Does Joe Flacco, a/k/a Joe Statue, have a Low Football IQ?

[Haloti92]

Not sure what the relevance of 75% specifically is, but a PERFECT (158.3) passer rating requires 77.5%, so maybe just the allusion to that lends the relevance?

Another bit of context that should be added to the stats above--what was the OPPOSING QB's rating in each of those games? The guys at www.coldhardfootballfacts.com have used a set of "Quality Statistics" to analyze and predict game outcomes for a while now. One of their quality stats is Passer Rating Differential--basically, which QB had a higher rating. Unsurprisingly, they've found that higher QB ratings tend to correlate with winning in terms of both game-day comparisons and over the course of a season.

Although Joe had a 120+ rating yesterday, RGIII's rating was higher. I would wager that in all (or most) of the games you looked at, the winning QB simply had the higher rating, and it's quite rare to have a game where BOTH QB's have such a good rating.

Interesting and good post. I still think the 75% comp. rate is so prohibitive as to make the data meaningless. The other stats he was sorting by make more sense, they are not all that freakish like a 75% comp rate. Using his comp. rate criterion you are looking at very rare games, and almost certainly games where the QB has limited attempts, 16/21 in this case, or Alex Smith-like 17 for 19, with limited total yardage, etc.

Best rating I have seen by a losing QB (and I haven't searched really hard) is Romo's loss to the Giants last year, 37-34, where he finished 21/31 for 321 yds, 4 TDs/0 INTs (0 fumbles), and a rating of 141.3. Eli's stats for that game were 27/47 for 400 yds, 2 TDs/1 INT (0 fumbles), and a rating of 90.7. The interesting thing about those stats is that ESPN's proprietary QBR stat gives Eli the higher performance (Eli QBR: 78.1; Romo QBR: 74.6). So apparently Romo had more time and more open receivers, etc or something that made his clearly superior statistical results less notable than Eli's. And on that note, ESPN's QBR for Flacco yesterday was 54.2 compared to RG3's 43.7

In any event, Joe obviously did not lose us the game, lol. And to me, not too many people are claiming that as much as (over)analyzing the turnovers to see if there is some kind of issue there. Which may or not be considered an interesting or legitimate topic depending on who you ask.

[Haloti92]

Well completion percentage is relevant because the higher it is, the more command the offense should have on the game. If you're completing 50% of your passes, it probably means you're susceptible to a lot of stalled drives because of those incompletions. If you're completing 75% of your passes, it should mean you're moving the ball at will, more or less.

That's why there's a near perfect win rate when the performance looks like Joe's did, completion percentage and all.

But, just because you asked, here's the results if you take completion percentage out of the equation:

227 such performances since 2008, and the QB record in those performances is 198-29, including Flacco's loss yesterday, which is still an .872 winning percentage!

And hey, I could get behind making the argument that it's about efficiency at quarterback, not raw numbers. So how about we consider that Flacco threw the ball 21 times, and had a rating of 121.4. That takes into account his efficiency as well as how involved he was in the game.

So how many performances of at least 21 attempts with a rating of 121.4 or better have occurred since 2008? 229.

QB record in such performances: 210-19, for a winning percentage of .917! It holds up over time, as well. I looked as far back as 1988 (that's the past 25 seasons) and in 849 such performances, QBs have a record of 772-77, which is a .909 winning percentage.

When quarterbacks pass as well as Flacco did yesterday, they win at least 9 out of 10 times.

Great stuff. I figured the percentages would be high, but those are even higher than I imagined.

In any event, see my response to bmorecareful's post (which I read and responded to before your above post because I check new posts backwards when I re-visit threads, lol) about whether Flacco should shoulder any blame. In short, not really.

[leachisabeast]

I have been hard on Flacco recently, but I still think he's our guy, we just need to put him in better position than we have this year. I think he doesn't have the greatest IQ and maybe never will, one of the downsides of drafting a small school player for a position like QB.

[JohnBKistler]

I have been hard on Flacco recently, but I still think he's our guy, we just need to put him in better position than we have this year. I think he doesn't have the greatest IQ and maybe never will, one of the downsides of drafting a small school player for a position like QB.

Yeah, that really back-fired on the Steelers.

[leachisabeast]

Yeah, that really back-fired on the Steelers.

Ben came from a small school, but it wasn't Delaware. Miami of Ohio would crush Delaware any day of the week.

And just because I said that, I didn't apply to to EVERY QB coming from small schools, just most. History does not lie that most of the greats came from big time colleges. Besides, it's not like Ben has the greatest of IQs him self, if it wasn't for his pocket poise, and ability to extend plays/get out of the pocket, he wouldn't be all that great. He makes some TERRIBLE decisions at times.

[JohnBKistler]

Ben came from a small school, but it wasn't Delaware. Miami of Ohio would crush Delaware any day of the week.

And just because I said that, I didn't apply to to EVERY QB coming from small schools, just most. History does not lie that most of the greats came from big time colleges. Besides, it's not like Ben has the greatest of IQs him self, if it wasn't for his pocket poise, and ability to extend plays/get out of the pocket, he wouldn't be all that great. He makes some TERRIBLE decisions at times.

Ok...fair enough. I just don't think school size pre-determines how a QB will play in the NFL. Maybe Kurt Warner is the better example?

[leachisabeast]

Ok...fair enough. I just don't think school size pre-determines how a QB will play in the NFL. Maybe Kurt Warner is the better example?

I wouldn't at all say that it pre determines anything, but there is a reason why they are playing for small schools and not a bigger school like Georgia or Bama. They are raw players normally that are drafted because of their physical tools and gifts, they have to be really stand out players to be drafted, let alone first round picks. Flacco and Ben were drafted for their size and physical tools, but it really is no surprise that both of them make some despicable mistakes that you wouldn't see a Matthew Stafford doing normally. That's not saying that Stafford is better than Ben or even Joe, Ben is clearly the better QB. But you have to think that Stafford came into the league much more refined with much better coaching than what Ben or Joe had where they came from.

And on Kurt Warner, it took him a while, don't forget that he had to go through Europe before he became a star.

[webbrick2007]

I agree people see what confirms their bias. He was in the process of throwing the ball when he was hit. It wasn't a fumble recovery, it was a forward pass that was deflected and then caught. Getting hit while throwing took all the steam out of the ball.

Okay, well this is much more critical of Joe than my assessment. You maintain that he saw the blitz but stubbornly continued with the play call getting hit and intercepted in the red zone. I was willing to go with him being unaware... you maintain that he just had really bad judgement.

[JohnBKistler]

I was willing to go with him being unaware... you maintain that he just had really bad judgement.

I can't say Flacco has bad judgement (I have seen bad judgement in a QB: Vinny Testeverde, come on down!!). I do think he just processes things slowly and reacts slowly to what he reads. Given more time, he probably would make more plays.

[RavenMan]

Okay, well this is much more critical of Joe than my assessment. You maintain that he saw the blitz but stubbornly continued with the play call getting hit and intercepted in the red zone. I was willing to go with him being unaware... you maintain that he just had really bad judgement.

Perhaps there is a misunderstanding, bacchys was replying to my post where I beleive what you said was that he never saw the guy coming at him and just stood there and got hit when in fact he slid to the left a bit and then made the poor decision to try and trhow it. If you meant that he did not see that rusher lined up before the snap then I apologize and that is certainly a debatable item.

It is fair to critcize Joe like the throw he tried in this instance but sometimes I think people see one bad pass and think every pass was bad or that one sack which must mean that he was like that the whole game and never tried to escape or throw the ball away or something. Like last game against the Steelers, there was the bad underthrow so many only remembered that and thought all the deep balls were like that when in fact most were on target and at least catchable if not great throws. Film came out last week and said this himself.

Criticize Joe when he deserves it but don't make crap up that didn't happen just because you were so upset over that one play.

[RavenMan]

I can't say Flacco has bad judgement (I have seen bad judgement in a QB: Vinny Testeverde, come on down!!). I do think he just processes things slowly and reacts slowly to what he reads. Given more time, he probably would make more plays.

Disagree, he has made those quick throws when they do them and quick decisions but when in the turtle mode, what I call Cam going back to his bread and butter in the Coryell, he has to wait 3 to 5 seconds and many times these were just not open and so it looks like he is what are all the cliches? Deer in headlights, daydreaming, slow Joe, head somewhere else, etc. if he really could not read defenses that well then they would be more likely to fool him and he would throw more picks. Not saying he never makes bad decisions or that he never gets flustered, I think the whole system flustered him at times.

Now with Cam gone we shall see if this is true

[Bazooka Joe]

I can't take seriously a thread that calls flacco a statue and yet questions Joes IQ.


its time to design an offense to Flaccos strengths. he is a winning QB. tony may not value winning as a measure of greatness but winning is the bottomline.

[PerpetuallyBored74]

The sack strips increasing this year are a result of a couple of things. One as you mentioned the deep routes. The oline is really bad on the edges this year as Osmele and Oher are worse than McKinnie and Oher from last year. The regression of the middle of the Oline. He rarely has a clean pocket to step up in. He has also held the ball longer than he should waiting for receivers to get open. With the defense playing poorly I think he is putting more pressure on himself to make something happen. He also needs to step up and get rid of it quicker. The fumble yesterday he should have stepped up in the pocket. Oher got beat pretty badly but if Joe had stepped up he may have been able to get rid of the ball. It was a straightline to him once the End got around Oher rather than having to curl back in to get him.

You can add 2 more things to your list: that with Cam constantly sending our WRs on the same 4 routes, especially deep and out, that the opposing D's began to anticipate and sit on those routes, forcing Joe to hold on to the ball longer waiting for his WRs as they struggled to get any seperation.

Also our WRs inability to beat man to man press coverage for the past couple of seasons, meant Joe had to wait while the WRs fought just to get off the line and into their routes.

Face it, given how makeshift our O-Line has been for 3 seasons due to injuries and guys leaving for other teams, Cam's approach, both with his play design and play calling made absolutely no sense, literally defying any rational explanation beyond Cam's unrequited love for the long ball.

Which is why many of us have been repeating this mantra for several years now: CAM MUST GO.

And now he finally has.

Let's see what happens next.

[Corey]

He did run the ball yesterday, on 3rd and 6 in OT, right before we punted the game away. He got 3 yards after scrambling for several seconds to find an open receiver--which there wasn't. Go and check the game thread for how people felt about that. Here's a hint: they didn't like it, even though they asked for it (as you're asking for it) last week. Can't please some people.

Then go back and watch the 2nd TD to Boldin, or the TD to Pitta. Watch Joe slide around in the pocket and buy time, then tell me he can't do those things. It's getting very hard to listen to people bitch about the same things week after week.

I don't have the "true" answer for why Joe can do these things sometimes but not others, but I have a theory supported by evidence: when Joe is comfortable in the offense, his pocket presence, awareness, and mechanics (really his overall QB play) are substantially better than when he is NOT comfortable. Just an FYI, that's true for EVERY QB in the league.

The question then becomes, when is Joe comfortable? When he's running the no huddle, throwing quick patterns over the middle, and generally operating a modern offense. We don't do that all that much under Cam.

[redmike34]

Although Joe had a 120+ rating yesterday, RGIII's rating was higher. I would wager that in all (or most) of the games you looked at, the winning QB simply had the higher rating, and it's quite rare to have a game where BOTH QB's have such a good rating.

Back about week 6, I was trying to prove a point to someone, so I went through all the games in the season to that point to check on exactly that. At that point, through 91 games played, 15 games had been won by the team with the QB with the lower passer rating for the game.

Interestingly, two of them were Steelers games--Raiders and Titans. I could hardly help but snicker...

[BmoreBrawla]

And on Kurt Warner, it took him a while, don't forget that he had to go through Europe before he became a star.

Steve McNair another small school QB

[RavensRule21215]

You can add 2 more things to your list: that with Cam constantly sending our WRs on the same 4 routes, especially deep and out, that the opposing D's began to anticipate and sit on those routes, forcing Joe to hold on to the ball longer waiting for his WRs as they struggled to get any seperation.

Also our WRs inability to beat man to man press coverage for the past couple of seasons, meant Joe had to wait while the WRs fought just to get off the line and into their routes.

Face it, given how makeshift our O-Line has been for 3 seasons due to injuries and guys leaving for other teams, Cam's approach, both with his play design and play calling made absolutely no sense, literally defying any rational explanation beyond Cam's unrequited love for the long ball.

Which is why many of us have been repeating this mantra for several years now: CAM MUST GO.

And now he finally has.

Let's see what happens next.