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  1. #1669

    Re: New draft/FA/offseason thread



    Quote Originally Posted by bmorecareful View Post
    You're not mad. I also wondered how it was possible for Greene to be leap-frogged by Greene. He must have had a really great Senior Bowl.

    I think he meant Minter being leap-frogged by Greene... which I don't see happening, frankly. I'm actually not super-nuts about Minter as a prospect, but I think he's more scheme versatile than Greene. He can play 4-3 Mike or 3-4 ILB and probably also 4-3 SAM. A lot of teams might see Greene as a 4-3 Will only or nickel LB only. I think Minter also shows very well on tape against top competition pretty consistently while Greene didn't really dominate any good teams at Rutgers.

    At this point I would not be interested in a MLB at #31 or #32 unless the draft shakes out really weirdly. I think OL, FS, and even WR are all more likely picks than ILB. At this point I'm really feeling that the Ravens could strongly consider a WR like DeAndre Hopkins at that spot depending on who's there.
    I heard Mayock...who is one of the few TV draft guys I totally respect and value his opinion...say that he is hearing that Greene could be a first round pick and in Mayock's eyes, he is a first round pick based on his tape.

    I was pretty shocked when I heard him say that.
    Although Walsh's system of offense can compensate for lack of talent; however, defense is a different story. According to Walsh, talent on defense was essential and could not be compensated for. What did Walsh do in 1981? He acquired physical and talented players on defense.




  2. #1670
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    Re: New draft/FA/offseason thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Raveninwoodlawn View Post
    Why do people keep assuming Kelly NEEDS a running QB?

    Everything I've heard about him says that he is more than capable of adapting his system to any type of QB (and other personnel).

    He is going to keep Foles and Foles will likely be given every opportunity to be his starter.
    There is a difference between "need" and "want".

    Sure, Kelly can develop an offense around Nick Foles, but he'd probably rather develop an offense around a mobile QB.
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  3. #1671
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    Re: New draft/FA/offseason thread

    bmorecareful says....


    5) Arizona Cardinals - Trade for Nick Foles (good fit for Arians' offense) ......

    After getting curb-stomped in the Kolb deal with Philly I'm not thinking AZ is going to be dialing up the "215" anytime soon.
    Last edited by jaydee414; 01-28-2013 at 09:52 AM. Reason: too stupid to figure out including quotes the cool way
    "CARPE LOMBARDI"




  4. #1672

    Re: New draft/FA/offseason thread

    Quote Originally Posted by wickedsolo View Post
    There is a difference between "need" and "want".

    Sure, Kelly can develop an offense around Nick Foles, but he'd probably rather develop an offense around a mobile QB.
    We don't even know if that's really what he wants.

    I just think he wants a QB who makes good decisions and is accurate.

    I think all teams would "want" a QB who is as good a runner as they are passers. Those guys just are few and far between. I don't think Kelly is going to go out of his way to get one of those guys when they have other real issues on the team and Foles may in fact be a guy he can turn into something.
    Although Walsh's system of offense can compensate for lack of talent; however, defense is a different story. According to Walsh, talent on defense was essential and could not be compensated for. What did Walsh do in 1981? He acquired physical and talented players on defense.




  5. #1673
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    Re: New draft/FA/offseason thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Raveninwoodlawn View Post
    Why do people keep assuming Kelly NEEDS a running QB?

    Everything I've heard about him says that he is more than capable of adapting his system to any type of QB (and other personnel).

    He is going to keep Foles and Foles will likely be given every opportunity to be his starter.
    The confusing aspect of this is that Chip hired an WCO type OC (Shurmur). No one knows what he wants or will do.




  6. #1674

    Re: New draft/FA/offseason thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Raveninwoodlawn View Post
    Why do people keep assuming Kelly NEEDS a running QB?

    Everything I've heard about him says that he is more than capable of adapting his system to any type of QB (and other personnel).

    He is going to keep Foles and Foles will likely be given every opportunity to be his starter.
    Kelly isn't stupid, so when asked about Foles he's not going to say "that guy sucks, he doesn't fit the system, we're gonna get rid of him." Of course he's going to talk him up--he wants to create a market for him and put himself into a good trade position. Why do people assume that NFL coaches and managers tell the media anything other than what they believe is in the best interest of their team?

    Kelly probably could incorporate Foles into his system but I highly doubt it would be to his preference. New regimes generally mean new quarterbacks, and even if Kelly "could" use Foles I'm sure he'd much prefer to go out and get his own guy that actually fits the system.

    Quote Originally Posted by Raveninwoodlawn View Post
    I heard Mayock...who is one of the few TV draft guys I totally respect and value his opinion...say that he is hearing that Greene could be a first round pick and in Mayock's eyes, he is a first round pick based on his tape.

    I was pretty shocked when I heard him say that.
    That's fine. Mayock is good at some things and terrible at others. Breaking down tape and actually scouting prospects, he's great at. But when he says things like "so and so will be a first rounder" or "so and so will go undrafted" I don't think we can interpret that literally because he doesn't seem to actually pay much attention to how the draft process works.

    Khaseem Greene might be within the top 32 picks on Mayock's big board, so to him that means Greene is a 1st rounder, but what he's not accounting for is that the majority of NFL teams don't view non-pass rushing LBs to be WORTH 1st round picks unless they're elite prospects.

    I wouldn't say Greene has no chance to be a 1st rounder, but the way the draft has evolved over the last 5 years or so, particularly since the rookie wage scale came into effect, it just doesn't seem likely. It's a copycat league and teams are seeing guys like Sean Lee, Daryl Washington, and Navorro Bowman become the future at the LB position and they don't need to be taken in the 1st, while guys like Aaron Curry and Rolando McClain bust out.

    Since 2000... the most picked position in the 1st round is defensive line, by a huge margin. After that, DB, then WR. This class is rich in all 3 of those positions... especially defensive line. I could EASILY see the first round passing without a single tight end, non-pass rushing LB, or interior OL being picked. (Well, maybe ONE interior OL since Chance Warmack looks to be a truly elite G prospect.)

    That's just the way the NFL is now... the young impact non-QB players in the league are guys like Julio Jones, AJ Green, JJ Watt, Aldon Smith, Von Miller, etc... teams want to sell tickets and jerseys and they do that with splash plays from splash players. Everyone wants their own guy like that and now that 1st round picks don't get outrageous contracts teams feel much more free to just go and grab guys with talent instead of "safe" picks like linebackers and whatnot.

    Quote Originally Posted by jaydee414 View Post
    bmorecareful says....


    5) Arizona Cardinals - Trade for Nick Foles (good fit for Arians' offense) ......

    After getting curb-stomped in the Kolb deal with Philly I'm not thinking AZ is going to be dialing up the "215" anytime soon.
    Good point, but the Cardinals have a totally new FO and coaching staff, so maybe they feel different? The whole point of that exercise was just to suggest ways that teams could get better at QB without spending 1st round picks on scrubs like Nassib, Wilson, and Barkley who are backup-caliber talents. I just don't think NFL people are dumb enough to think that they're better off spending a top 10 pick on Matt Barkley instead of taking a Star Lotulelei, Luke Joeckel, Damontre Moore, etc. type player, drafting Barkley in the 2nd where he makes sense, and signing Alex Smith or Matt Moore as a bridge for a year or two.




  7. #1675
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    Re: New draft/FA/offseason thread

    Considering the Jets hired Morningwheg, I could see them possibly sending Tebow and some draft picks to the Eagles for Nick Foles.

    They could also target Vick.
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  8. #1676
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    Re: New draft/FA/offseason thread

    Also, with how bad the QB's have been down at the Senior Bowl, I can see Matt Barkley's stock rising a bit.
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  9. #1677
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    Re: New draft/FA/offseason thread

    My latest Ravens mock draft: (I am assuming that a safety and a nose tackle is signed in FA)

    First round pick (32): Kevin Minter, ILB, LSU
    Kevin Minter is probably the best bet here. There really isn't any great options at this point, and we have a big need at ILB, plus Minter is a great prospect IMO. He isn't Ray Lewis, and isn't a vocal leader like him, but he was the leader of an elite college defense at LSU, and was more of a quiet leader. He is really solid in run defense, he covers a lot of ground, and is adequate to solid dropping back into coverage. Hip movement may be an issue. At 6'1 and 240 lbs, he has ideal size to play in a 3-4 scheme, and would be great playing next to Ellerbe. Minter would instantly become the fastest guy in our front 7.
    Pro comparison: Daryl Smith

    Second round pick (62): Datone Jones, DE, UCLA.
    The Senior bowl headlines will tell you that it was all Ziggy Ansah dominating, but lost in all that is that Datone Jones was just as good. Datone Jones is raising his stock, so he may even be a first round pick, but for now I will give him a second round projection, simply because nobody really knows who he is right now. He compares favourbly with Darnell Docket IMO, he is really stout as a run defender, but can bullrush effectively and would instantly upgrade our pass rush. He is versatile and can play 5 technique, a hands in dirt DE in a 4-3, a DT in nickel packages, and at a push, maybe even SAM in a 3-4. He had perfect measurable s at the senior bowl, at 6'4, 280 lbs.
    Pro comparison: Darnell Docket

    Third round pick (78), (traded up for fourth, fifth, and sixth round picks with St Louis): Chris Faulk, OT, LSU
    Chris Faulk could have been one of the top LT's in the draft this year had he not spent the year out with a serious knee injury. He could be a great value pick here as a developmental LT prospect, and long term, we still don't have a real natural LT on the roster. He was a nasty run blocker at LSU and was decent in pass coverage, he also has great size at 6'6, 325 lbs. Because of the injury, he has a 3rd round projection right now. Could start from day 1 at RT or guard at a push.
    Pro comparison: Duane Brown

    Third round pick (93), Markus Wheaton, WR, Oregon state.
    Wheaton had a really solid senior bowl week, and by all accounts the Ravens were interested in him. He would fit Caldwell's system perfectly, as he can get deep separation, being a burner, but can also take short passes and take them for big gains. I'm not really sure what round he'll go in right now, but the general conseues says that he's a 3rd round projection because of his lack of size.
    Pro comparison: Greg Jennings

    Fourth round pick (compensatory pick, for Ben Grubbs): Ryan Otten, TE, San Jose
    Who knows how the Ravens view Ed Dickson right now, but I expect them to bring in some competition for him to earn the 2nd TE position in the two TE set system that the Ravens are expected to run quite a lot next season, this is assuming they tender Dickson, which isn't a given, Dickson has really under whelmed after a promising start to his sophomore season in 2011. Otten was a player that the Ravens were reportedly interested in at the senior bowl, and would be a solid pick in the fourth round. He is big, and can be a miss match over the middle, but isn't overall fast or athletic. He is an adequate to solid blocker, and very good at catching the ball from what I've seen of him. He uses his big body to catch balls over the middle out leaping smaller DB's and LB's. He was impressive at the senior bowl, and played through an illness all week. Seems like a typical Raven pick on a tough kid waiting to happen.
    Pro Comparison: Zach Miller

    Fifth round pick (compensatory pick for Cory Redding): Brian Schwenke, OC/OG, California
    This would be a nice depth pick, and would bring some legit competition for Gino in camp. Schwenke looks like a nice prospect that can get to the second level and seal off some nice blocks in the run game, he has decent size for a center at 6'4 and 307 lbs, and would be a nice fit for a ZBS. He also offers some decent versatility as he can play both guard and center.
    Pro comparison: Maukrice Pouncey

    Fifth round pick (compensatory pick, for Jarrett Johnson): Tyrann Mathieu, S/CB, LSU
    This is totally a wild throw it out there type pick on a very talented player with extremely flawed character concerns. IF the Ravens view him as someone who can change his life in the NFL, they will take a chance on him given his ability. He is actually similar to our very own Webb as a player, and would give us some much needed depth at both safety and corner.
    Pro Comparison: Lardarius Webb

    Seventh round pick (217): Kyle Justzczyk, FB, Harvard.
    Essentially the Vonta Leach replacement (I have Leach being cut in my mock offseason document sadly). He wont be anywhere near as good as a lead blocker in this offense, but somehow, I think Caldwell's system doesn't really require a great lead blocker, but maybe more of a hybrid player who can be a weapon in the passing game, as well as a protector in both the passing and running game. Justzczyk can do just that, he lined up in the slot as a receiver at Harvard a lot of the time, and could be an interesting prospect to look at, another option for Flacco on 3rd downs.
    Pro comparison: Henri Hynoski

    Seventh round pick (compensatory pick for Tom Zibikowski): Curtis McNeal, RB, USC
    As we all know, another big positive about Caldwell's offense, is that its upgraded the ground game, and its something that needed to happen in this play off run, as it was woeful at times under Cameron, or non existent, or extremely under used with the talented backs we have on the roster. We do however need an upgrade at the 3rd RB spot currently occupied by Anthony Allen. Allen is a decent ST player, but just isn't cutting it as an NFL back. This offense could do with a scat back to compliment Rice, and Curtis McNeal is a small speedy back that can contribute in the passing game too. There is nothing wrong with adding a Danny Woodhead type player in the 7th round.
    Pro comparison: Danny Woodhead.




  10. #1678
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    Re: New draft/FA/offseason thread

    The Top 10 Underclassment (According to ex-GM Scott Pioli):
    1. Luke Joeckel
    2. Dee Milliner
    3. Shariff Floyd
    4. Bjoern Werner
    5. Jonathan Hankins
    6. Eddie Lacy
    7. Jarvis Jones
    8. Keenan Allen
    9. Alec Ogletree
    10. Gavin Escobar
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  11. #1679

    Re: New draft/FA/offseason thread

    Quote Originally Posted by wickedsolo View Post
    Considering the Jets hired Morningwheg, I could see them possibly sending Tebow and some draft picks to the Eagles for Nick Foles.

    They could also target Vick.
    Why would Kelly trade Foles for Tebow?
    Although Walsh's system of offense can compensate for lack of talent; however, defense is a different story. According to Walsh, talent on defense was essential and could not be compensated for. What did Walsh do in 1981? He acquired physical and talented players on defense.




  12. #1680
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    Re: New draft/FA/offseason thread

    Interesting that he has Floyd over Hankins.




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