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  1. #1813
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    Re: New draft/FA/offseason thread



    Quote Originally Posted by JAB1985 View Post
    if we lose Kruger i would expect that to be the direction they go. Theyll need him to be more of that quick twitch pass rusher than what he is currently.
    Well, that's not really something you can develop.

    You're either born with that or you aren't.

    However, what they can do is help him drop about 10lbs and get down into the mid 250's/low 260's, which will help him with his endurance. The second thing that they can do is help him develop more robust pass rushing moves.

    The rest is just him watching tape, getting with Suggs, and learning tendencies and how to set an offensive lineman up.
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  2. #1814
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    Re: New draft/FA/offseason thread

    Quote Originally Posted by leachisabeast View Post
    If we can get Joes cap number this year to 7.5-8.5 before the deadline, we can make some decent moves this offseason, its just a big IF really.
    I just don't see that happening. At best I think we're looking at the same situation as we had with Rice last year. Joe gets tagged and they play chicken until they get a deal done right before the permanent tag deadline. That would screw up free agency but create room 2 months after free agency started when all the in demand guys are signed.
    He Who Dares.....Wins




  3. #1815
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    Re: New draft/FA/offseason thread

    Quote Originally Posted by JAB1985 View Post
    hes been playing on the line just as much if not more. I was just watching them break down film on Upshaw this morning, not setting the edge and being out of position, which "he cannot do against Kaepernick". I dont want to hear the exaggeration that hes as good as JJ already. Hes not. Hes plent good already and enough to be there now and will only improve but that doesnt mean hes as good already, as arguably the best in the league was after 9 years.
    Agree -- Upshaw has clearly been sucked way out of position many times this season. He still needs a lot of work on setting the edge. I believe he can get there, but a rookie is a rookie. No comparison to what JJ did during the last however many seasons before. Not even close. JJ was a rock, a metronome you could set your watch to. Nobody got outside of him. Nobody broke big runs. Upshaw surely has more athletic upside, but the knowledge and experience are something he lacks at this point, as you would expect.

    For this game specifically, unless somebody gets hurt, I don't expect to see much of him. While Kruger also makes errors in edge setting, at least he's fast enough to help steer Kap in the general direction if he takes off. Upshaw would be totally overmatched if Kap got loose on his side.
    No one likes us, and we don't care.




  4. #1816

    Re: New draft/FA/offseason thread

    Quote Originally Posted by wickedsolo View Post
    Well, that's not really something you can develop.

    You're either born with that or you aren't.

    However, what they can do is help him drop about 10lbs and get down into the mid 250's/low 260's, which will help him with his endurance. The second thing that they can do is help him develop more robust pass rushing moves.

    The rest is just him watching tape, getting with Suggs, and learning tendencies and how to set an offensive lineman up.
    i wouldnt say that its not something you cant work on, granted he clearly doesnt have the gift naturally so his ceiling for such is still going to be much lower. He drops some weight, hell be more explosive than he is, which is all im really trying to express. Hopefully that makes him a little more fluid in general. He does need to work on his repertoire. Getting with Suggs is the first step, which hopefully hes already done. If he can just learn how to jump the snap count as well as Suggs that would be a great advantage to him to overcome that lack of quick twitch.

    IIRC he struggled with weight this past offseason and couldnt drop weight easily. Its not guarantee that the teams gets him to where they want him. He is a large man naturally, ill give him that.
    Last edited by JAB1985; 01-31-2013 at 09:04 AM.
    -JAB




  5. #1817

    Re: New draft/FA/offseason thread

    Quote Originally Posted by NC Raven View Post
    Agree -- Upshaw has clearly been sucked way out of position many times this season. He still needs a lot of work on setting the edge. I believe he can get there, but a rookie is a rookie. No comparison to what JJ did during the last however many seasons before. Not even close. JJ was a rock, a metronome you could set your watch to. Nobody got outside of him. Nobody broke big runs. Upshaw surely has more athletic upside, but the knowledge and experience are something he lacks at this point, as you would expect.

    For this game specifically, unless somebody gets hurt, I don't expect to see much of him. While Kruger also makes errors in edge setting, at least he's fast enough to help steer Kap in the general direction if he takes off. Upshaw would be totally overmatched if Kap got loose on his side.
    I think well see him, but most likely in 4-3 sets as a DE. Frankly Kruger has been playing at a much much higher level lately so I dont see them removing him for Upshaw unless, as you suggest, for injury or possibly rest if our D is out there more than expected (hopefully not).
    -JAB




  6. #1818

    Re: New draft/FA/offseason thread

    Dont be surprised to see Paul Krugers brother drafted by us, he is climbing and a good DE prospect, He is bigger than Paul and alot like McPhee. Plus, that keeps you in good graces with his brother Paul who according to Utah athletic department are very close.

    Harewood will be kept, depth and insurance.
    David Reed might be too expensive with LeQuan able to do the same.
    Dickson depends on whom they draft, I expect them to draft a TE, with two hitting UFA in 2014.

    Ravens will be fine next year, plenty of talent. Every team loses a few players every year to replace them, natural turnover. It's been happening around here for 5 years if anyone has noticed.

    The ONLY player I see leaving without a doubt is Cary Williams, CB's with experience are at a price point premium, plus Ravens deep at the position.
    Leach looks like a cut with his limited use and cap figure.

    Not so fast on Birk, he played pretty well this year, has a low cap number next season and says he feels great,, best in years and knee isnt bothering him anymore and doesnt want to retire. He might be back. He has been outspoken about it.

    Flacco will work out a deal, pretty sure over 6 years to average out about 17-18 million per season. The guarenteed part will be the sticking point.

    Boldin might be extended a year or released, plenty of WR's on the FA market as well. Boldin really is a slot guy, got lucky Talib was hurt or he would of been shut down. 7 Mlillion is alot for a slot WR. They could also extend Jones if they wanted a few years, he is young. Ravens have options at their disposal.




  7. #1819

    Re: New draft/FA/offseason thread

    Quote Originally Posted by leachisabeast View Post
    Whatever happens here are our team needs in order.

    (Assuming, Leach, Jacoby, Birk, Williams, retire/cut. Also assuming Reed, Kruger, and Kemoeatu are the key FAs that aren't retained. Finally it is assuming that Flacco gets franchise tagged, while McKinnie and Ellerbe are re-signed. Boldin and Oher get contract extensions, while Suggs and Ngata have contract restructures.)

    Top team needs:
    1. Safety (Immediate starter needed)
    2. NT (Upgrade over Cody needed)
    3. TE (An immediate starter next to Pitta needed)
    4. ILB (An upgrade over Jameel McClain/McClellan/Bynes needed next to Ellerbe)
    5. OT (A future replacement at LT needed for McKinnie)
    6. DE (Someone to push Art Jones, and McPhee for a starting place next season)
    7. WR (Someone to push Tandon Doss for the #3 WR posistion next season)
    8. KR/PR (Someone to push Deonte Thompson, Asa Jackson, and Tandon Doss for that job next season.)
    9. OG/OC (Someone to push Gino for the starting posistion at C next season, depth either way is needed.)
    10. FB (Someone to replace the cut Leach, but will only be used in sub packages in Caldwells new installed offense.)
    11. CB (Depth needed, insurance may be required if Webb isn't the same.)
    12. OLB (Depth behind Upshaw and Suggs needed.)
    13. QB (Someone to push Tyrod Taylor for the back up QB job next season.)
    14. HB (An upgrade or competition is required for the #3 RB job next season.)
    Overall a good, well-thought-out post.

    I would move your #5 (left tackle) up to #2. IMO, Cody's ineptitude isn't as big of a deal now that Jones seems to be getting snaps all over the D-line. I agree that getting a capable 3rd TE is important, but wouldn't rank it as our #3 priority. Also, if we went into 2013 with Ellerbe and McClellan as our two starters with McClain, 2nd-4th round rookie, and Bynes as our backups, I wouldn't be upset. I think McClellan has earned more snaps than he actually gets. Every time we've counted on him to start, he's done decently. Bynes impressed me as well.




  8. #1820

    Re: New draft/FA/offseason thread

    Quote Originally Posted by LukeDaniel View Post
    Overall a good, well-thought-out post.

    I would move your #5 (left tackle) up to #2. IMO, Cody's ineptitude isn't as big of a deal now that Jones seems to be getting snaps all over the D-line. I agree that getting a capable 3rd TE is important, but wouldn't rank it as our #3 priority. Also, if we went into 2013 with Ellerbe and McClellan as our two starters with McClain, 2nd-4th round rookie, and Bynes as our backups, I wouldn't be upset. I think McClellan has earned more snaps than he actually gets. Every time we've counted on him to start, he's done decently. Bynes impressed me as well.

    IMO LT i #1, even if we retain Big Mac short term.

    And TE is fairly important, especially IMO since Dickson should be non-tnedered/only tendered if they intend to trade him for a low round pick. He's not worth his tender salary to be used as a blocker first and foremost. His role can easily be fulfilled by a mid round pick or a journeyman vet at the minimum salary.




  9. #1821

    Re: New draft/FA/offseason thread

    Where do you guys see Arthur Brown going? I'm really high on him as a replacement for Lewis. Could he drop to the second?




  10. #1822

    Re: New draft/FA/offseason thread

    Quote Originally Posted by jonboy79 View Post
    IMO LT i #1, even if we retain Big Mac short term.

    And TE is fairly important, especially IMO since Dickson should be non-tnedered/only tendered if they intend to trade him for a low round pick. He's not worth his tender salary to be used as a blocker first and foremost. His role can easily be fulfilled by a mid round pick or a journeyman vet at the minimum salary.
    I think you don't understand what Dickson's salary would be, jonboy. He is all but surely going to be given a round-of-draft tender which comes with a $1.2-$1.3mil price tag. A veteran minimum salary is roughly $900k. That's what Bajema made this past year. At the veteran minimum, the Ravens are going to get a barely-hanging-on-to-my-NFL-career guy like Bajema and nothing more. For $300-$400k more, I'd rather keep Dickson, who is one year removed from a 50 catch season and still has quite a bit of upside.

    I'm not a Dickson fan, but he's not as bad as some here like to state. If we had to go without Pitta for an extended period of time in 2013, would you really want two rookies or a rookie and Bajema as your two TEs? I think the sensible plan is to pay Dickson for one more year, resign Pitta long term, and then draft a 3rd TE this year who will be our #2 guy in 2014.




  11. #1823
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    Re: New draft/FA/offseason thread

    Quote Originally Posted by LukeDaniel View Post
    I think you don't understand what Dickson's salary would be, jonboy. He is all but surely going to be given a round-of-draft tender which comes with a $1.2-$1.3mil price tag. A veteran minimum salary is roughly $900k. That's what Bajema made this past year. At the veteran minimum, the Ravens are going to get a barely-hanging-on-to-my-NFL-career guy like Bajema and nothing more. For $300-$400k more, I'd rather keep Dickson, who is one year removed from a 50 catch season and still has quite a bit of upside.

    I'm not a Dickson fan, but he's not as bad as some here like to state. If we had to go without Pitta for an extended period of time in 2013, would you really want two rookies or a rookie and Bajema as your two TEs? I think the sensible plan is to pay Dickson for one more year, resign Pitta long term, and then draft a 3rd TE this year who will be our #2 guy in 2014.
    Yeah Dickson will be back for sure. He's still young and cheap with a lot of upside like you said.




  12. #1824

    Re: New draft/FA/offseason thread

    Quote Originally Posted by LukeDaniel View Post
    I think you don't understand what Dickson's salary would be, jonboy. He is all but surely going to be given a round-of-draft tender which comes with a $1.2-$1.3mil price tag. A veteran minimum salary is roughly $900k. That's what Bajema made this past year. At the veteran minimum, the Ravens are going to get a barely-hanging-on-to-my-NFL-career guy like Bajema and nothing more. For $300-$400k more, I'd rather keep Dickson, who is one year removed from a 50 catch season and still has quite a bit of upside.

    I'm not a Dickson fan, but he's not as bad as some here like to state. If we had to go without Pitta for an extended period of time in 2013, would you really want two rookies or a rookie and Bajema as your two TEs? I think the sensible plan is to pay Dickson for one more year, resign Pitta long term, and then draft a 3rd TE this year who will be our #2 guy in 2014.

    I'd rather have WIlliams from Alabama for a half million, give or take.

    Dickson, despite being asked to do so,is a terrible blocker with some of the msot questionable hands in the league. I don't see value at over a Million dollars. I'd rather have Brandon Manumaleuna or similar for $900k. If the Pat's don't retain Micahel Hoomanawanui, I'd MUCH rather have him for $600k or so


    And per the post above, I don't see much upside either. The guy jsut isn't very good. He's not close to a complete package. He's a guy that's too big and slow to be a WR, with a very limited skillset. His routes aren't great, his hands are terrible and he can't block much at all. He's fast for a TE, but that's about it.




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