Fire Cameron! Oh wait....

**esmd** · 12-16-2012, 06:18 PM

Cameron isn't perfect, but I think it's obvious now this team has issues that were beyond his control. The offensive line is shit. Flacco is an overall good QB who was shit today, and who isn't going to carry a team. He's not Peyton, Brady, or Ben and never will be. I'm not saying get rid of him, but they might want to keep options open.

This offseason they better makeover the o-line and maybe think about using a mid-round pick on a QB.

**FadeToBlack** · 12-16-2012, 06:20 PM

Joe Flacco is a much bigger reason this offense struggles than we previously wanted to admit. And it hurts to say that.

**StingerNLG** · 12-16-2012, 06:48 PM

Originally Posted by FadeToBlack

Joe Flacco is a much bigger reason this offense struggles than we previously wanted to admit. And it hurts to say that.

Yeah, all the success on the team is someone else's doing, while all the struggles are on Flacco. Flacco is the reason Rice isn't running well. Michael Oher is really a great LT. Flacco is the reason Oher sucks at that position.

Flacco is definitely struggling right now. No doubt about it. But to put the entire struggle of the offense squarely on him is once again a severe overreaction.

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**Bhcforlife** · 12-16-2012, 06:49 PM

I'm not one for excuses but you can't judge Flacco today without including the fact that the offensive line was a sieve. How many times was he hurried? I heard 15+ on the radio, not sure if that's official or not. There were times when he had about 1.5 seconds to throw the ball. No QB is going to succeed like that.

**RavenMan** · 12-16-2012, 06:54 PM

Originally Posted by Bhcforlife

I'm not one for excuses but you can't judge Flacco today without including the fact that the offensive line was a sieve. How many times was he hurried? I heard 15+ on the radio, not sure if that's official or not. There were times when he had about 1.5 seconds to throw the ball. No QB is going to succeed like that.

And I thought he still threw some niice balls even early in the 3rd when Denver was still playing usual defense, just penalties killed those drives and he even showed some pocket precenses, evading some rushers, just that pick, killed them all but the O line sucks and when they do, usually he does like most QBs do, hell Peyton did not look so hot in the begginning when the Ravens were gettign some pressure, they just could keep it up and Peyton became Peyton again.

Joe played bad but so did the O as a whole, hopefully some things were learned that will help next week.

And Dallas just beat Pittsburgh after a bad INT by Ben.

**Kevlar** · 12-16-2012, 06:59 PM

Denver is a pretty good team with a strong defense. Today would have happened with or without Cam. They are still using Cam's playbook. It will take a while to undo all of Cam's damage.

**Corey** · 12-16-2012, 07:04 PM

Originally Posted by StingerNLG

Yeah, all the success on the team is someone else's doing, while all the struggles are on Flacco. Flacco is the reason Rice isn't running well. Michael Oher is really a great LT. Flacco is the reason Oher sucks at that position.

Flacco is definitely struggling right now. No doubt about it. But to put the entire struggle of the offense squarely on him is once again a severe overreaction.

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So, your still in denial that Flacco might be a part of the problem? With just one week for Caldwell to put his stamp on the O, I don't think you can make that declaration just yet but you gotta admit Flacco is running out of excuses. First it was the wr's suck. We go out add a bunch of speed and young talent for him to grow with it. Then it was Cam sucks. Well Cam is gone. Now it's the OL sucks. It's never Flacco just isn't what we thought he could be.

**Ravenswintitle** · 12-16-2012, 07:12 PM

Did the team just fire the best coach on the payroll? Time will tell

**ravensnhokies** · 12-16-2012, 07:13 PM

You must unlearn what you have learned....

Gonna take some time to fully extricate Cam from this offense and Joe. Problem is Joe only knows Cam and figured out how to be pretty successful under that strict system. He may take a step back if he wants to take two steps forward.

**Kevlar** · 12-16-2012, 07:15 PM

Originally Posted by Ravenswintitle

Did the team just fire the best coach on the payroll? Time will tell

I bet his phone is ringing off the hook with job offers. Miami at the head of the line...

**Raveninwoodlawn** · 12-16-2012, 07:17 PM

Joe was directly responsible for a huge change in momentum and gave the other team 7 points. A play that cannot possibly be blamed on anyone else.

He also started the game off on a horrible fumble after he got the first down on the sneak.

You can't blame an entire game on 2 plays, but handing the ball to Peyton Manning at midfield on an unforced error...and having an unforced error that resulted in a 14 point swing cannot be ignored.

I know it sucks to put a lot of blame on him, but he is the Quarterback and the most important player on the field and the most influential guy in regards of success or failure.

Joe gets a ton of credit when he is out there and everybody else is on top of their game. He will also get a ton of blame when things are crashing around him. It's the same with every QB out there.

**purplepoe** · 12-16-2012, 07:17 PM

Originally Posted by ravensnhokies

You must unlearn what you have learned....

Gonna take some time to fully extricate Cam from this offense and Joe. Problem is Joe only knows Cam and figured out how to be pretty successful under that strict system. He may take a step back if he wants to take two steps forward.

When exactly is Joe Flacco gonna be on the hook for Joe Flacco?

My goodness.

PP

**Beerracuda** · 12-16-2012, 07:18 PM

Why is it that some people give one guy 5 years to judge his results, yet the next guy up only gets 5 DAYS before judgement is made?

Good lord people, give it a rest.

**Paintballguy** · 12-16-2012, 07:21 PM

Please cam was a jackass he needed to go.

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**kojo** · 12-16-2012, 07:33 PM

it really shouldn't take much time really to "un-do" anything Cam did. The problem with Cam according to most people was him not calling the right plays at the right time or not making proper quarterly/half adjustments (i.e: use more Rice in the 4th quarter when you have a 10 point lead).

**wickedsolo** · 12-16-2012, 07:57 PM

Originally Posted by Corey

So, your still in denial that Flacco might be a part of the problem? With just one week for Caldwell to put his stamp on the O, I don't think you can make that declaration just yet but you gotta admit Flacco is running out of excuses. First it was the wr's suck. We go out add a bunch of speed and young talent for him to grow with it. Then it was Cam sucks. Well Cam is gone. Now it's the OL sucks. It's never Flacco just isn't what we thought he could be.

Yea...that crop of talented and speedy receivers has been really impressive...

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**Corey** · 12-16-2012, 07:59 PM

Originally Posted by wickedsolo

Yea...that crop of talented and speedy receivers has been really impressive...

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They have had their moments. Like our elite QB.

**bmorecareful** · 12-16-2012, 08:17 PM

Cam Cameron was a bad OC. No clue what to say about Caldwell at this point overall, but this was one of the Ravens' better called offensive game plans, no doubt. Caldwell appears to already be an improvement over Cam in terms of play design.

Nobody but Joe Flacco caused Joe Flacco to fumble on the QB sneak and throw the worst pass of the year on the pick-6. Those were entirely his fault. He also had a number of simply bad throws today, catastrophically bad throws...

I think I still put the blame primarily on the OL for the loss, but Flacco shook my faith terribly today even taking into consideration how poor the OL played.

**redmike34** · 12-16-2012, 08:26 PM

Bottom line--one clear commonality between all three of these losses. Two Flacco turnovers, at least one of which in each game was crucial for the opponent's chances to win.

For those of you blaming the O-line... consider that the line is what the line is. A QB is paid megabucks in the NFL for, among other things, understanding the strengths and weaknesses of the offense he is employing, and to mitigate the weaknesses while exploiting the strengths. I have seen very few indications that Flacco is very good at the 'mitigating the weakness' part. In fact, I frequently think that he is expecting things from his O-line which he should understand (since most of us do) that it is not capable of.

I think Flacco is a decent QB, and I don't have a problem if the Ravens keep him... at the right price. And in the right sort of environment.

**Cj34** · 12-16-2012, 08:31 PM

You can question the timing of Cameron being fired but not the actual act. It should have been done two years ago. IMO Cam was definitely a big part of the problem. Now that doesn't mean Joe isn't a big part as well but you need to give more then 1 game in the exact same offense to completely evaluate him. If he doesn't show more consistency and improvement next year in a different offense then I'll 100% agree with the naysayers. Until then I'm willing to give him and the Ravens the benefit of the doubt. As much as it will set the Ravens back by going with Joe for another year if he's bad in another system, it will be MUCH worse if they let him go and Joe does well on another team.