Draft / FA / Offseason Roster Moves (Merged)

[Carey]

Wrong Shanahan is a college type offensive mind. He always excells with running QB's who run the boot. IE Elway, Plummer, Cutler thats why he gave away akot to get RG3, and he employs the zone scheme.

Running boots in a WCO and running what the Redskins ran this year is two totally different things. They obviously simplified and tailored a scheme for RG3 to be most successful year one, especially seeing that he didnt even have a playbook at Baylor. As he gains more experience they'll get closer and closer to Shanahan's traditional offense.

As far as in Philly i agree with Raveninwoodlawn, Kelly will adjust his scheme. In fact the fact that he hired Shurmur as OC shows that. He'll blend his scheme with some West Coast and Pro principles but he'll still call the plays, stress tempo, speed, etc. His QB only ran the ball about 7 times per game i believe so it's not like he has to have a runner back there, im sure he might bring in a mobile backup to add a little package but with D-Jax, Mccoy, Maclin, Damaris Johnson, etc. he has plenty of speed.

[Raveninwoodlawn]

Maybe let's pump the brakes a little bit on Nick Foles. He's a 3rd round pick who put up 6 career starts, a 79.1 QBR, and a 1-5 record in his rookie year despite playing on an offense loaded with talent. I'm not at all sure that he's a can't-miss franchise QB that Chip Kelly needs to build his team around. He's proven WAY less than any of the guys you mention at this point, including Tim Tebow.

I agree with you that Chip Kelly is going to evaluate the full spectrum of options at the QB position in the offseason. That's going to include Nick Foles, but he's not SO good and SO proven that Kelly should discard huge components of his preferred offensive system. If the Jets (or some other team) look at Nick Foles as a good fit for their system and offer the Eagles a nice package I don't think Chip is going to reject it because he's head over heels in love with Foles.

Working with what you have is a good thing, but making low-risk moves to get what you like even more is a better thing.

Didn't mean to insinuate that Foles was anything close to a sure t hing, but IMHO, he has more upside as an NFL QB than Tebow...and it's not even close.

My whole thing is this, the NFL is going ga ga over RGIII and Kapernick right now and rightly so...those guys are incredible talents. But they are very very rare...and it's not like Kelly can just pick whatever fast guy that ran the option in college and make it work. Even Russel Wilson, for all his athletic talent, was a pro style QB at NCState and Wisconsin.

If there is a guy on the level of RGIII or Kap in this draft, of course I'd think Kelley would want them...but so would every other team without a franchise QB.

I think the opinion that he wants a guy who can run the option so much that he overlooks quality pocket passers is incorrect...that's all I'm saying.

[Boulderraven]

Why?

Why are you guys so down on Pitta?

I'm all for a game changer, but the Ravens don't necessarily have an issue with a receiving TE so much as they have an issue with a TE who can block...as in they currently don't have one. When I see Williams, I see a guy who can block AND brings an added value as a decent receiver.

Listen, I'm not saying that Pitta can or will ever be Jimmy Graham or Gronk, but Pitta can easily be a 60-70 reception TE. No doubt about it.

I said it when he was in college and I'll say it again, I think Pitta could be a lot like Dallas Clark and I think that's how Caldwell is going to use him.

No one I think is down on Pitta, but Dickson is not a good blocker, runner or has reliable hands. Ertz and Eiffert are by a large margin the best TE's in this draft and are the only ones that grade out as first round talents. You can use Pitta as H-back as well. Ertz can do it all, block too. Eiffert is better than average at everything. Plus, save loot on tendering the "waste" of Dickson. Picking at the end of the first round, you wont get a dominating pass rusher, LT or CB. Ertz and Eiffert open up the offense and provide "great" RZ targets. Nobody is in thier class TE wise.

[Boulderraven]

Running boots in a WCO and running what the Redskins ran this year is two totally different things. They obviously simplified and tailored a scheme for RG3 to be most successful year one, especially seeing that he didnt even have a playbook at Baylor. As he gains more experience they'll get closer and closer to Shanahan's traditional offense.

As far as in Philly i agree with Raveninwoodlawn, Kelly will adjust his scheme. In fact the fact that he hired Shurmur as OC shows that. He'll blend his scheme with some West Coast and Pro principles but he'll still call the plays, stress tempo, speed, etc. His QB only ran the ball about 7 times per game i believe so it's not like he has to have a runner back there, im sure he might bring in a mobile backup to add a little package but with D-Jax, Mccoy, Maclin, Damaris Johnson, etc. he has plenty of speed.

Kelly, you heard it hear first will not be a good fit in the NFL. If he goes up tempo all the time in the NFL, he will wear his OWN defense down in Philly. That system just wont work in the NFL, JMO. In college, his passers wont have the huge windows to convert the the 3rd down throws in the weak defensive PAC12. He may be dealing with alot of 3rd down conversion opportunities that he didnt have to deal with in college or big plays.

[bmorecareful]

Why?

Why are you guys so down on Pitta?

I'm all for a game changer, but the Ravens don't necessarily have an issue with a receiving TE so much as they have an issue with a TE who can block...as in they currently don't have one. When I see Williams, I see a guy who can block AND brings an added value as a decent receiver.

Listen, I'm not saying that Pitta can or will ever be Jimmy Graham or Gronk, but Pitta can easily be a 60-70 reception TE. No doubt about it.

I said it when he was in college and I'll say it again, I think Pitta could be a lot like Dallas Clark and I think that's how Caldwell is going to use him.

I'm not down on Pitta at all. I'm actually so high on Pitta that I think the team should try to extend him this offseason. I also see the Dallas Clark comparison and agree to a certain extent... bottom line, Pitta's going to be around a while. Drafting an athletic mismatch TE isn't incompatible with Pitta sticking around at all, though.

The thing is, the Ravens are in a state of transition right now when it comes to the offense. What do they want to be long-term? If Caldwell is going to run the system he used at Wake Forest and the system the Colts ran when he was there, it's not going to feature a fullback; it's going to be either base 2TE or 3WR. If they go 2TE a lot they already have a nice "move" TE in Pitta... he can move all around the formation, play H-Back, slot, out wide, etc. Remember what Pitta was when he was at BYU... he was primarily a slot receiver. That seems to be his comfort zone.

What the Ravens DON'T have is a guy who can play the traditional in-line TE role. Pitta is a bit small for that at 6'4 245, he doesn't block well, and he doesn't seem super comfortable getting jammed by LBs at the LOS. My personal opinion is that the Ravens drafted Dickson and Pitta, who were basically the same type of player in college ("tight ends" in name only, mostly slot receivers), and hoped that one of them would adjust to playing on the line. Neither of them did but they've kind of forced Dickson into the role to not much success. I think Ed's days in purple are numbered because of that... he's the same player Pitta is, but not as tough or sure-handed.

If the Ravens went out and got a Zach Ertz, Gavin Escobar, or Tyler Eifert, all of those guys played in-line TE in college. All of them are used to playing next to the offensive tackle although Eifert is the only one of the three who's a good blocker at this point in his development. I just think that kind of pick makes a ton of sense if you want to surround your franchise QB with deadly weapons without losing too much in the run game.

This is the formula the Patriots are using now with Hernandez and Gronkowski... we have our Hernandez but need our Gronkowski. Williams is a good blocker but he's no Gronkowski.

[Boulderraven]

I'm not down on Pitta at all. I'm actually so high on Pitta that I think the team should try to extend him this offseason. I also see the Dallas Clark comparison and agree to a certain extent... bottom line, Pitta's going to be around a while. Drafting an athletic mismatch TE isn't incompatible with Pitta sticking around at all, though.

The thing is, the Ravens are in a state of transition right now when it comes to the offense. What do they want to be long-term? If Caldwell is going to run the system he used at Wake Forest and the system the Colts ran when he was there, it's not going to feature a fullback; it's going to be either base 2TE or 3WR. If they go 2TE a lot they already have a nice "move" TE in Pitta... he can move all around the formation, play H-Back, slot, out wide, etc. Remember what Pitta was when he was at BYU... he was primarily a slot receiver. That seems to be his comfort zone.

What the Ravens DON'T have is a guy who can play the traditional in-line TE role. Pitta is a bit small for that at 6'4 245, he doesn't block well, and he doesn't seem super comfortable getting jammed by LBs at the LOS. My personal opinion is that the Ravens drafted Dickson and Pitta, who were basically the same type of player in college ("tight ends" in name only, mostly slot receivers), and hoped that one of them would adjust to playing on the line. Neither of them did but they've kind of forced Dickson into the role to not much success. I think Ed's days in purple are numbered because of that... he's the same player Pitta is, but not as tough or sure-handed.

If the Ravens went out and got a Zach Ertz, Gavin Escobar, or Tyler Eifert, all of those guys played in-line TE in college. All of them are used to playing next to the offensive tackle although Eifert is the only one of the three who's a good blocker at this point in his development. I just think that kind of pick makes a ton of sense if you want to surround your franchise QB with deadly weapons without losing too much in the run game.

This is the formula the Patriots are using now with Hernandez and Gronkowski... we have our Hernandez but need our Gronkowski. Williams is a good blocker but he's no Gronkowski.

Actually ERTZ is considered the better blocker of the two (Ertz and Eifert) Both are can't misses, IMO. Both beasts.

[BigPlayReceiver]

Why?

Why are you guys so down on Pitta?

I'm all for a game changer, but the Ravens don't necessarily have an issue with a receiving TE so much as they have an issue with a TE who can block...as in they currently don't have one. When I see Williams, I see a guy who can block AND brings an added value as a decent receiver.

Listen, I'm not saying that Pitta can or will ever be Jimmy Graham or Gronk, but Pitta can easily be a 60-70 reception TE. No doubt about it.

I said it when he was in college and I'll say it again, I think Pitta could be a lot like Dallas Clark and I think that's how Caldwell is going to use him.

Whoa... Hold on lol... I've been trumpeting Pitta since I saw his BYU tape in 2009. I was happy as hell when we got him. He's going to be my favorite Raven if Ed moves on.

I was just laying out the only condition under which I would be happy with Willams. That's why I said "if for some reason".

[Carey]

Kelly, you heard it hear first will not be a good fit in the NFL. If he goes up tempo all the time in the NFL, he will wear his OWN defense down in Philly. That system just wont work in the NFL, JMO. In college, his passers wont have the huge windows to convert the the 3rd down throws in the weak defensive PAC12. He may be dealing with alot of 3rd down conversion opportunities that he didnt have to deal with in college or big plays.

Idk if he's gonna work at the NFL level or not, but i think with guys that make that jump they have to be humble and willing to except outside input. I've heard he's willing to do that and the Shurmur hire shows it as well. By all accounts he's a very bright guy, we'll just have to see, but i think he has a shot.

[leachisabeast]

Fans constantly underestimate their own players. I actually think Pitta is better than Hernandez, sure he isn't Grontkowski, but he's on his way to becoming a very good TE, he's essentially a bigger version of Aaron Hernandez. What we need is a Tyler Eifert to work with him in a two TE set, because Pitta is a receiving TE, while Tyler can block and receive, or maybe we just need a real blocking TE who can also catch, Michael Williams could be that guy.

[JCroUSAF]

williams will pretty much be the replacement for billy bajema and or leach

[Paintballguy]

We definitely need a blocking te that can catch. Doesn't have to be amazing in the pass game just serviceable.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[wickedsolo]

Whoa... Hold on lol... I've been trumpeting Pitta since I saw his BYU tape in 2009. I was happy as hell when we got him. He's going to be my favorite Raven if Ed moves on.

I was just laying out the only condition under which I would be happy with Willams. That's why I said "if for some reason".

I'm not down on Pitta at all. I'm actually so high on Pitta that I think the team should try to extend him this offseason. I also see the Dallas Clark comparison and agree to a certain extent... bottom line, Pitta's going to be around a while. Drafting an athletic mismatch TE isn't incompatible with Pitta sticking around at all, though.

The thing is, the Ravens are in a state of transition right now when it comes to the offense. What do they want to be long-term? If Caldwell is going to run the system he used at Wake Forest and the system the Colts ran when he was there, it's not going to feature a fullback; it's going to be either base 2TE or 3WR. If they go 2TE a lot they already have a nice "move" TE in Pitta... he can move all around the formation, play H-Back, slot, out wide, etc. Remember what Pitta was when he was at BYU... he was primarily a slot receiver. That seems to be his comfort zone.

What the Ravens DON'T have is a guy who can play the traditional in-line TE role. Pitta is a bit small for that at 6'4 245, he doesn't block well, and he doesn't seem super comfortable getting jammed by LBs at the LOS. My personal opinion is that the Ravens drafted Dickson and Pitta, who were basically the same type of player in college ("tight ends" in name only, mostly slot receivers), and hoped that one of them would adjust to playing on the line. Neither of them did but they've kind of forced Dickson into the role to not much success. I think Ed's days in purple are numbered because of that... he's the same player Pitta is, but not as tough or sure-handed.

If the Ravens went out and got a Zach Ertz, Gavin Escobar, or Tyler Eifert, all of those guys played in-line TE in college. All of them are used to playing next to the offensive tackle although Eifert is the only one of the three who's a good blocker at this point in his development. I just think that kind of pick makes a ton of sense if you want to surround your franchise QB with deadly weapons without losing too much in the run game.

This is the formula the Patriots are using now with Hernandez and Gronkowski... we have our Hernandez but need our Gronkowski. Williams is a good blocker but he's no Gronkowski.

From my perspective, I just don't see the point in taking another receiving TE who has questionable blocking ability unless Eiffert drops in round 1 or possibly even round 2 (doubtful). Unless that happens, I'd rather seem them target receivers and look later in the draft to take maybe a more well-rounded player instead of a guy who is predominately a wide receiver in a 250lb body. Sure, I'd love to see what Caldwell could do with a guy like Gronk or Graham, but I really like Pitta and I think he is a good fit for this offense. I just like the idea of getting a guy like Michael Williams because he basically allows you to go into the season with two TE's. Pitta as the receiving/slot TE and Williams as the blocking TE/receiver on certain plays. Having a dual-capability TE opens up the roster for possibly another LB, pass rushing specialist, or maybe even another receiver who has promise, but is on the fringe (Deonte Thompson? Tommy Streeter?).

That's just how I'm looking at it.

[wickedsolo]

williams will pretty much be the replacement for billy bajema and or leach

I was thinking more along the lines of being able to fill Dickson's spot and Bajema's spot.

Dickson may eventually "get it", but I don't see it. I don't see the value in the guy. He's just not very good.

[bmorecareful]

From my perspective, I just don't see the point in taking another receiving TE who has questionable blocking ability unless Eiffert drops in round 1 or possibly even round 2 (doubtful). Unless that happens, I'd rather seem them target receivers and look later in the draft to take maybe a more well-rounded player instead of a guy who is predominately a wide receiver in a 250lb body. Sure, I'd love to see what Caldwell could do with a guy like Gronk or Graham, but I really like Pitta and I think he is a good fit for this offense. I just like the idea of getting a guy like Michael Williams because he basically allows you to go into the season with two TE's. Pitta as the receiving/slot TE and Williams as the blocking TE/receiver on certain plays. Having a dual-capability TE opens up the roster for possibly another LB, pass rushing specialist, or maybe even another receiver who has promise, but is on the fringe (Deonte Thompson? Tommy Streeter?).

That's just how I'm looking at it.

I get what you're saying, but the whole reason why I don't see Leach being back next year is that he's not a dynamic player. When he's in the game it's probably going to be a run right behind him, and if it's not, maybe he'll leak out to the flat for a pass. Nobody is afraid of Leach, nobody cares about him getting the ball in his hands. That's pretty much it. It's like only fielding 10.5 players instead of 11... there's no "force multiplier" there.

Why dump Leach then go out and get a Michael Williams type who essentially presents the same problem? Williams is a good blocker who can never be a good pass-catcher due to his lack of athleticism. When he's on the field the Ravens are probably going to be running behind him. He's not a threat to beat anybody otherwise.

Now, I'm not saying the Ravens should go out and just get ANOTHER Pitta, a slot guy who can't block worth a lick. They need a TE who can block at least pretty well. Zach Ertz, Gavin Escobar, Jack Doyle, etc. are all guys who are serious mismatches in the pass game and either COULD become good blockers or already are--not as good as Williams but good enough. When they're on the field defenses aren't sure how to stop them--if they go to nickel run the ball, if they stay in base force them to cover your mismatch guy with a LB and you win.

The Ravens used a lot of 2TE sets last year with Dickson and Pitta because they didn't have a good 3rd WR. Next year they very well might be in a similar spot if they let Boldin and/or Jacoby go and none of the young guys step up. All I'm saying is that for all we talk about adding a WR in the draft, a good receiving TE who blocks well is also a viable option.

[NC Raven]

Agree re Ertz and Eifert. If we got them, they'd complement Pitta very well, and if we do eliminate Leach's position (which I'd hate to see, but it's not looking like anything else will happen) then I think they'd be great adds.

Something tells me though that they'll try and go cheap at TE again and go for more of an impact player, either on D or the O Line,which are bigger priorities by far, with the first 2 picks.

They'll do their deep research and try to project a guy as being a "poor man's" Gronk/Ertz/Eifert and see how it goes. They hit big on Pitta as a 4th rounder, not so much on Dickson as a 3rd. Obviously Heap was the one big exception at the position - a great player and a first rounder.

Other than that, if Wikipedia's page about the Ravens draft history is correct, they've never taken a TE above the 5th round.

So I think even if Ertz or Eifert is there when we pick in the first, I don't think the team will value either one of them above a similarly graded player at a position of more pressing need.

[wickedsolo]

I get what you're saying, but the whole reason why I don't see Leach being back next year is that he's not a dynamic player. When he's in the game it's probably going to be a run right behind him, and if it's not, maybe he'll leak out to the flat for a pass. Nobody is afraid of Leach, nobody cares about him getting the ball in his hands. That's pretty much it. It's like only fielding 10.5 players instead of 11... there's no "force multiplier" there.

Why dump Leach then go out and get a Michael Williams type who essentially presents the same problem? Williams is a good blocker who can never be a good pass-catcher due to his lack of athleticism. When he's on the field the Ravens are probably going to be running behind him. He's not a threat to beat anybody otherwise.

Now, I'm not saying the Ravens should go out and just get ANOTHER Pitta, a slot guy who can't block worth a lick. They need a TE who can block at least pretty well. Zach Ertz, Gavin Escobar, Jack Doyle, etc. are all guys who are serious mismatches in the pass game and either COULD become good blockers or already are--not as good as Williams but good enough. When they're on the field defenses aren't sure how to stop them--if they go to nickel run the ball, if they stay in base force them to cover your mismatch guy with a LB and you win.

The Ravens used a lot of 2TE sets last year with Dickson and Pitta because they didn't have a good 3rd WR. Next year they very well might be in a similar spot if they let Boldin and/or Jacoby go and none of the young guys step up. All I'm saying is that for all we talk about adding a WR in the draft, a good receiving TE who blocks well is also a viable option.

Right, but unfortunately a good receiving AND blocking TE are hard to come by these days. It seems like it is one or the other.

We'll have to agree to disagree on the athleticism of Michael Williams. From what I've seen of him, I see a guy who can be a Marcedes Lewis type of TE. Big, solid hands, won't wow you with speed, but his size alone makes him a mismatch. I also think he will allow the Ravens to run some different formations like a stacked bunch or a jumbo bunch where both Williams and Pitta are to one side with (hopefully) Boldin. Sure, they will most likely run to that side, but they could also pass it, play action...having Williams as a blocking TE with Pitta split out wide isn't the identifying piece that having Leach lined up in an offset "I" is.

Just my opinion though.

Alabama ran a lot of single back with Williams in the game.

[wickedsolo]

Agree re Ertz and Eifert. If we got them, they'd complement Pitta very well, and if we do eliminate Leach's position (which I'd hate to see, but it's not looking like anything else will happen) then I think they'd be great adds.

Something tells me though that they'll try and go cheap at TE again and go for more of an impact player, either on D or the O Line,which are bigger priorities by far, with the first 2 picks.

They'll do their deep research and try to project a guy as being a "poor man's" Gronk/Ertz/Eifert and see how it goes. They hit big on Pitta as a 4th rounder, not so much on Dickson as a 3rd. Obviously Heap was the one big exception at the position - a great player and a first rounder.

Other than that, if Wikipedia's page about the Ravens draft history is correct, they've never taken a TE above the 5th round.

So I think even if Ertz or Eifert is there when we pick in the first, I don't think the team will value either one of them above a similarly graded player at a position of more pressing need.

I'm not so sure...at least with Eiffert. That guy is going to be a very good NFL player.

Ertz is a good receiver, but needs a little refinement as a blocker. Still though, he's got excellent size and athleticism to go along with a 6'5"/6'6" frame.

I like Eiffert a lot. If he is there at pick 32 and the Ravens don't take him, I'd be surprised. He could really give Flacco and the offense a wrinkle that no one else could.

[NC Raven]

I'm not so sure...at least with Eiffert. That guy is going to be a very good NFL player.

Ertz is a good receiver, but needs a little refinement as a blocker. Still though, he's got excellent size and athleticism to go along with a 6'5"/6'6" frame.

I like Eiffert a lot. If he is there at pick 32 and the Ravens don't take him, I'd be surprised. He could really give Flacco and the offense a wrinkle that no one else could.

Definitely think it's possible. And I agree that I'd rather take Eifert given the choice, if he and Ertz are both available.

I'm just going by the likely scenarios with cap/FA/extensions, and who's likely to still be on the team, and which positions are best suited to a starter on a cheap 4 year deal, and right now I'm seeing safety, pass rush (OLB/DE), tackle, and even DT if the right guy is there, as the more likely priorities, but obviously a lot will change after guys rise and fall at the Combine, and after free agency shakes out. I could see them just sticking with Dickson one more year to avoid any kind of dead money with him, and getting another "Bajema" (if not Bajema himself) to fill out the roster with for another year.

Not much right now as far as promising TE's for 2014 that I can see right now (all the good ones came out for this draft) so that could weigh on the Ravens decision as well, and make an early TE selection more likely.

[bmorecareful]

Well, we all know the Ravens will go BPA, that's not going to change. They certainly won't force a TE. But last year, I really don't think anybody saw them actually trading up for Bernard Pierce in the 3rd, not when we already had Ray Rice on the roster and had no intention of letting him go. This is a team that WILL go out and get a guy they think is a possible game-breaker even if they don't have an obvious need at the position. It ALWAYS... ALWAYS pays off.

I would not classify TE as a "top need." IMO those positions are FS, LT, ILB, and NT, probably in that order. The Ravens will find a way to address those needs, but they won't blow up their big board to do it. I don't really think the 1st round pick will be a TE, and again I don't think they'll force the pick in the later rounds, but would not be shocked at all to see them get a TE if a game-breaker drops in any given round.

[wickedsolo]

Well, we all know the Ravens will go BPA, that's not going to change. They certainly won't force a TE. But last year, I really don't think anybody saw them actually trading up for Bernard Pierce in the 3rd, not when we already had Ray Rice on the roster and had no intention of letting him go. This is a team that WILL go out and get a guy they think is a possible game-breaker even if they don't have an obvious need at the position. It ALWAYS... ALWAYS pays off.

I would not classify TE as a "top need." IMO those positions are FS, LT, ILB, and NT, probably in that order. The Ravens will find a way to address those needs, but they won't blow up their big board to do it. I don't really think the 1st round pick will be a TE, and again I don't think they'll force the pick in the later rounds, but would not be shocked at all to see them get a TE if a game-breaker drops in any given round.

I agree, but this draft has some really talented and explosive TE's...so it would be a good draft to take a receiving TE. However, I don't think they should force the issue.