in the data collection.

    I dont think this really shows anything for either side is all im seeing when two of the most populated states, Ny and Tx, with completely different laws are so similar in end result. Theres just as many states with similar gun laws as those above, whether strict or relaxed, that have half the crime rate of the ones mentioned as well. Both arguments could likely use the same data as for or against from what the numbers i see.
    This book is the third edition and I believe the data is over a looooong period, combining it with the data from previous editions.

    http://www.amazon.com/More-Guns-Less.../dp/0226493660

    On its initial publication in 1998, John R. Lott’s More Guns, Less Crime drew both lavish praise and heated criticism. More than a decade later, it continues to play a key role in ongoing arguments over gun-control laws: despite all the attacks by gun-control advocates, no one has ever been able to refute Lott’s simple, startling conclusion that more guns mean less crime. Relying on the most rigorously comprehensive data analysis ever conducted on crime statistics and right-to-carry laws, the book directly challenges common perceptions about the relationship of guns, crime, and violence. For this third edition, Lott draws on an additional ten years of data—including provocative analysis of the effects of gun bans in Chicago and Washington, D.C—that brings the book fully up to date and further bolsters its central contention.
    We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid. - Benjamin Franklin




  11. #11
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    Re: DC is Now the One Lone Area of the Country ....

    Quote Originally Posted by JAB1985 View Post
    Id take DC off this completely personally. Unless comparing Cities, its really not fair to compare the crime rate in a city vs an entire state. Urban areas always are going to be higher and in state wide the rural areas bring that stat down.
    That's fair.

    I think if you took the time and did comparisons, you'd see the theory plays out there as well. Take Chicago v. Houston for example. Both are 3rd and 4th in population, respectively, yet Chicago has far more violent crime per capita than Houston, particular murder rates.

    Quote Originally Posted by JAB1985 View Post
    Im not familiar with preemption at all, but I do know that NM is pretty relaxed on gun laws overall, only requiring a permit to carry a handgun and not much else. I just had to look it up after see that high number. I guess Walter White is making his mark.
    Preemption means each jurisdiction can say weather or not you can carry, regardless of a permit. NY has something similar. You can go ahead and get a NM permit with relative ease, but good luck carrying in the ABQ. The city has numerous restrictions that make it almost impossible to carry in the city limits.

    Nice "Breaking Bad" reference, btw ...

    Quote Originally Posted by JAB1985 View Post
    Do you know if the Data those others used was 1 year or over a selected period? obviously these numbers are variable on a year to year basis, and id be curious if the year or years they did their research hold true to a larger sample. Could be completely correct but unfortunate in the data collection.
    "More Guns, Less Crime" and it's follow up book "The Bias Against Guns" used multiple years and, IIRC, go all the way back to 1996. Both books' data has been replicated numerous times and the former book was the one that got the endorsement from Milton Friedman.

    Quote Originally Posted by JAB1985 View Post
    I dont think this really shows anything for either side is all im seeing when two of the most populated states, Ny and Tx, with completely different laws are so similar in end result. Theres just as many states with similar gun laws as those above, whether strict or relaxed, that have half the crime rate of the ones mentioned as well. Both arguments could likely use the same data as for or against from what the numbers i see.
    NY and TX are actually similar in their laws. The only difference between TX and NY are preemption laws. You cannot carry in NYC, because of said preemption.

    In both states you have to pass a background check, submit fingerprints, attend a training class and qualify with your weapon before you receive your permit.
    WARNING: This post may contain material offensive to those who lack wit, humor, common sense and/or supporting factual or anecdotal evidence. All statements and assertions contained herein may be subject to literary devices not limited to: irony, metaphor, allusion and dripping sarcasm.




  12. #12
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    Re: DC is Now the One Lone Area of the Country ....

    Look at Japan and their strict gun laws. I'm not advocating the US adopt this policy, the US and Japan are 2 totally different societies... however one can't argue with their results.

    http://www.theatlantic.com/internati...deaths/260189/

    To get a gun in Japan, first, you have to attend an all-day class and pass a written test, which are held only once per month. You also must take and pass a shooting range class. Then, head over to a hospital for a mental test and drug test (Japan is unusual in that potential gun owners must affirmatively prove their mental fitness), which you'll file with the police. Finally, pass a rigorous background check for any criminal record or association with criminal or extremist groups, and you will be the proud new owner of your shotgun or air rifle. Just don't forget to provide police with documentation on the specific location of the gun in your home, as well as the ammo, both of which must be locked and stored separately. And remember to have the police inspect the gun once per year and to re-take the class and exam every three years.


    I don't see the US ever getting laws that rival that.
    "I got this." - Justin Tucker




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