Calls to fire Harbaugh are ridiculous (Merged)

**JohnBKistler** · 12-09-2012, 09:43 PM

Originally Posted by ActualSpamBot

100% psu.

As for the calls from Boulder to bring in Rex.... What the actual fuck have you been watching? Madden? Because you sure as shit haven't been watching football.

Please tell me someone didn't seriously suggest this.

**Whitty Hutton** · 12-09-2012, 10:00 PM

Originally Posted by psuasskicker

It's laughable to suggest that team was more injured than this one. And while the prior year's team was 13-3, the one before that was 6-10. When Harbaugh came in, the Ravens were coming off a three-year stretch of 24-24 football with one playoff home loss, putting up six points on a team which gave up fewer than 14 points once that season, and that one time they gave up thirteen.

Cam's weakness isn't necessarily his offensive system, it's the fact that the talent on this offense is built to succeed doing things Cam's system doesn't call for. Yes, Harbaugh's biggest weakness as a coach is his inability to get Cam out of town. But unless everyone here basically forgot Caldwell's hire as sending a clear message that Cam better get it done this year or else, I'm not even close to ready to say a change won't be made. If not, yes, that falls on Harbs. However, lest we all forget what exactly Cam and Harbaugh have done offensively, the last five years we've ranked 11th and 17th in pts/yds, while for five years before that we ranked 18th and 23rd.

Harbaugh could lose out this season and would have 53 regular season wins. That's five wins more than Billick's best five-year stretch with this team. In fact, if you take Billick's five BEST seasons with the Ravens, it totals 54 wins.

This whole argument is shockingly stupid to me. Like, it's hard to imagine it's actually happening. We're 9-4 despite having virtually every one of our best players on defense injured or falling off the age cliff, not to mention a bunch of other starters injured. At least half the other NFL teams would KILL to have our coaching "problems." Teams like the Browns, Bills, Chiefs, Panthers, etc who have barely sniffed the playoffs in the past ten years are drooling over the thought of going to the playoffs five years in a row.

Seven of the other 31 franchises have won the Super Bowl since our Lombardy. You can count on one hand the number of teams with more playoff wins or regular season wins than the Ravens over the last five years. But please, by all means, go on trying to convince us how we're really an amazeballs team with shitty coaching which has been holding the Ravens back these five years and we would be better off scrapping it all and going a different direction.

- C -

This is by no means a bad team despite what many may feel. Arizona is a bad team. Seeing this team be so close to a Superbowl these past few years just to come up short because of the same problems has made many of us irate to the point of being irrational to the majority of NFL fans that haven't seen their teams have that much "close but no cigar" success.

**houstonravensfan** · 12-09-2012, 10:07 PM

Originally Posted by Whitty Hutton

Harbaugh has his faults, but a coach of a team that's been contending for AFC championships 4 straight years IS NOT going to get fired. Especially in a year in which the team is riddled with injuries and still guaranteed to have a winning record.

And the OC of the team that has been contending for AFC championships 4 straight years? How can Harbs fire him?

**Boulderraven** · 12-09-2012, 10:10 PM

Originally Posted by JohnBKistler

Please tell me someone didn't seriously suggest this.

Why not, I am sure he has learned from his mistakes. He lost his best offensive player, his best defensive player and has NO OLINE and the worst QB in the NFL and they are ONLY 2 games behind us, while playing a tougher schedule. One thing for sure, he will get the defense back on track.

**bacchys** · 12-09-2012, 10:11 PM

Originally Posted by psuasskicker

Cam's weakness isn't necessarily his offensive system, it's the fact that the talent on this offense is built to succeed doing things Cam's system doesn't call for. Yes, Harbaugh's biggest weakness as a coach is his inability to get Cam out of town. But unless everyone here basically forgot Caldwell's hire as sending a clear message that Cam better get it done this year or else, I'm not even close to ready to say a change won't be made. If not, yes, that falls on Harbs. However, lest we all forget what exactly Cam and Harbaugh have done offensively, the last five years we've ranked 11th and 17th in pts/yds, while for five years before that we ranked 18th and 23rd.

I'd have to quibble with the above, from a post I generally agree with.

It's not a mismatch of player ability and scheme. We certainly have the pieces to operate the Coryell. The problem is play selection and half the playbook seems to be missing. The Coryell is a system that *builds* to big plays. Cameron the last couple of years tries to force the big plays. Smith and Jacoby may not be the best route runners in the NFL, but it doesn't take a great route-runner to run the quick slant. Kelly Washington could run the slant. He even did it a few times here in a Ravens uniform (hard as that is to believe).

The Ravens rushed the ball 30 times (not counting Flacco's rushes) against the Redskins, but drives stalled out in the second half because when we did have to make a third down, every route was either a slower-developing out route or down the field. There's no misdirection, no quick routes, and it doesn't look like the Ravens have any "hot reads" for Flacco and the receivers to miscommunicate on. Even when a blitz is obvious, the receivers are still running a curl, out-route, or streak.

There are problems in execution, but that's not the entirety of the problem. Simply executing isn't enough: the coaches have to put the players in a position where they can succeed.

**bacchys** · 12-09-2012, 10:11 PM

Originally Posted by houstonravensfan

And the OC of the team that has been contending for AFC championships 4 straight years? How can Harbs fire him?

Because coordinators get graded on how their unit performs, while coaches get graded on wins.

**StingerNLG** · 12-09-2012, 10:17 PM

Originally Posted by bacchys

I'd have to quibble with the above, from a post I generally agree with.

It's not a mismatch of player ability and scheme. We certainly have the pieces to operate the Coryell. The problem is play selection and half the playbook seems to be missing. The Coryell is a system that *builds* to big plays. Cameron the last couple of years tries to force the big plays. Smith and Jacoby may not be the best route runners in the NFL, but it doesn't take a great route-runner to run the quick slant. Kelly Washington could run the slant. He even did it a few times here in a Ravens uniform (hard as that is to believe).

The Ravens rushed the ball 30 times (not counting Flacco's rushes) against the Redskins, but drives stalled out in the second half because when we did have to make a third down, every route was either a slower-developing out route or down the field. There's no misdirection, no quick routes, and it doesn't look like the Ravens have any "hot reads" for Flacco and the receivers to miscommunicate on. Even when a blitz is obvious, the receivers are still running a curl, out-route, or streak.

There are problems in execution, but that's not the entirety of the problem. Simply executing isn't enough: the coaches have to put the players in a position where they can succeed.

If you look at the play on the interception, everyone was headed to the endzone. There was no checkdown ability. A quick slant from the slot receiver could have been a great play considering the extra LB blitzing from that side.

And man, I remember Kelley Washington. We called him "Mr. 3rd Down", because that is what he did best for us. He converted 3rd downs all day with that slant he ran. We don't have that now. In fact, it was sad that in the game thread plays every other team makes regularly we were joking were trick plays for Cam.

And look what happened the second time the Redskins ran that same blitz. Boldin ran a short pattern and Joe got him the ball quick, and he bulldozed 21 yards. We should have a receiver running that router or an inside route routinely. If nothing else to clear out a zone and get man coverage on that side of the field.

**bacchys** · 12-09-2012, 10:21 PM

Originally Posted by StingerNLG

]And look what happened the second time the Redskins ran that same blitz. Boldin ran a short pattern and Joe got him the ball quick, and he bulldozed 21 yards. We should have a receiver running that router or an inside route routinely. If nothing else to clear out a zone and get man coverage on that side of the field.

Even the Boldin route wasn't a quick (hot) pass to beat a blitz. The pass pro did a better job slowing the pass rush.

I know the damn plays are in the playbook. I've seen them run those plays. I just don't understand why we don't use them in situations that every other team in the NFL- even the really, really bad ones, seem to do.

Slants work against press and they work when the corners lay off. The best defense against those plays is the pass rush getting their hands up. I don't think the reason we don't run them is Flacco, either. He was the QB throwing those slants to Washington, after all.

**Jsmoove** · 12-09-2012, 11:20 PM

We just fuckin lost to Charlie batch and some fuckin 5th round rookie named cousins, harbaugh should be down right fuckin embarrassed to watch his fuckin balswashing assistant go into 3 man rush on a goal line , that right there showed me enough to see what kinda gutless chicken shit coaching staff this is. You know what harbaugh brother did in san fran when his QB threw a pick? He dailed up another play to his QB to complete to get his confidence back. Not fuckin John, he goes into a fuckin shell like the rest of his assistants. This is a gutless team with no balls anymore i am done with this season had enough of the bullshit heartless, play not to lose bullshit, fuckin high school football strategy and planning. Fuck harbaugh fuck cam and fuck that ass hole pees,all their coward asses need to agitate the gravel!

**Boulderraven** · 12-09-2012, 11:25 PM

That would be 6 losses in a row. With possible home playoff game loss to either Rookie INDIANAPOLIS COLTS led Andrew Luck, Division Rival Pittsburgh Steelers, or former coach Marvin Lewis of division rival Bengals. It will make for interesting discussion and offseason.
I think he will, cause he will have lost the team. Don't know many coaches who havent won a SB be able to withstand that. It's possible. The Ravens lost to a Rookie QB in Cousins and Charlie Batch led Steelers who have been AWFUL accept for games vs the Ravens ONLY. Steelers are terrible.

**GaTechRavens** · 12-09-2012, 11:26 PM

Originally Posted by Boulderraven

Why not, I am sure he has learned from his mistakes. He lost his best offensive player, his best defensive player and has NO OLINE and the worst QB in the NFL and they are ONLY 2 games behind us, while playing a tougher schedule. One thing for sure, he will get the defense back on track.

I'm sure has has learned from the mistakes he is currently in the process of making this season.

**ActualSpamBot** · 12-09-2012, 11:55 PM

He's got a .700 winning percent, is going to win the division two straight years, is dealing with the loss of a sure fire Hall of Famer, the reigning DMVP, his top two corners, his other starting linebacker, that linebacker's replacement is injured, his best d line man is dealing with chronic injuries that have massively reduced his effectiveness, and Ed Reed has forgotten how to tackle.

He's not getting fired. And your hard on for us losing out is pathetic. Any "fan" who wants his team to lose should just sell the PSLs and go play Madden. Fake ass fans disgust me.

**GaTechRavens** · 12-09-2012, 11:56 PM

Nope. If we choose to embrace that mentality - and enforce it on a consistent basis - we'll end up like the Raiders.

**Jsmoove** · 12-10-2012, 12:02 AM

You know wham starting to see a trend here and if we are just hapoy with winning the division and making a playoff appearance and playing down to competition and lose close games because this coaching staff doesn't adjust consistently is consisntent , then sure keep harbs for another 10yrs...if mediocrity is what we want to achieve. I won't say fire him soon but they better be jumping his ass on making some changes ASAP!!

**Benny8444** · 12-10-2012, 12:44 AM

NO WAY he gets fired this year. 5 straight playoff bearths wont get you fired i am sorry. If the season does not end on a good note i think Harbs is FORCED to make changes but none will involve him. He is here for a while after 5 straight playoff bearhts. It will take a missed playoffs next year to put him on the hot seat and then another bad year the following year to get him fired. He has the same status as Tomlin, will Take a lot to get him fired. and yes Tomlin has a super bowl Harbs has a better record and 5 straight playoff bearths. Tomlin never had 3 straight seasons in the playoffs.

Billick was not fired after 2005 when a lot of people thought he would be but it took another losing season 2 seasons later to finally get him fired.

**Kevlar** · 12-10-2012, 12:58 AM

20 coaches wont make the playoffs. four who do will lose on wildcard weekend. Do you see 3/4ths of the teams in the league fire their coach every season?

Harbaugh isnt going anywhere. You would have to be delusional to even entertain the thought. Or just have a very poor grasp of how professional sports teams operate.

**Boulderraven** · 12-10-2012, 01:09 AM

Ii

Originally Posted by Kevlar

20 coaches wont make the playoffs. four who do will lose on wildcard weekend. Do you see 3/4ths of the teams in the league fire their coach every season?

Harbaugh isnt going anywhere. You would have to be delusional to even entertain the thought. Or just have a very poor grasp of how professional sports teams operate.

Billick was fired under similar circumstances, has he lost the team? Coaches usually grow stale in 5-7 years. except great ones like Belicheat. The act grows old on the players. This is what we are talking about an EPIC collapse. 9-2 to 9-8, with a home playoff loss to rookie QB from INDY.

**Boulderraven** · 12-10-2012, 01:12 AM

Originally Posted by Kevlar

20 coaches wont make the playoffs. four who do will lose on wildcard weekend. Do you see 3/4ths of the teams in the league fire their coach every season?

Harbaugh isnt going anywhere. You would have to be delusional to even entertain the thought. Or just have a very poor grasp of how professional sports teams operate.

Coaches who have lost playoff games have been canned in the past.

**darb72** · 12-10-2012, 01:24 AM

Ya know, I've had the OP on ignore for quite some time now so I can't read anything he's posted in this thread.

Bet I can guess.

-Ravens need to lose in order to get rid of Harbaugh.
-Harbaugh sucks.
-He really hopes the Ravens lose the rest of their games so Harbaugh will get fired.

That about sum it up?

As a side note, this forum used to be one of the most intelligent places on the net for Raven's talk. Now we have idiotic threads like this one popping up all over the place.

**GaTechRavens** · 12-10-2012, 02:11 AM

Originally Posted by Boulderraven

Coaches who have lost playoff games have been canned in the past.

And most of those teams came to regret it. Every single team who fired Marty Schottenheimer didn't take long to go down the crapper. The 49ers collapsed immediately after they let Steve Mariucci go. The Raiders fell apart one year after Al Davis traded Jon Gruden. The Oilers hit rock bottom almost immediately after firing Bum Phillips.

But the grass is always greener on the other side, right?