Draft / FA / Offseason Roster Moves (Merged)

**wickedsolo** · 12-20-2012, 06:19 AM

Originally Posted by leachisabeast

Second round pick (Currently projected at 55):

Kevin Minter, 6'2, 245 lbs, Linebacker, LSU.

Kevin Minter is an underrated prospect, which is strange coming from a big school like LSU. I'm sure GOTA can provide some more inside info on him being a big LSU fan. He is more of a inside run defender than a guy who drops back into coverage, which I know is a big need, but he can probably still do that better than any LB we currently have anyway. We need to add some speed into this front 7 if we ever want to get back to playing elite defense, and drafting a Kevin Minter could be a good start to that. Minter is listed as 6'2, but he looks more along the lines of 6'1, but that shouldn't put many people off, as there are many 6'1 LB's who have had HOF careers, like someone we all know too well.

I wasn't real big on Reddick out of UNC, but he has come on as of late. He started the season off slow, but as the season went on he made a lot of plays.

Reddick could also be an option.

**leachisabeast** · 12-20-2012, 06:20 AM

Originally Posted by GOTA

Minter is a good player but I think he'll be available further down the draft. Like you said he's short which isn't a problem. And yes, I don't believe he's 6'2. I wouldn't be shocked if he's a little over 6' at the Combine. However he's not lightening fast. He's very quick but he lacks that elite speed that teams are looking for from a shorter LB. That's what pushed other short ILB guys like Mychal Kendricks up in the draft. It's just a guess but I think the Combine is going push Minter down to the 3rd or 4th round. Some team is going to get a real bargain when they take him there.

Minter broke out this year and showed that he could shed blockers and tackle anything near him. He's what you want in the middle from a physical standpoint. Hard to tell if he's mentally up to the position. The adjustments aren't even close to the same level in college. He did end up as the clear leader of that defense this year so that's another quality you're looking for at MLB. I'd be happy to draft him especially in the 3rd or lower.

That would be great if we could get him in the third round, would be a great value pick. So basically I as correct on my analyses that he's more of a run defending LB who's maybe a better fit as a 3-4 ILB like in our scheme rather than a speedy 4-3 LB who has to drop back into coverage etc? That's what I've seen of him anyway.

**arnie_uk** · 12-20-2012, 06:20 AM

Originally Posted by GOTA

Minter is a good player but I think he'll be available further down the draft. Like you said he's short which isn't a problem. And yes, I don't believe he's 6'2. I wouldn't be shocked if he's a little over 6' at the Combine. However he's not lightening fast. He's very quick but he lacks that elite speed that teams are looking for from a shorter LB. That's what pushed other short ILB guys like Mychal Kendricks up in the draft. It's just a guess but I think the Combine is going push Minter down to the 3rd or 4th round. Some team is going to get a real bargain when they take him there.

Minter broke out this year and showed that he could shed blockers and tackle anything near him. He's what you want in the middle from a physical standpoint. Hard to tell if he's mentally up to the position. The adjustments aren't even close to the same level in college. He did end up as the clear leader of that defense this year so that's another quality you're looking for at MLB. I'd be happy to draft him especially in the 3rd or lower.

That's what I thought. There's easily three four ilbs in front of him. He won't be going in the second.

**leachisabeast** · 12-20-2012, 06:23 AM

Originally Posted by arnie_uk

Arthur Brown imo is the best linebacker. I had him ahead of Mosley to. He's the one guy I want out of anyone.

What good pass rushers has Fisher faced in his career? That's the issue with him

Maybe we could double up on LB's? I mean it is a big need IMO. I too like Arthur Brown a lot, but I'm not that sold on his size/physicality in our 3-4 scheme, worried about the big guards coming up and taking him out of the game. With that said, Timmons is probably the best ILB in the AFC North right now and plays in a similar scheme and is only 234 lbs, he reminds me of Arthur Brown, as does CJ Moseley.

**arnie_uk** · 12-20-2012, 06:26 AM

Originally Posted by leachisabeast

Maybe we could double up on LB's? I mean it is a big need IMO. I too like Arthur Brown a lot, but I'm not that sold on his size/physicality in our 3-4 scheme, worried about the big guards coming up and taking him out of the game. With that said, Timmons is probably the best ILB in the AFC North right now and plays in a similar scheme and is only 234 lbs, he reminds me of Arthur Brown, as does CJ Moseley.

Brown can take on blocks well, great use of his hands. Great instincts and play recognition all helps in avoiding blockers. He's an elite coverage player with great speed. Exactly what the doctor ordered.

**wickedsolo** · 12-20-2012, 06:29 AM

I think doubling up on linebackers is something that they should definitely consider. There are some good one's in this draft.

**wickedsolo** · 12-20-2012, 06:29 AM

I am also hoping that they switch to more of a 4-3 front...That would assist the pass rush a lot and would assist with covering the middle of the field.

**leachisabeast** · 12-20-2012, 06:30 AM

Originally Posted by arnie_uk

Brown can take on blocks well, great use of his hands. Great instincts and play recognition all helps in avoiding blockers. He's an elite coverage player with great speed. Exactly what the doctor ordered.

True that. Maybe we could take him in the second, and hope that Minter drops to the fourth, and in the mean time we can get my boy out of Wisconsin in the third and a legit LT in the first round. Biggest needs are without doubt OL and LB, and this draft is stacked with both.

**leachisabeast** · 12-20-2012, 06:32 AM

Originally Posted by wickedsolo

I am also hoping that they switch to more of a 4-3 front...That would assist the pass rush a lot and would assist with covering the middle of the field.

Sounds good in theory, Arthur Jones and McPhee are probably better fits as one gap DT's than 3-4 DE's, while Ngata could wreck havoc in that scheme, whenever Chuck got the D to line up in a 4-3 last year, Ngata looked great there, as he did in Rex' hybrid scheme.

The only issue is where do you put Upshaw in a 4-3 front? LB or DE?

**leachisabeast** · 12-20-2012, 06:47 AM

Went back to watch some tape on A Brown. I can see the upside with him in pass coverage and sideline speed, I get the attraction in todays league, he made a nice pick at the end too. However, I counted eight missed tackles, and he got pancaked once too. He is going to have to improve that aspect of his game, because in the AFCN he is going to get trounced in the run game when guys like Willie Colon or Kevin Zeitler come up to the second level on him.

Maybe it was just a bad game for him, but it is still alarming.

**wickedsolo** · 12-20-2012, 06:50 AM

Originally Posted by leachisabeast

Sounds good in theory, Arthur Jones and McPhee are probably better fits as one gap DT's than 3-4 DE's, while Ngata could wreck havoc in that scheme, whenever Chuck got the D to line up in a 4-3 last year, Ngata looked great there, as he did in Rex' hybrid scheme.

The only issue is where do you put Upshaw in a 4-3 front? LB or DE?

I would line Upshaw up as a 4-3 DE in a second. He's a so-so pass rusher, but he is pretty solid against the run. He'd be an ideal 4-3 LE, IMO, opposite of Suggs. Then, in sub-packages, he slides over to DT with McPhee and Kruger (assuming he is retained) comes in at LE/Rusher.

**leachisabeast** · 12-20-2012, 06:53 AM

Originally Posted by wickedsolo

I would line Upshaw up as a 4-3 DE in a second. He's a so-so pass rusher, but he is pretty solid against the run. He'd be an ideal 4-3 LE, IMO, opposite of Suggs. Then, in sub-packages, he slides over to DT with McPhee and Kruger (assuming he is retained) comes in at LE/Rusher.

So a front of Suggs-Ngata-Jones/McPhee-Upshaw, sounds nasty.

**wickedsolo** · 12-20-2012, 06:55 AM

Originally Posted by leachisabeast

So a front of Suggs-Ngata-Jones/McPhee-Upshaw, sounds nasty.

I agree.

McPhee and Ngata swap out on sub-packages. This also helps Ngata reduce the number of snaps he sees on the field. It was posted on other threads and I tend to agree. I think Ngata is on the field too much this year and it causes him to be less effective.

A scheme switch also assists the Ravens by opening up several more LB options who may be better suited for a 4-3...
Alec Ogletree, Arthur Brown, Jelani Jenkins, Khaseem Greene, etc.

**leachisabeast** · 12-20-2012, 07:04 AM

Originally Posted by wickedsolo

I agree.

McPhee and Ngata swap out on sub-packages. This also helps Ngata reduce the number of snaps he sees on the field. It was posted on other threads and I tend to agree. I think Ngata is on the field too much this year and it causes him to be less effective.

A scheme switch also assists the Ravens by opening up several more LB options who may be better suited for a 4-3...
Alec Ogletree, Arthur Brown, Jelani Jenkins, Khaseem Greene, etc.

I would like to see McClellan and Elerbe in a 4-3 scheme too.

**Iscull** · 12-20-2012, 07:15 AM

Anyone think if we really do shake-up the coaching staff this off-season we look at Romeo Crennel? He's probably going to be let go by KC, and is a great DC.

**GOTA** · 12-20-2012, 07:30 AM

Originally Posted by leachisabeast

That would be great if we could get him in the third round, would be a great value pick. So basically I as correct on my analyses that he's more of a run defending LB who's maybe a better fit as a 3-4 ILB like in our scheme rather than a speedy 4-3 LB who has to drop back into coverage etc? That's what I've seen of him anyway.

You're right. He's much more of a run defender at least in the system he played in. I do think he could drop back and defend but I haven't seen enough of it. Stopping the run is always job 1 in the SEC.

Outside of the top prospects it's tough to predict where guys are going to go. We need more info and that won't come until the post season games and the Combine. It's all just shooting in dark at this point.

**wickedsolo** · 12-20-2012, 07:32 AM

Originally Posted by Iscull

Anyone think if we really do shake-up the coaching staff this off-season we look at Romeo Crennel? He's probably going to be let go by KC, and is a great DC.

He and Ron Rivera would be my top 2 candidates at DC.

I always liked Crennell.

**bmorecareful** · 12-20-2012, 07:37 AM

I agree with the move to the 4-3 100%. That's the direction the league is going and it would make better use of our resources. Upshaw would be a good power/run-stuffing LDE to complement Suggs on the other side, Ngata and Jones offer good run stuffing up the middle, and it would help keep our LBs cleaner and more able to make plays.

I also like it because I think it gives us a chance to keep McClellan on the field... think he's a REALLY underrated player who would make a great 4-3 SAM. They would need to re-sign Ellerbe to play in the middle and go out and get a young, fast guy to play on the weak side.

Here's something to think about... do NOT be surprised if we take an uber-athletic DE/OLB type of guy in the 1st or 2nd round if somebody slips. The Giants have taught the entire league at this point that you never have enough pass rushers, and we actually don't have a single super-athletic guy to come in and rush the passer. Suggs used to be that kind of guy, but he is a VERY old 30 years of age right now and there's no guarantee he comes back 100% ever again. Upshaw on the other side is not a true quick-twitch rusher. At a minimum they need at least ONE guy who can come into the nickel package and rush from the edge with pure speed.

They have Adrian Hamilton on the practice squad and Michael McAdoo on IR, but both of those guys are UDFAs and no guarantee to pan out. Even if they do, again you can never have enough pass rushers. Of course, if they're able to re-sign Kruger that changes things, but I'm really thinking they're not going to be able to do that as he's going to get paid to be an every-down player somewhere else. He would still be a rotation guy here in Baltimore, albeit definitely seeing a lot of snaps.

Todd McShay (a guy I have mixed feelings about as a draft analyst) had us taking Corey Lemonier in the 1st... NOT a player I like, NOT a pick I like... but I think the "dark horse" kind of pick could be a DE/OLB.

**leachisabeast** · 12-20-2012, 07:52 AM

Originally Posted by bmorecareful

I agree with the move to the 4-3 100%. That's the direction the league is going and it would make better use of our resources. Upshaw would be a good power/run-stuffing LDE to complement Suggs on the other side, Ngata and Jones offer good run stuffing up the middle, and it would help keep our LBs cleaner and more able to make plays.

I also like it because I think it gives us a chance to keep McClellan on the field... think he's a REALLY underrated player who would make a great 4-3 SAM. They would need to re-sign Ellerbe to play in the middle and go out and get a young, fast guy to play on the weak side.

Here's something to think about... do NOT be surprised if we take an uber-athletic DE/OLB type of guy in the 1st or 2nd round if somebody slips. The Giants have taught the entire league at this point that you never have enough pass rushers, and we actually don't have a single super-athletic guy to come in and rush the passer. Suggs used to be that kind of guy, but he is a VERY old 30 years of age right now and there's no guarantee he comes back 100% ever again. Upshaw on the other side is not a true quick-twitch rusher. At a minimum they need at least ONE guy who can come into the nickel package and rush from the edge with pure speed.

They have Adrian Hamilton on the practice squad and Michael McAdoo on IR, but both of those guys are UDFAs and no guarantee to pan out. Even if they do, again you can never have enough pass rushers. Of course, if they're able to re-sign Kruger that changes things, but I'm really thinking they're not going to be able to do that as he's going to get paid to be an every-down player somewhere else. He would still be a rotation guy here in Baltimore, albeit definitely seeing a lot of snaps.

Todd McShay (a guy I have mixed feelings about as a draft analyst) had us taking Corey Lemonier in the 1st... NOT a player I like, NOT a pick I like... but I think the "dark horse" kind of pick could be a DE/OLB.

Todd McShay is an idiot and doesn't know much more than we do if at all. Corey is a 3rd round projection IMO, to even consider him as a first round pick for us is complete stupidity IMO. I actually am willing to bet money that Suggs will be back strong by next season, he's a beast.

**bmorecareful** · 12-20-2012, 08:06 AM

Originally Posted by leachisabeast

Todd McShay is an idiot and doesn't know much more than we do if at all. Corey is a 3rd round projection IMO, to even consider him as a first round pick for us is complete stupidity IMO. I actually am willing to bet money that Suggs will be back strong by next season, he's a beast.

Todd McShay says a lot of really dumb stuff, but he's been right before even when he went against the grain. He said Jimmy Clausen would bust and everybody ripped him for that but he was absolutely dead on. But I totally agree with you that he's dead wrong about Corey Lemonier, I don't like Lemonier as a player pretty much at all and he's definitely not a 1st rounder. I was just pointing out that mocking a DE/OLB to us in the 1st SEEMS like a long shot right now because we have so many other needs, but that I actually understand it as long as it's the BPA. We have a need there that people aren't paying attention to.

I actually think it's probably about 50/50 whether Suggs ever plays at 2010/2011 DPOY type level again. People look at him and say, "oh he's only 30 he'll be good another 3 or 4 years" but the dude has been in the league 10 years already and has a TON of wear on his body. Now he rushed back from an Achilles, still isn't really in shape at all, and is trying to deal with a torn biceps (and playing with a torn biceps could cause permanent damage).

I'm calling it 50/50 because I don't want to ever bet against Suggs... but I think there's a good chance he never plays at his best level again. This team needs an insurance policy and to groom a potential successor before it becomes too late. Just look at what happened to this team counting on Ray Lewis and Ed Reed to come back year after year without ever grooming their replacements... that approach hasn't been successful.