Draft / FA / Offseason Roster Moves (Merged)

**bt12483** · 02-15-2013, 02:52 PM

According to NFL Draft insider Tony Pauline, Cal WR Keenan Allen has "not looked anything special" in pre-Combine workouts and "failed to separate himself" from the receivers he's training with. Allen has reportedly not showed the "wow" factor typically associated with a high draft pick, according to Pauline's sources. Allen, listed at 6-foot-3, 210, is coming off a knee injury that cut his junior season three games short. As a sophomore in 2011, Allen racked up 98 receptions, 1,343 yards, and six TDs.

**wickedsolo** · 02-15-2013, 03:53 PM

Originally Posted by bt12483

According to NFL Draft insider Tony Pauline, Cal WR Keenan Allen has "not looked anything special" in pre-Combine workouts and "failed to separate himself" from the receivers he's training with. Allen has reportedly not showed the "wow" factor typically associated with a high draft pick, according to Pauline's sources. Allen, listed at 6-foot-3, 210, is coming off a knee injury that cut his junior season three games short. As a sophomore in 2011, Allen racked up 98 receptions, 1,343 yards, and six TDs.

Yea, I could actually see him sliding into the 3rd round.

**The Excellector** · 02-15-2013, 03:56 PM

There is no structure in Detroit and it starts with the head coach. Greg Williams, Jim Schwartz and Jeff Fisher are all of the same mold: Player coaches who will stomp on your throat when the get the chance, but who struggle to manage team disruptions and other issues.

Titus Young needs structure and I think he could get it here. Look at how many players have come here, from other teams, and raved about the structure and overall uniqueness of the organization?

My issue with Titus Young is whether or not he can stay healthy. However, for 1-2 million, I would be willing to find out.

As for Randy Moss, need I dig up the seemingly endless thread about Moss from last year? The one where I have actually quotes from some of the best talent in the league, coaches and personnel alike, that detail how the general fanbase misconstrues Randy's ways?

I'm not saying the man's an angel. He had a blip on the radar, his second time around in Minnesota and the story about the caterers was true. However, much of this idea that he constantly takes plays off, is actually Moss setting up his routes and that's part of what makes him great. Player quotes and coaches quotes show it.

**Paintballguy** · 02-15-2013, 04:03 PM

No way I would want Titus Young. He's been trouble everywhere he's been.

Young was frequently in trouble off the field during his career at Boise State. He was suspended for most of his sophomore season after fighting with a teammate. This led many NFL teams to pass on him in the 2011 draft. In May 2012, the Lions sent Young home after he sucker-punched Louis Delmas. In November 2012, the Lions sent him home again for conduct detrimental to the team. According to Lions coaches, Young deliberately lined up in the wrong position twice and got into a verbal confrontation with receivers coach Shawn Jefferson.[7][8] It was the last down Young played for the Lions. He was declared inactive for the team's Thanksgiving Day game a week later and told to stay away from the facility. On December 5, the Lions placed Young on injured reserve, ending his season. To express his frustration, Young tweeted about not wanting to play anymore if he did not get the ball.[9] Young was released a little more than a month later.

**The Excellector** · 02-15-2013, 04:03 PM

Dwight Freeney has been told that he will not be with Indianapolis next season.

**The Excellector** · 02-15-2013, 04:04 PM

Originally Posted by Paintballguy

No way I would want Titus Young. He's been trouble everywhere he's been.

Or maybe he's too far gone. lol.

**The Excellector** · 02-15-2013, 04:07 PM

Apparently, Austin Collie will be right behind him.

You know, this might be turning out well for the Ravens. With the cap not increasing, it will force many teams to release valuable players, thus flooding the market. Remember how many ILBs were on the market last year?

**wickedsolo** · 02-15-2013, 04:19 PM

Originally Posted by The Excellector

Apparently, Austin Collie will be right behind him.

You know, this might be turning out well for the Ravens. With the cap not increasing, it will force many teams to release valuable players, thus flooding the market. Remember how many ILBs were on the market last year?

Good point Ex.

That could definitely be a big possibility.

**The Excellector** · 02-15-2013, 04:21 PM

Originally Posted by wickedsolo

Good point Ex.

That could definitely be a big possibility.

My gut still tells me that someone will outbid the Ravens for Paul Kruger. However, it might work in their favor for Ellerbe. Pass rushers are in high demand. Personally, I think that Kruger will continue to struggle against the run, in coverage and without another quality pass rusher opposite him, but someone will pay him to be the man.

**MD Boy** · 02-15-2013, 04:31 PM

Originally Posted by GOTA

Honestly I see Woodson getting more than the vet minimum. If Birk can get more why can't he?

No, you're right. More wishful thinking on my part. Obviously no one is going to pay him was he was going to make this year in GB (~$9M) but someone is going to give Woodson good money to play Safety in their backfield.

Was hoping at his age he might come a little cheaper.

**leachisabeast** · 02-15-2013, 04:43 PM

Paul Kruger was actually really good in coverage this year. His run defense is average. Frankly, he's a more valuable player in todays NFL than Ellerbe is. As good was Ellerbe was this year, lets not forget that he's not great in coverage, and is a North/South LB, and struggles on 3rd downs. I'd rather pay Kruger 6-8 Million a year than pay Ellerbe 5/6 million a year.

**The Excellector** · 02-15-2013, 04:58 PM

Really good in coverage? I don't know about all that.

**srobert96** · 02-15-2013, 05:15 PM

Originally Posted by leachisabeast

Paul Kruger was actually really good in coverage this year. His run defense is average. Frankly, he's a more valuable player in todays NFL than Ellerbe is. As good was Ellerbe was this year, lets not forget that he's not great in coverage, and is a North/South LB, and struggles on 3rd downs. I'd rather pay Kruger 6-8 Million a year than pay Ellerbe 5/6 million a year.

Agreed that he is more valuable than Ellerbe. Problem is the Ravens have a massive hole at ILB without Ellerbe. They have two guys in Upshaw and Suggs that play OLB. I think Kruger is getting 9m+ a year.

**leachisabeast** · 02-15-2013, 05:16 PM

Originally Posted by The Excellector

Really good in coverage? I don't know about all that.

3-4 OLBs aren't supposed to drop back into coverage much, but he was really good for someone of that position. Maybe really good is over exaggerating it, but he was decent for what a pass rusher.

**leachisabeast** · 02-15-2013, 05:22 PM

Originally Posted by srobert96

Agreed that he is more valuable than Ellerbe. Problem is the Ravens have a massive hole at ILB without Ellerbe. They have two guys in Upshaw and Suggs that play OLB. I think Kruger is getting 9m+ a year.

I doubt he gets 9M a year. I read a report a week or two back that Seattle were interested, but not for 9M a year. Kruger also said he was open for a hometown discount, which is pretty nice. Marshall Yanda took a home town discount to stay in Baltimore over the Redskins (who I'm pretty sure offered him around 3 million more than our offer). Not saying Kruger will be the same, but he seems to really like it on this team. The fact that we just won the SB, and with Ray retiring, Kruger may even like the potential of him becoming more of a leader of this defense.

ILBs are not extremely hard to find. For example, you could actually save more money by signing a more proven but older player like Nick Barnett who is now on the market, and he can cover a lot better than what Ellerbe can. Not saying we should just go out and sign a 31 year old LB, but I'm just using him as an example. Pass rushers on the other hand are much harder to find, and make a much bigger impact on a defense in todays game.

Plus if the Dline is good, it generally helps the ILBs no matter how average they are. You get a healthy Suggs, and a healthy Ngata, to go along with Art Jones/McPhee, and Kruger/Upshaw plus one or two decent players I expect to be drafted, that Dline is likely to be as good as it was in 2011. Josh Bynes and a rookie would look better behind that line. Now, again, I very much doubt we go into the season with Josh Bynes and a rookie as the starters, but its something to consider.

**arnie_uk** · 02-16-2013, 02:45 AM

Originally Posted by leachisabeast

No, I didn't flat out say, lets trade Alex Smith for Flacco. I said Alex Smith can play for a talented team and have success for a very cheap price, which is pretty much true. I said that IF Flacco priced him self out of Baltimore (bearing in mind this was after arguably his worst performance in his career) that Alex Smith may be someone to look at.

Again, I love how you like to bring up things people said back in Novemeber/December, when I already admitted that I was wrong about where Flacco ranks in the league. We've moved on past that now.

its the first time I've done it, and only reason I've done it was bcause you've went from saying he could come here to not understanding why people like him. You contradict yourself all the time and don't think people notice when in fact they do and you've been called out by a few different people on a few different occasions.

**leachisabeast** · 02-16-2013, 05:26 AM

Originally Posted by arnie_uk

its the first time I've done it, and only reason I've done it was bcause you've went from saying he could come here to not understanding why people like him. You contradict yourself all the time and don't think people notice when in fact they do and you've been called out by a few different people on a few different occasions.

This is actually like the 3rd time in an around about way bringing shit up I've said in the past when I already admitted I was wrong.

The Jets and the Cheifs aren't very good teams with or without GOOD QBs thats what I'm saying. They are more than a QB away from competing. Alex Smith is a good option for talented teams that need a QB to manage the game for them. There really isn't many of those teams out there atm because all the good teams are set at QB now, but last year Seattle could have had Alex Smith and would have probably made the play offs. The Jets need to start over and get a young QB like Kirk Cousins, instead of getting a game manager, because they aren't very good on defense anymore, and they can't run the ball to save their lives.

Basically what I'm saying is, I like Alex Smith for a tough defense/good running type team, but not for a team looking to rebuild. Thats not contradicting anything at all.

**The Excellector** · 02-16-2013, 07:57 AM

If you can look at the nature of what Paul Kruger was asked to do, you can also look at the nature of what Ellerbe was asked to do, as well as the nature of what his replacement would be asked to do.

Ellerbe has taken up the position that Bart Scott used to hold, that Ed Hartwell used to hold. The responsibility for that position, as the Ravens dictate through their defensive system, is to blitz and blow up the hole so that the other ILB can come in a pick up the pieces. Ellerbe fits in that role. If anybody would be asked to hang around in coverage more, it would be the guy stepping into Ray's spot.

Paul Kruger couldn't fully fill the shoes of the Jarret Johnson role, which is why it will only be a matter of time before Courtney Upshaw becomes a full time starter. The responsibilities of that position, as the Ravens dictate by their defensive system, is to set the edge in run defense, drop into zone coverage and provide a bit of pass rush along the way. Kruger doesn't fit the nature of the way the Ravens want that position to be played.

**leachisabeast** · 02-16-2013, 08:02 AM

Great points. But Kruger brings a dimension that neither JJ or Upshaw can. I just really like the idea of kruger opposite a fully healthy Suggs with Ngata in the middle, to me, that's whats the NFL is geared up for these days. You can get by with average MLBs (not saying we should just plug the middle of our defense in with average players, its certainly a big need) when you have a great defensive line. Look at the Giants in 2011, they had some pretty average LBs, but the Dline was out of this world in the play offs, and they went on to win the SB off the back off their defense getting after the QB.

**The Excellector** · 02-16-2013, 08:07 AM

Originally Posted by leachisabeast

Great points. But Kruger brings a dimension that neither JJ or Upshaw can. I just really like the idea of kruger opposite a fully healthy Suggs with Ngata in the middle, to me, that's whats the NFL is geared up for these days. You can get by with average MLBs (not saying we should just plug the middle of our defense in with average players, its certainly a big need) when you have a great defensive line. Look at the Giants in 2011, they had some pretty average LBs, but the Dline was out of this world in the play offs, and they went on to win the SB off the back off their defense getting after the QB.

If you don't think that Kruger would get 9 million, what do you think he would get?