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  1. #1621
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    Re: New draft/FA/offseason thread



    Is there a chance the Ravens will look to pick up a versatile TE to use as an H-Back if they don't re-sign Leach?

    On the one hand, we see teams doing this more to create mismatches (especially New England, but it's been done here and there by others; and we've even used Leach as a receiver to exploit defensive tendencies not to adequately account for the FB in the passing game) and having an H-Back type who can lead-block out of the backfield and line up as a TE -- and even split out wide to give a different look --- could be very useful.

    On the other, it's not something we've seen from the Ravens much before, IIRC.

    Could that change with Caldwell? If so, I'd think Lutzenkirchen would be a nice choice and would cost a much less valuable pick, who has always stood out to me when watching Auburn, even when they've struggled the last year-plus.

    Or would we just find some random FB in FA to replace Leach at a lower cost?
    No one likes us, and we don't care.




  2. #1622

    Re: New draft/FA/offseason thread

    Quote Originally Posted by wickedsolo View Post
    So, if T'eo falls to us in Round 1...would you be satisfied if they took him?

    Sent from my DROID X2 using Forum Runner
    Yes.

    Quote Originally Posted by NC Raven View Post
    Is there a chance the Ravens will look to pick up a versatile TE to use as an H-Back if they don't re-sign Leach?

    On the one hand, we see teams doing this more to create mismatches (especially New England, but it's been done here and there by others; and we've even used Leach as a receiver to exploit defensive tendencies not to adequately account for the FB in the passing game) and having an H-Back type who can lead-block out of the backfield and line up as a TE -- and even split out wide to give a different look --- could be very useful.

    On the other, it's not something we've seen from the Ravens much before, IIRC.

    Could that change with Caldwell? If so, I'd think Lutzenkirchen would be a nice choice and would cost a much less valuable pick, who has always stood out to me when watching Auburn, even when they've struggled the last year-plus.

    Or would we just find some random FB in FA to replace Leach at a lower cost?
    I think Hback is the way to go.

    I also would like to find a taller guy like Tuilolo or Fauria who we could split out wide and have enormous size mismatches when we get down inside the 5.
    Although Walsh's system of offense can compensate for lack of talent; however, defense is a different story. According to Walsh, talent on defense was essential and could not be compensated for. What did Walsh do in 1981? He acquired physical and talented players on defense.




  3. #1623

    Re: New draft/FA/offseason thread

    Quote Originally Posted by NC Raven View Post
    Is there a chance the Ravens will look to pick up a versatile TE to use as an H-Back if they don't re-sign Leach?

    On the one hand, we see teams doing this more to create mismatches (especially New England, but it's been done here and there by others; and we've even used Leach as a receiver to exploit defensive tendencies not to adequately account for the FB in the passing game) and having an H-Back type who can lead-block out of the backfield and line up as a TE -- and even split out wide to give a different look --- could be very useful.

    On the other, it's not something we've seen from the Ravens much before, IIRC.

    Could that change with Caldwell? If so, I'd think Lutzenkirchen would be a nice choice and would cost a much less valuable pick, who has always stood out to me when watching Auburn, even when they've struggled the last year-plus.

    Or would we just find some random FB in FA to replace Leach at a lower cost?
    They have a few options, I would say. If they let Leach go they'll probably still get a FB this offseason... I doubt they're going to just eliminate the position from the offense entirely. A guy like Trey Millard out of Oklahoma in the 5th or 6th would be a good pick.

    But if they want to go to more 2TE looks, IMO the need is really moreso for an in-line TE rather than an H-Back. I think Pitta can be effective in a Chris Cooley type of H-Back role. That wouldn't require him to lead block between the tackles like a traditional FB, which is not a role Pitta can really do. In that sort of offense you'd be asking him to crack back across the formation, guard the weak side on counter runs, etc... things I think he CAN do. That would be a little less physical and more "finesse" run game, but the ZBS is more of a finesse system anyway.

    I like Pitta as the H-Back role that moves all around, including into the slot and splitting out wide. He has the versatility and athleticism to do that, and I think he's much more comfortable in that role than playing in-line at TE where he doesn't really have the size or physicality to go up against defensive linemen. In that scenario, we would actually need your more traditional in-line TE, hopefully somebody who's around 6'5 260 or so and physical enough to hold his own against DEs. There are plenty of mid-round options that present a "mini Gronkowski" skillset... Jack Doyle, Vance McDonald, Nick Kasa, Zach Sudfeld... all of those guys fit the mold physically even if not all of them are great blockers right now.

    The thing people don't get with both Dickson and Pitta is... both of them lined up split out wide or in the slot 90% of the time in college. I think the Ravens were hoping that one of them could become an option as an in-line TE but I don't think either one of them will ever do that at a high level. It's just such a huge transition to basically take a college WR and ask him to play on the line next to a tackle. I think we'd do better to get a guy who either did play inline a lot in college or at least seems to have a really good shot to do that in the pros.




  4. #1624

    Re: New draft/FA/offseason thread

    Quote Originally Posted by NC Raven View Post
    Is there a chance the Ravens will look to pick up a versatile TE to use as an H-Back if they don't re-sign Leach?

    On the one hand, we see teams doing this more to create mismatches (especially New England, but it's been done here and there by others; and we've even used Leach as a receiver to exploit defensive tendencies not to adequately account for the FB in the passing game) and having an H-Back type who can lead-block out of the backfield and line up as a TE -- and even split out wide to give a different look --- could be very useful.

    On the other, it's not something we've seen from the Ravens much before, IIRC.

    Could that change with Caldwell? If so, I'd think Lutzenkirchen would be a nice choice and would cost a much less valuable pick, who has always stood out to me when watching Auburn, even when they've struggled the last year-plus.

    Or would we just find some random FB in FA to replace Leach at a lower cost?
    To me Pitta is like an H back or can be used that way, he is very similar to Wycheck from Tennesee. I like Ertz and Eiffert both, very GOOD hands, huge and physical. Ertz is a better blocker. in 2014 both out TE's will be UFA's. Either TE (Ertz & Effiert) is GREAT mismatch in the new NFL today, much like Gronk is. Look around, most of the good teams use TE's.......DEN,NE, INDY, ATL, SF, GB etc.

    Picking at the end of the draft you arent going to find and elite LT, pass rusher, CB, or DT. The Ravens dont need a RB or QB and the WR class is weak this season. You can make a case for Austin, but he is a slot guy...he will be a hit or miss type with durability questions. You could snag a C or S late in the first or 2nd. But, drafting either TE is grabbing alot of value at your draft slot with impending UFA's at that position. I think Atlanta drafts one of them with TG retiring, but Ravens could trade up a few spots. Then if you draft one of them, dont tender Dickson and let go of Leach you save 5.4 Million and spend 1.5 million to sign your rookie TE, then you can resign Leach at a lower price if you want him back. To me if makes the most sense. Dickson is nill in the running game, and his hands are unreliable. I've noticed the offense has been much better since they have had both TE's back, only cause of Dicksons presence to be accounted for, but add a STUD TE like a Gronk type the offense will be more versatile and more explosive. I like both those TE's for 3rd downs and RZ opps. I'm not against drafting a Safety in the first or C. Jones from Bama is a safe pick as well. But either TE looks more like BPA and fills a need and saves $ at the same time and a C can be had in later rounds, if they arent sold on Gradkowski. ILB isnt a value pick anymore in the NFL and more of a crapshoot. Ertz or Effiert have pro bowl potential obviously and are premier talents. I am concerned their draft stock may rise prior to the draft and after the combine.




  5. #1625

    Re: New draft/FA/offseason thread

    Quote Originally Posted by leachisabeast View Post
    Terrence Knighton wont be expensive, I think he'll be affordable.
    I really like Knighton. I think he'd be a gr3eat addition that fits in very well here.




  6. #1626
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    Re: New draft/FA/offseason thread

    Definitely agree with pretty much everything above on the TE's. They may want/get Leach back on the cheap -- they really like his leadership, and he does have enough versatility to help out in the run and pass games.

    Also definitely agree with Pitta as the H-back -- he does seem to have the ability for that position, even though he was mainly a receiving TE at BYU. The few times I can remember him taking on "backfield" roles, he's done fine with them.

    Dickson was really just a big WR at Oregon. I thought he would be faster, more explosive, and harder to bring down in the pros. He seems to have lost some agility -- he takes forever turning and getting upfield after catching the ball, doesn't flash any speed, and goes down at the first hint of contact. A shame because at the time I really, really liked the pick and thought it was a very good value -- the dude was a flat out bastard for defenses to deal with in college. In the NFL, not so much.... He seems like he's gotten timid compared to his college days, and I think he's pretty much done when his deal runs out. Can't imagine anyone needing him for anything; his only remote value to the Ravens is he knows the system and the other personnel, but he may be the most replaceable guy on the 53.

    So anyway, considering all of that, I suppose it's nice that we're not locked in to a particular type of TE, and to the extent we are, it's probably a blocking TE which is not as hard to find as a good all arounder.

    For the reasons Boulder said, I agree an Ertz or Eifert, factoring in the cap and the values available at other positions, could well represent the best overall value (all things considered) when our turn to pick in Round 1 comes up.
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  7. #1627

    Re: New draft/FA/offseason thread

    I can see why we might be locked onto Markus Wheaton. He gets out of his out and comeback routes with almost no wasted movement. While not jammed a lot on the Cal, ASU and BYU tape, he has done pretty well in that department in the 1on1's in Mobile. OSU's DBs play press coverage, so Wheaton has seen it for years at Corvallis and it appears to have helped him.

    Like Boldin and Torrey, he's always looking to make a block on the perimeter and downfield and actually does it very well...just about as well as Patton from this class. Now, he's no Patton with foot quickness and he's no Studman with his routes, but he's a very balanced WR...and even though he's a track guy, he doesn't look like an athlete playing WR like Harper, Allen and Dobson IMO. I can see him being wide or in the slot. From a spring practice interview, he mentioned that he put on 10-11 lbs coming into 2012 (mostly muscle I would assume). He will need to bump it up another 7-8 lbs up top over time for the NFL.

    In the link below, go to the last play at 5:32 and watch his effort and consider the following: it's a run call away from his side, late in the 3rd quarter, some back-ups are already in and his team is up 35 points. Coaches absolutely LOVE that kinda stuff.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h5-DwyPWQj8

    His hands are better than average and he'd have the best vision and cutback ability among our WR corps come day 1.
    Last edited by BigPlayReceiver; 01-26-2013 at 01:08 PM.




  8. #1628
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    Vonta Leach still has another year on his contract. I'm not sure where all this "non resigning him" talk is coming from
    Follow me on twitter at @dandrews66




  9. #1629

    Re: New draft/FA/offseason thread

    Quote Originally Posted by dandrews View Post
    Vonta Leach still has another year on his contract. I'm not sure where all this "non resigning him" talk is coming from
    Cap hit. He isnt being used as much lately. Can be resigned at cheaper price if let go.




  10. #1630

    Re: New draft/FA/offseason thread

    Quote Originally Posted by BigPlayReceiver View Post
    I can see why we might be locked onto Markus Wheaton. He gets out of his out and comeback routes with almost no wasted movement. While not jammed a lot on the Cal, ASU and BYU tape, he has done pretty well in that department in the 1on1's in Mobile. OSU's DBs play press coverage, so Wheaton has seen it for years at Corvallis and it appears to have helped him.

    Like Boldin and Torrey, he's always looking to make a block on the perimeter and downfield and actually does it very well...just about as well as Patton from this class. Now, he's no Patton with foot quickness and he's no Studman with his routes, but he's a very balanced WR...and even though he's a track guy, he doesn't look like an athlete playing WR like Harper, Allen and Dobson IMO. I can see him being wide or in the slot. From a spring practice interview, he mentioned that he put on 10-11 lbs coming into 2012 (mostly muscle I would assume). He will need to bump it up another 7-8 lbs up top over time for the NFL.

    In the link below, go to the last play at 5:32 and watch his effort and consider the following: it's a run call away from his side, late in the 3rd quarter, some back-ups are alredy in and his team is up 35 points. Coaches absolutely LOVE that kinda stuff.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h5-DwyPWQj8

    His hands are better than average and he'd have the best vision and cutback ability among our WR corps come day 1.
    Only issue with WR's outside of likes of Calvin Johnson, Green and Andre Johnson is that DeCosta and Ozzie said it is the hardest position to evaluate and more of a crapshoot especially later in round 1. Bigger hit or miss potential.




  11. #1631

    Re: New draft/FA/offseason thread

    Quote Originally Posted by jaydee414 View Post
    If by "OK blocker", you mean he sometimes finds himself between the guy with the ball and somebody with a different color shirt on, then yeah, he's an OK blocker.
    He's a better overall blocker than Pitta. Just can't catch a cold.




  12. #1632
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    Re: New draft/FA/offseason thread

    My friend who goes to the Senior Bowl religiously was sitting behind a couple of scouts today from the Seahawks and Vikings and he heard them talking about Ziggy Ansah. He told me that they were really impressed by the guy's performance during the game and that there was no way he would drop out of the top 15.
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