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  1. #1189
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    Re: New draft/FA/offseason thread



    Quote Originally Posted by arnie_uk View Post
    theres no way we go centre in the second round. Too many bigger needs. A guard maybe if they want KO at right tackle. But I see the inside three as set. KO gino and yanda. Oher will be on one side. So we need another starter.

    We will sign a experienced vet to push gino if birk retires.
    Federick can easily play guard in the NFL, after all that was his natural position before his junior year. If he's on the board at the end of the 2nd round, he may be the BPA, and his verssatility will attract Ozzie to take a look at him. I think drafting a center/guard is in the 2nd round is not as far fetched as you seem to think. Oher is a FA in 2014, that may mean KO will have to move to RT, which leaves a void at guard, also none of us are sure if Gino is ready to start in the NFL week in week out. He looked "decent" against Cincy, but that's just one game, and I seen that he got pushed around a few times in that game anyway.

    Travs Federick just fits the mold of an AFC North center (6'4 330 lbs) if he's on the board, he would likely fortify our Oline in the middle with Yanda and KO, good luck trying to stop runs up the middle against that sheer size and power.

    I think it's more likely we go after a WR in the 2nd round if we do go offense, but I wouldn't mind Federick at ALL.




  2. #1190

    Re: New draft/FA/offseason thread

    Quote Originally Posted by leachisabeast View Post
    Federick can easily play guard in the NFL, after all that was his natural position before his junior year. If he's on the board at the end of the 2nd round, he may be the BPA, and his verssatility will attract Ozzie to take a look at him. I think drafting a center/guard is in the 2nd round is not as far fetched as you seem to think. Oher is a FA in 2014, that may mean KO will have to move to RT, which leaves a void at guard, also none of us are sure if Gino is ready to start in the NFL week in week out. He looked "decent" against Cincy, but that's just one game, and I seen that he got pushed around a few times in that game anyway.

    Travs Federick just fits the mold of an AFC North center (6'4 330 lbs) if he's on the board, he would likely fortify our Oline in the middle with Yanda and KO, good luck trying to stop runs up the middle against that sheer size and power.

    I think it's more likely we go after a WR in the 2nd round if we do go offense, but I wouldn't mind Federick at ALL.
    There aren't any AFC north centers near that size and the 2 best are between 305 and 310. Probably the best C in the league right now is Chris Myers and he is 290-295.

    There is no need to just draft a bulky guy...Gino has passed every test I've seen the team throw at him and I am very, very confident that he will be fine.

    He's not a big name...and he looked a little small in training camp. Big deal. The team drafted him with intentions of him starting somewhere soon. By all accounts, he is an extremely hard worker, a scrapper, fighter, and someone who will do whatever the team wants.

    He looked to have put on some pounds, got a full season to learn under one of the best centers of the previous decade and will have another full offseason to work with the coaches. He looked like he belonged and like a quality NFL offensive lineman when he got in there.

    I have a TON of confidence in Gino being more than capable at C here. No need at all to try and get another center when we have so many other real needs on this team. If we can keep KO at guard, our interior is set...we need a LT if we are going to get an offensive lineman.
    Although Walsh's system of offense can compensate for lack of talent; however, defense is a different story. According to Walsh, talent on defense was essential and could not be compensated for. What did Walsh do in 1981? He acquired physical and talented players on defense.




  3. #1191

    Re: New draft/FA/offseason thread

    Quote Originally Posted by leachisabeast View Post
    Federick can easily play guard in the NFL, after all that was his natural position before his junior year. If he's on the board at the end of the 2nd round, he may be the BPA, and his verssatility will attract Ozzie to take a look at him. I think drafting a center/guard is in the 2nd round is not as far fetched as you seem to think. Oher is a FA in 2014, that may mean KO will have to move to RT, which leaves a void at guard, also none of us are sure if Gino is ready to start in the NFL week in week out. He looked "decent" against Cincy, but that's just one game, and I seen that he got pushed around a few times in that game anyway.

    Travs Federick just fits the mold of an AFC North center (6'4 330 lbs) if he's on the board, he would likely fortify our Oline in the middle with Yanda and KO, good luck trying to stop runs up the middle against that sheer size and power.

    I think it's more likely we go after a WR in the 2nd round if we do go offense, but I wouldn't mind Federick at ALL.
    This depends on what the long term plan is for Osmele. If they are going to leave him at guard, which is probably his best position, you don't draft an interior line guy in the first three rounds of this draft. Team spent a high draft pick on Gradkowski and he did nothing in the Cincy game to make you think he can't play. Too many holes to be over drafting interior oline. If they see Osmele as RT maybe it makes sense.

    To your earlier post, I agree that if they retain Kruger that they don't draft a OLB early this year. I just don't have high hopes for retaining him. Here is hoping they sign Flacco and franchise Kruger as an OLB.




  4. #1192
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    Re: New draft/FA/offseason thread

    Quote Originally Posted by leachisabeast View Post
    Federick can easily play guard in the NFL, after all that was his natural position before his junior year. If he's on the board at the end of the 2nd round, he may be the BPA, and his verssatility will attract Ozzie to take a look at him. I think drafting a center/guard is in the 2nd round is not as far fetched as you seem to think. Oher is a FA in 2014, that may mean KO will have to move to RT, which leaves a void at guard, also none of us are sure if Gino is ready to start in the NFL week in week out. He looked "decent" against Cincy, but that's just one game, and I seen that he got pushed around a few times in that game anyway.

    Travs Federick just fits the mold of an AFC North center (6'4 330 lbs) if he's on the board, he would likely fortify our Oline in the middle with Yanda and KO, good luck trying to stop runs up the middle against that sheer size and power.

    I think it's more likely we go after a WR in the 2nd round if we do go offense, but I wouldn't mind Federick at ALL.
    Where in the world are you coming up with that statement?

    Maurkice Pouncey is maybe 310lbs...maybe. Probably more along the lines of 300. Birk is about 310lbs. Alex Mack is about 305lbs, give or take, and Kyle Cook is about the same.

    In fact, I can't think of any starting center currently in the NFL who is 330+lbs.
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  5. #1193
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    Re: New draft/FA/offseason thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Raveninwoodlawn View Post
    There aren't any AFC north centers near that size and the 2 best are between 305 and 310. Probably the best C in the league right now is Chris Myers and he is 290-295.

    There is no need to just draft a bulky guy...Gino has passed every test I've seen the team throw at him and I am very, very confident that he will be fine.

    He's not a big name...and he looked a little small in training camp. Big deal. The team drafted him with intentions of him starting somewhere soon. By all accounts, he is an extremely hard worker, a scrapper, fighter, and someone who will do whatever the team wants.

    He looked to have put on some pounds, got a full season to learn under one of the best centers of the previous decade and will have another full offseason to work with the coaches. He looked like he belonged and like a quality NFL offensive lineman when he got in there.

    I have a TON of confidence in Gino being more than capable at C here. No need at all to try and get another center when we have so many other real needs on this team. If we can keep KO at guard, our interior is set...we need a LT if we are going to get an offensive lineman.
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  6. #1194

    Re: New draft/FA/offseason thread

    Quote Originally Posted by wickedsolo View Post
    Where in the world are you coming up with that statement?

    Maurkice Pouncey is maybe 310lbs...maybe. Probably more along the lines of 300. Birk is about 310lbs. Alex Mack is about 305lbs, give or take, and Kyle Cook is about the same.

    In fact, I can't think of any starting center currently in the NFL who is 330+lbs.
    This. Travis Frederick is a guard in the NFL. He can't play center, particularly not for a zone-blocking team. His feet are just so, so, SO slow. I think he's the slowest-footed lineman I've seen come out of that Wisconsin program over the last few years... they're usually pretty good athletes coming from there but Frederick is very limited athletically.

    I think people just are not understanding the role of the center in our system. They see interior pressure coming and just assume it's because Birk lost his one-on-one battle with a DT, and they pine for a massive lumbering center who isn't going to give up ground. But the reality is that a zone-blocking center needs to be quick, agile, and technically proficient. In our system the center should NEVER be taking on a lineman one-on-one... they should hit the double-team with the guard, then peel off and get to the 2nd level to hit a LB.

    Those are things Travis Frederick can't do... he's not going to throw a quick seal block, slide off, and move up to the 2nd level. If your system wanted him to solo-block a DT he could do that and do it well. But if we drafted him to play center we would see the exact opposite of what a lot of people expect: interior runs getting blown up because quick LBs shoot the gaps and run right by Frederick.

    Gradkowski is a fine prospect to play center for us. That doesn't mean we don't need to add interior OL depth, we do, but I wouldn't want the Ravens to do it earlier than the 4th or 5th rounds unless a guy like Barrett Jones with his incredible versatility happens to fall way down into the 2nd or so.




  7. #1195
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    Re: New draft/FA/offseason thread

    Quote Originally Posted by bmorecareful View Post
    This. Travis Frederick is a guard in the NFL. He can't play center, particularly not for a zone-blocking team. His feet are just so, so, SO slow. I think he's the slowest-footed lineman I've seen come out of that Wisconsin program over the last few years... they're usually pretty good athletes coming from there but Frederick is very limited athletically.

    I think people just are not understanding the role of the center in our system. They see interior pressure coming and just assume it's because Birk lost his one-on-one battle with a DT, and they pine for a massive lumbering center who isn't going to give up ground. But the reality is that a zone-blocking center needs to be quick, agile, and technically proficient. In our system the center should NEVER be taking on a lineman one-on-one... they should hit the double-team with the guard, then peel off and get to the 2nd level to hit a LB.

    Those are things Travis Frederick can't do... he's not going to throw a quick seal block, slide off, and move up to the 2nd level. If your system wanted him to solo-block a DT he could do that and do it well. But if we drafted him to play center we would see the exact opposite of what a lot of people expect: interior runs getting blown up because quick LBs shoot the gaps and run right by Frederick.

    Gradkowski is a fine prospect to play center for us. That doesn't mean we don't need to add interior OL depth, we do, but I wouldn't want the Ravens to do it earlier than the 4th or 5th rounds unless a guy like Barrett Jones with his incredible versatility happens to fall way down into the 2nd or so.


    Good post. I agree 100%.
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  8. #1196

    Re: New draft/FA/offseason thread

    Quote Originally Posted by bmorecareful View Post
    This. Travis Frederick is a guard in the NFL. He can't play center, particularly not for a zone-blocking team. His feet are just so, so, SO slow. I think he's the slowest-footed lineman I've seen come out of that Wisconsin program over the last few years... they're usually pretty good athletes coming from there but Frederick is very limited athletically.

    I think people just are not understanding the role of the center in our system. They see interior pressure coming and just assume it's because Birk lost his one-on-one battle with a DT, and they pine for a massive lumbering center who isn't going to give up ground. But the reality is that a zone-blocking center needs to be quick, agile, and technically proficient. In our system the center should NEVER be taking on a lineman one-on-one... they should hit the double-team with the guard, then peel off and get to the 2nd level to hit a LB.

    Those are things Travis Frederick can't do... he's not going to throw a quick seal block, slide off, and move up to the 2nd level. If your system wanted him to solo-block a DT he could do that and do it well. But if we drafted him to play center we would see the exact opposite of what a lot of people expect: interior runs getting blown up because quick LBs shoot the gaps and run right by Frederick.

    Gradkowski is a fine prospect to play center for us. That doesn't mean we don't need to add interior OL depth, we do, but I wouldn't want the Ravens to do it earlier than the 4th or 5th rounds unless a guy like Barrett Jones with his incredible versatility happens to fall way down into the 2nd or so.
    Pretty much.

    And just because a guy is fatter than the guy he is going against doesn't mean that he won't get pushed around at times. It's ALL about leverage and technique. Look at Cody...nobody should be moving him an inch if you just look at his weight. Contrast him with one of the smallest NT in the game for a while in Kelly Gregg who was barely over 300 pounds.

    I don't think Birk loses his battles because he is too small...it's because as players get older, they lose the ability to be consistent with fundamentals and are slower to counter younger, quicker players.
    Although Walsh's system of offense can compensate for lack of talent; however, defense is a different story. According to Walsh, talent on defense was essential and could not be compensated for. What did Walsh do in 1981? He acquired physical and talented players on defense.




  9. #1197

    Re: New draft/FA/offseason thread

    Quote Originally Posted by leachisabeast View Post
    Hodges in the 3rd round could be great value.

    Matt Elam
    Travis Federick
    Gerald Hodges

    Those first 3 picks could offer the best value for us. I think all three are going to raise their stock over the next few months however...
    Quote Originally Posted by wickedsolo View Post
    If they go OL...I hope it is for a LT prospect. I'd rather them go for Oday Aboushi or Brian Winters with their 2nd pick if they go for an OL'man.
    Quote Originally Posted by arnie_uk View Post
    theres no way we go centre in the second round. Too many bigger needs. A guard maybe if they want KO at right tackle. But I see the inside three as set. KO gino and yanda. Oher will be on one side. So we need another starter.

    We will sign a experienced vet to push gino if birk retires.
    1. Knowing/experiencing how we handle our depth charting, Gino is definitely going to be the starting C when Birk retires. If that happens on the night of February 3rd then we don't have a back-up on the roster for 2013.

    1a. Frederick can play the G as well, but he'll go no later than the 2nd and that's too high for a depth pick (assumption: KO is the LG for 2013) unless we have multiple 2nds and/or we think Frederick is soooo BPA that we must take him. I think that there's a good chance that we will manufacture a second 2nd round pick, and I think there's a moderate chance that Frederick is BPA (based upon his C/G flexibility) at any point in the bottom 2/3s of the 2nd round. Maybe not "sooooo BPA, but BPA still.

    1b. If we sign a C in March (e.g., Ryan Lilja [who is a better G than C]) then 1a. above is pretty much off-the-table.

    2. As unlikely as it was just a month ago, The McKinnie Factor can't be ignored. Confidence in him for 2013 will push our LT need from starter to depth. Of course, "soooo BPA" would trump this, but I don't think there's an LT that will be "sooooo BPA" in any round. Obviously, this a huge wild card.

    3. I like Brian Winters, but he looks like a G. If our FO agrees then Frederick has more effective value being a C/G, but does Frederick have more Draft pick value? That depends on where we have Winters slotted on our Board and where we think the other 31 teams have him too. That is, after-all, how we decide to trade up, and in some cases, trade down.

    My OS unit priorities:
    1. OL
    2. DL
    3. ILB




  10. #1198
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    Re: New draft/FA/offseason thread

    Quote Originally Posted by BigPlayReceiver View Post
    1. Knowing/experiencing how we handle our depth charting, Gino is definitely going to be the starting C when Birk retires. If that happens on the night of February 3rd then we don't have a back-up on the roster for 2013.

    1a. Frederick can play the G as well, but he'll go no later than the 2nd and that's too high for a depth pick (assumption: KO is the LG for 2013) unless we have multiple 2nds and/or we think Frederick is soooo BPA that we must take him. I think that there's a good chance that we will manufacture a second 2nd round pick, and I think there's a moderate chance that Frederick is BPA (based upon his C/G flexibility) at any point in the bottom 2/3s of the 2nd round. Maybe not "sooooo BP"A, but BPA still.

    1b. If we sign a C in March (e.g., Ryan Lilja [who is a better G than C]) then 1a. above is pretty much off-the-table.

    2. As unlikely as it was just a month ago, The McKinnie Factor can't be ignored. Confidence in him for 2013 will push our LT need from starter to depth. Of course, "soooo BPA" would trump this, but I don't think there's an LT that will be "sooooo BPA" in any round. Obviously, this a huge wild card.

    3. I like Brian Winters, but he looks like a G. If our FO agrees then Frederick has more effective value being a C/G, but does Frederick have more Draft pick value? That depends on where we have Winters slotted on our Board and where we think the other 31 teams have him too. That is, after-all, how we decide to trade up, and in some cases, trade down.

    My OS unit priorities:
    1. OL
    2. DL
    3. ILB
    I think ILB and pass rusher are way more of a priority than people think.

    This team is going to have to do some MAJOR cap finagling in order to keep Flacco (be it by tag or new deal...hopefully the later), keep Ellerbe, keep McKinnie, keep Kruger, keep all of their RFA's and EFA's, and possibly even keep Ed Reed. The reality is that they are not likely to be able to keep all of those guys. Being that they have Suggs under contract and drafted Upshaw, who has been impressive, I think Kruger is the most likely candidate to walk. In that regard, we're REALLY thin at rush OLB because even though McAdoo and Hamilton are nice prospects, they've done nothing to think that they can replicate what Kruger brings to this defense.

    Don't be surprised if the Ravens target someone like Dion Jordan, Alex Okafor, Margus Hunt, Chase Thomas, Tank Carradine, or maybe even Trent Murphy in the first two rounds.
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  11. #1199

    Re: New draft/FA/offseason thread

    Quote Originally Posted by wickedsolo View Post
    I think ILB and pass rusher are way more of a priority than people think.

    This team is going to have to do some MAJOR cap finagling in order to keep Flacco (be it by tag or new deal...hopefully the later), keep Ellerbe, keep McKinnie, keep Kruger, keep all of their RFA's and EFA's, and possibly even keep Ed Reed. The reality is that they are not likely to be able to keep all of those guys. Being that they have Suggs under contract and drafted Upshaw, who has been impressive, I think Kruger is the most likely candidate to walk. In that regard, we're REALLY thin at rush OLB because even though McAdoo and Hamilton are nice prospects, they've done nothing to think that they can replicate what Kruger brings to this defense.

    Don't be surprised if the Ravens target someone like Dion Jordan, Alex Okafor, Margus Hunt, Chase Thomas, Tank Carradine, or maybe even Trent Murphy in the first two rounds.
    I agree and would put Safety in there as well.

    I also think that just saying "OL" in general isn't really what we need...we really only need a LT IMHO. Every other position on the line is spoken for with relatively young and quality players.

    ILB however is going to be a wasteland if we aren't able to keep Ellerbe and even with him staying, there is a real question of is this a "contract" year performance and we should also have some youth with speed next to him...McClain should really only be a backup.

    Same thing at safety...if we are fortunate enough to win Sunday, I think Ed retires. And if we don't, there is a high likelyhood he doesn't re-sign here. And even if he does come back, he is a year to year "will he or won't he retire" issue. Ihegbido (I don't think he is under contract) and Pollard are both good in the box guys, but both can really be taken advantage of in the passing game. We would really need to infuse some speed back there and get a center fielder.

    And the pass rush is obviously an issue as always. Will Suggs ever get back to where he was? Will Ngata's injuries affect him like they have for the past year and a half for the rest of his time here? McPhee...nobody is mentioning him, but are his knees shot this early...wasn't that a concern for him going into the draft? Big questions on the DL.
    Although Walsh's system of offense can compensate for lack of talent; however, defense is a different story. According to Walsh, talent on defense was essential and could not be compensated for. What did Walsh do in 1981? He acquired physical and talented players on defense.




  12. #1200

    Re: New draft/FA/offseason thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Dirt1 View Post
    Looks like Manti Te'o might be dropping in the draft. He might be there when the Ravens pick.

    http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com...ame-will-hurt/
    i think hes going to be the guy that drops. I think people are going to start to realize he didnt face that great of competition (ND as a whole didnt) and his abilities arent as great as they first appeared. against a dominant college team he got completely manhandled, and teams are going to look at that as the closest to NFL.

    I keep hearing about matt elam. He seems like a thumper more than a ball hawk. Not saying he wont be the pick but id assume some OL and DL/LB help would be a greater need and position that theres plenty of talent at in this draft.
    -JAB




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